<p>BBD</p>
<p>Here is the technical report which includes methodologies for 2006 which was utilised in the 2009 test.</p>
<p>[PISA</a> 2006 Technical Report](<a href=“http://www.pisa.oecd.org/document/41/0,3343,en_32252351_32236191_42025897_1_1_1_1,00.html]PISA”>http://www.pisa.oecd.org/document/41/0,3343,en_32252351_32236191_42025897_1_1_1_1,00.html)</p>
<p>mommathree</p>
<p>No one is slating the US university system.
A US degree from a US university is as good as it gets.</p>
<p>The issue that the PISA tests demonstrate is whether current and future US high school graduates will be able to compete with foreign students with better academic skills for those US university placements.</p>
<p>If US students cannot compete against the ever increasing pool of foreign candidates…who do you think will be taking all those GREAT US university placements?</p>
<p>You think the University’s will turn away the best candidates who can afford the fees?
US college education is a meritocracy correct?
In a global market for university education right?</p>
<p>What happens when US high school students can no long compete successfully for those US university slots??</p>
<p>Mommathree…you are kidding right?</p>
<p>…“but I am sure if we were able to exclude all of the children who are very poor, those who don’t care about education, have learning disabilities, ADHD affecting the learning and the numerous other disabilties that effect test scores we would be alot closer to the Chinese stardard of excellence than many would like to think.”</p>
<p>Forget China for a moment…(the US didn’t even crack the top 10 in any discipline so you are deluding yourself if you think China is the problem, hell the US didn’t even beat Poland, Estonia or Slovakia )…but anyway:</p>
<p>You think there is no poverty in the traditional OECD countries?
No learning disabilities?
No disinterested uncaring parents?</p>
<p>You think American Exceptionalism extends to idea that the US has ‘exceptional’ or unique problems as well?</p>
<p>I hope you are not serious.</p>
<p>Yes if all the test countries could remove all the poor, stupid, challenged, and disinterested students, and only test their best and brightest, then the results would indeed be very different.</p>
<p>But then that would be the International Schools Olympiad rather than a snapshot of how US students, in general, compared with their peers in the OECD</p>
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<p>I don’t know if you’re another symptom of a crumbling high school system but NOBODY was talking about universities going down - it’s the high school system. In any case, having 50 or so magnet universities out of a few thousand isn’t very impressive either. You also seem unable to grasp the fact that the best international students only go to the same few top universities, and avoid the average ones like the plague.</p>
<p>Just curious - why isn’t anyone defending the other countries that are ranked similarly to the US? Why isn’t anyone in denial about it? Finland dropped from first place in one of the categories and they’re not making excuses but doing some soul searching to find out what went wrong. Perhaps they recognize that rankings don’t suddenly become horrendously flawed just because their ego is bruised.</p>
<p>Because the rankings are not “flawed”; they’re just comparing apples to oranges. Finland has a lower poverty rate, and a much more comprehensive social services system. To compare the US system, with its highly divided social economic strata coupled with its spotty social services (more uneven school systems, holes in the medical system, much shorter maternity leaves, uneven availability of quality daycare etc) with Finland’s or other countries where the frontier, individualist, sink-or-swim US ethos does not exist tells you a lot about our country on average, but little about our schools.</p>
<p>Does anyone know who in the US takes the PISA test? I live in NJ and have never heard of it being administered? How do they decide who takes it? Brooklynborndad from VA have you heard of it? Anyone from Mass or Vermont? Just Curious? Knowing alittle about the demographics of the population of students who took it would help to assess which of the comments rendered in this lively discussion are most relevant. Maybe the underfunded slackers from the city were not even included. (Just kidding)</p>
<p>…“Because the rankings are not “flawed”; they’re just comparing apples to oranges”.</p>
<p>Yes…I’m sure that PISA spend years compiling data and formulating tests so to provide a comprehensive statistical result, all at the behest of the OECD rich club of nations mind you, because it will be nonsense as it compares apples and oranges.</p>
<p>…Might as well dig a bigger whole in the sand than the one your head is in and jump right on in.</p>
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<p>why do you keep making up excuses? you speak as if other countries don’t face their fair share of problems, and you’re doing their high school systems a great injustice at the same time. also, nothing changes the results - nothing changes the mediocrity that a large proportion of the next generation is heading towards, whether the problems are endogenous or exogenous. and the problems will not simply be explained away.</p>
<p>Lacontra… The students that I mentioned would not even be enrolled in the Chinese educational system. There stats are high because they are getting the test results from those who are considered bright enough and wealthy enough to attend K-12 in China.</p>
<p>We have a far higher proportion of black and Hispanic students than any country ranked above us.</p>
<p>That’s the answer.</p>
<p>I guess the U.S. is the only country in the world with underperforming minorities.</p>
<p>Students in shanghai are almost the best in China. Students in USA should be compared with students in China not just Shanghai China. I know it is sometimes difficult to get data in other part of China. This is very misleading. Does HYP represent college education in USA overall?</p>
<p>I agree I’ve never taken it either.</p>
<p>If comparing to the Chinese is unfair how do we do against the rest of the world?
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<p>What about individual states against the rest of the world?
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<p>Unfortunately, that does not account for the difference.<br>
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Well, then let us compare apples to apples. What about comparing Chinese students from Shanghai to US students with a college educated parent? That is the top 20%, so they should do well! Sadly, still no difference!.</p>
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<p>The conclusions from a recent report by the Harvard Program on Education Policy and Governance are quite damning: our problem is not just with the low performing students, it is just as much with our high performing students which are also falling further and further behind those in other countries. The last time the US won the International Math Olympiad was 10 years ago, and it has not come close since. </p>
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<p>[Teaching</a> Math to the Talented : Education Next](<a href=“http://educationnext.org/teaching-math-to-the-talented/]Teaching”>http://educationnext.org/teaching-math-to-the-talented/)</p>
<p>The coverage in the US is much better than China. Of course the elite students in China are better than the average American student. There are tons of rural families in China who can’t even afford primary school. I bet those “students” weren’t included. </p>
<p>The data is suspect or biased.</p>
<p>Also, the marginal value of additional education diminishes. Understanding calculus in grade 10 will obviously give a better PISA score. How much better will it help a person make money? How much better will it help a person travel the world? </p>
<p>I wouldn’t care about the results. Education is determined by the free market. People do the CFA because they need it for finance jobs not because they like to do it. If we need jobs that require skills then people will get them.</p>
<p>Quote:
Unfortunately, the United States trails other industrialized countries in bringing a large proportion of its students up to the highest levels of accomplishment. This is not a story of some states doing well but being dragged down by states that perform poorly. Nor is it a story of immigrant or disadvantaged or minority students hiding the strong performance of better-prepared students. Comparatively small percentages of white students are high achievers. Only a small proportion of the children of our college-educated population is equipped to compete with students in a majority of OECD countries. </p>
<p>Major policy initiatives within the United States have in recent years focused on the educational needs of low-performing students. Such efforts deserve commendation, but they can leave the impression that there is no similar need to enhance the education of those students the STEM coalition has called the best and brightest. Yet, with rapidly advancing technologies in an increasingly integrated world economy, no one doubts the extraordinary importance of highly accomplished professionals.</p>
<p>Right on here. At a small high school (~100 students per graduating class), only certain classes are offered. I don’t want to sound full off myself, but with the exception of AP Calculus, I’m wasting my senior year. I had enough credits to graduate at the end of last year, and I’m out of options for AP classes this year. There are many other students in this position, with their senior, and possibly junior, years of high school wasted because of lack of quality classes made for the “best and brightest”</p>
<p>I think the problem is the teachers. In college, students rate and evaluate professors based on their teaching skills. Based on these evaluations, they can be promoted, receive a raise, ect. This provides an incentive for professors to teach their subjects well. In elementary/middle/high school there is no such incentive. I believe that if you provide some incentive for teachers they will become better at their jobs and the students will learn more.</p>
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<p>Why? Because you don’t like the results? Before calling a large controlled study, generally recognized as authoritative by nearly all educators and governments, I would suggest you read it before making uninformed comments. </p>
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<p>Actually, over 99% of Chinese children complete their primary education.</p>
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<p>While the PISA study was mostly restricted to Shanghai, the OECD did also look at some rural areas in China, and the level of performance was not markedly different from that of Shanghai. So, not only is the average in the US significantly lower than average in China but the US average is also lower than in virtually every other developed country. </p>
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PISA is given to mostly 15 year olds and there is no calculus involved. It is actually very much problem solving skills that are being tested as opposed to rote learning. </p>
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I would think that reading, writing and problem solving are pretty essential skills. You can’t become an engineer, scientist or even accountant if you don’t have strong math skills.</p>
<p>This study seems sketchy at best. I think I’ll just take it all with a small grain of salt.</p>