U of Mich or GVSU for pre-med?

College Search & Selection
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<p>This may sound like a ridiculous question at first, but let me explain. I'm currently a senior and I'm going to college to get into medical school. Both schools have around the same medical school acceptance rate. Obviously premeds at UM get the advantage for getting into their own med school, but GVSU has an agreement with MSU for essentially the same thing. I will also be in the honors college at Grand Valley, which has somewhere around 90% acceptance to med school. Anyone can really have a nearly 100% of getting into a med school from any college if he or she know what to do, so it doesn't really matter anyway. Grand Valley also has an actual pre-med program.</p>

<p>GVSU also will be significantly cheaper. Besides UM costing about $4000 more a year for housing and tuition, I will get between $5000-11000 a year at GV in scholarships, where I will only get about $1500 a year from UMich.</p>

<p>I also like Grand Valley's campus better because it isn't spread out or in a city. The community seems better out west as well. (There are a lot of hippies here in Ann Arbor). I'll get to live in some fancy apartments that are literally in the same building as a lot of my classes, while at UM I'll be in a dorm and probably have to take a bus all over town and deal with traffic for at least some classes.</p>

<p>Really the only benefits for me at U of M that I can think of are the research and the name.</p>

<p>So should I go to UM because that's where my friends are going?
From what I can tell, GVSU will be cheaper, more enjoyable, and has the same chance of getting me into med school.
Am I missing something?</p>

2

<p>Your friends are going to Michigan, but you will enjoy GVSU better? With friends like these, who needs enemies eh?! ;)</p>

<p>Conventional wisdom would suggest that if you really want to go to medical school, it does not matter where you go to college. As such, attending the cheaper university makes better sense, particularly given the high cost of attending medical school. If it so happens that you actually prefer attending the more affordable option, in this case, GVSU, all the better.</p>

<p>However, I would consider several other criteria, some of which you touched on:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>How confident are you of your desire to become a physician? Many high school seniors enter college with the ambition of becoming doctors, but a very significant percentage of “premeds” do not follow through and opt for alternative career paths. If you decide to follow through with medical school, where you go to college probably won’t play a huge part in your chances of success. However, If you choose to pursue a non-medical career path, the reputation and quality of your undergraduate institution could play a role early on in your career. In this regard, Michigan is a more versatile option than GVSU.</p></li>
<li><p>Research and internship opportunities. Medical schools value applicants who have actively sought out, and participated in, medical/biological research and internships. As you admittedly pointed out, Michigan has a clear advantage in this domain. </p></li>
<li><p>Michigan’s student body will likely be more diverse and liberal than GVSU’s. I am not sure how that’s a bad thing, but it is something to consider. Last time I checked, and that was some time ago I must confess, 90% of GVSU students came from Michigan, and 99% came from the midwest. Only 1% of undergrads came from other parts of the country and from overseas. Having just ±100 undergrads from non-midwestern states and ±200 undergrads from international countries is pretty limited. At Michigan, over 20% (6,000 undergrads) come from non-midwestern states and 7% (1,900 undergrads) are international.</p></li>
<li><p>Resources and opportunities. I am not sure how this will manifest itself in a practical sense, but Michigan receives more money from the state and has an endowment 100 times larger than GVSU. Michigan’s endowment stands at $7.6 billion, while GVSU’s stands at $75 billion. Given the significant difference in resources, it is likely that undergrads at Michigan will have far more opportunities and options than undergrads at GVSU.</p></li>
<li><p>“Intellectual fit”. You seem to think that Michigan students are a little too liberal for your taste. That may be the case, although as a conservative catholic myself, I never found that to be a problem when I was on campus, and I doubt Michigan has become more liberal in the past 15 years. However, you may want to consider intellectual fit as well. A small difference in the quality of the student body between two universities does not warrant concern. The typical freshman at Michigan will likely have taken many AP courses in high school, will probably have maintained a 3.8 unweighed GPA, and will average a 30 on the ACT. A slightly stronger or weaker freshman class at another university is not a cause for concern. However, a significant difference is worth noting. I have not looked at the latest GVSU figures, but a when I did look at them a couple of years ago, the average ACT core for the freshman class was in the 23 range. The difference between 23 and 30 is significant. Will you find your peers at GVSU sufficiently stimulating intellectually, even if they meet your conservative social standards?</p></li>
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<p>Overall, I do not think that GVSU and Michigan are comparable. GVSU is a good university, but it is not on par with Michigan. If cost of attendance is an important factor, and if you are 100% certain that you wish to become a doctor, GVSU sounds like a very good deal. Otherwise, I think Michigan is a better option.</p>

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<p>Hahah yea I was just saying I don’t want to choose a college purely because I know people there, like some people I know.
For the first, I am sure I want to be a physician and definitely something in the medical field. I feel like my alternatives for this at GVSU are still pretty solid, as GVSU supposedly supplies the most healthcare professionals in the state.
For the 2nd point, I could be wrong, but would medical schools care that your school’s research isn’t as well-funded and well-known? I though it was mainly the personal effort that mattered the most.
The thing that sometimes bothers me about UM is the very strong focus on being diverse. It’s not a bad thing, but I know so many, in my opinion, unqualified people that got in just because they were “different.” I honestly might prefer being around all-midwest people, like at my high school.
The 5th point was pretty good. It may be kinda strange being around people with an average of 12 less on the ACT, but hopefully it will be closer at the honors college, which has a minimum of 28. </p>

<p>Thanks for your detailed response.</p>

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<p>The average ACT is 24 at GVSU and might even be higher next year, but I thought UMich had an average ACT of 29 not 30? MSU is around a 25 or so. Anyway, it comes down to fit. I will say this, UMich premed is a grind to say the least. If you can get through the UMich premed classes with a good GPA then you’ll probably get into medical school, but that’s a big if. Also, you’re an instate student hoboslayr so you’ll be competing with top kids from out of state at UMich for top grades in classes. Also, there is plenty of medical research and opportunities at GVSU, especially in downtown Grand Rapids on the “Medical Mile”. Also, cost sounds like an issue to you. Chances are you will receive a lot of scholarship money from GVSU, and chances are nothing from UMich. Now I’m not going to say GVSU is better than Michigan, because that would be a faulty assumption, but I think either school is a good choice. UMich does have a lot more of a name recognition but will cost a lot more money and it will be harder to get into med school from the University of Michigan premed classes than GVSU.</p>

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<p>Michigan’s mean ACT was 30 for the 2011 freshman class and for the 2012 freshman class. With a 15%-20% increase in applicants this year, the upcoming Freshman class mean ACT could be 31.</p>

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<p>Michigan’s 2012-2013 Common Data Set shows 58.4% of entering freshmen submitting ACT scores were in the 30-36 composite range. That’s up from 54% in 2011-2012 and 50.4% in 2010-2011. The Common Data Set doesn’t show average ACT scores, but given that trajectory it’s a safe bet the average (mean) score is now up to 30; perhaps more relevant, a clear majority of the entering class will have ACT scores of 30 or higher. In any event, there’s no question your classmates will be stronger at Michigan, which has both advantages and disadvantages, I suppose.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t advise someone to attend a weaker school in order to enhance their chances of a GPA that will get them into medical school, though. Most college students change majors at least once, and I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if that figure was even higher for pre-meds. I seem to remember a dramatic shrinkage in the fraction of my classmates who intended to be doctors as college wore on. A lot of them never made it past organic chemistry. So where does it leave you if you go to GVSU and then decide you don’t want to go to medical school after all? I think you’re better off at the stronger school, which without question is Michigan.</p>

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<p>Yeah I’m not considering GVSU just for the easier grades. I feel like since I will be dedicated to pre-med, it won’t matter where I go very much. If I end up not trying in a class or something, I’ll have much fewer options at Grand Valley, but that will hopefully give me motivation because I can’t see myself doing anything other major. I’ve taken a lot of difficult classes and test well, so I should be good. I heard GVSU was tied with and passing MSU in terms of admissions.</p>

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<p>Hoboslayr the fact of the matter is you should be the one choosing the school and finding the best fit, and not letting random people on the internet influence your decision too much. If the best fit is UMich and you want the UMich name and prestige go there. If you want smaller class sizes and a more undergraduate focused school and feel like you fit into GV more, go there.</p>

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<p>I agree with gvnee89, well, not about GVSU having smaller classes, but with the importance of fit. However, fit should only be one of the factors. Cost of attendance, intellectual and academic compatibility and degree potency should also be considered. GVSU has the advantage in the former two, but seriously trails Michigan in the latter two.</p>

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<p>On another note Alexandre, do you know how many applicants applied to UMich this year, including regular decision? I am curious because UMich admissions affects both MSU and GVSU and even other colleges in Michigan.</p>

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<p>gvnee89, Michigan will likely receive 48,000-50,000 applications this year. However, it should be noted that the increase in Michigan’s applicant pool is primarily a result of more international and OOS applicants. I do not think it will affect admissions at other colleges in Michigan.</p>

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<p>While I agree the increase in apps is probably OOS students and internationals, I’m pretty sure UMich is decreasing the percentage of in state students in their freshmen class. I looked it up and UMich had 5% less in state students from 2011 to 2012. Do you think the percentage of in state students will go down even more for 2013?</p>

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<p>That is correct gvnee89. I am not sure if Michigan intends to reduce the ratio of in-state students further, and if so, by how much. I assume that last year’s drop was the first of several, but that is entirely speculative.</p>

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<p>The population of the state of Michigan is stagnant or even declining slightly, and the state’s population is aging, which inevitably means the in-state college applicant pool is shrinking. My guess is the percentage of in-state students in the University of Michigan’s student body will continue to decline at a relatively slow, steady pace. I can’t see the university sacrificing its admissions standards to maintain a fixed percentage of in-state students in the student body–especially not at a time when it it’s more popular than ever among OOS and international applicants.</p>

<p>Interestingly, this doesn’t seem to be provoking the same kind of political backlash some other public universities have experienced when increasing their percentage of OOS and international students.</p>

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<p>bclintonk, Michigan has not increased its international students intake. Internationals have always made up 5%-7% of the undergraduate student population, and so it remains. That is, surprisingly, one of the lowest percentages among Big 10 schools. Northwestern also has a lower international student ratio (5%-6%) among Big 10 schools. At most other Big 10 schools, international students represent 8%-15% of the undergraduate student body.</p>

<p>I think the reason why there has not been too great a political backlash in the case of Michigan, in addition to the state’s declining population and increasing OOS/international applicant numbers relative to the total applicant pool, is because of the declining funding the University has received over the years. I do not think the state can expect the University to enrol as high a ratio of in-state students while decreasing state funding on an annual basis.</p>

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<p>Totally agree on this. I think most state legislators know they’ve been cutting appropriations to the University for years, and they know their constituents are getting a phenomenal bargain insofar as the value of the University’s tuition discounts for Michigan residents far exceeds what the state contributes in legislative appropriations. Also, it’s in the state’s interest to have the University be as financially self-sufficient as it can be at this point, and if that requires a high OOS enrollment, so be it.</p>