UA Expansion Efforts: Good or Bad?

@beaudreau I got a graduate degree from TAMU. I love TAMU. We didn’t want to move away, but had to due to H’s plant closing. We were excited when TAMU joined the SEC. I get together with Aggies for some of the games when I am not watching DD in Million Dollar Band.

The problem is the list is for 50 schools/50 states. I don’t make the rules.

In AL, AU would be a strong second. University of South AL is coming up too, but may never be as comprehensive a University as UA and AU, but has some great professional programs including a medical school.

In TX, TAMU is larger now with UG than UT (by a lot). In the early 1980’s, TAMU supposedly didn’t hold a candle to UT with MBA program, but I knew by being there that TAMU had a quality program that just was under-rated to the school with more history with MBA.

I don’t defend the definition of flagship. I am just concluding from the article. and adding in what I know.

Texas (like CA) concentrates on educating the vast population within its state borders. Same is holding true from my home state and U of WI.

A lot of students do like to explore getting OOS - some want to mix with other students - so if they can pay the same or less than their in-state program, that is enticing.

@SOSConcern Howdy! :-bd

Well LOVE having TAMU in the SEC (UT-Austin, on the other hand, the Big 12 can keep…).

Some interesting facts, UT-Texas (system wide) has a $25 Billion endowment (2nd behind only Harvard), but TAMU(system wide) has an 11+ billion dollar endowment, greater than any other state flagship (U-M is 9+billion and UC(system wide) is 7+ billion). It has 47+K undergraduates students, and 15+ grad students.

In almost 40 states, it would be the flagship university.

@Gator88NE, those endowment figures look impressive; however, as you note they are system-wide therefore its a little misleading. A more relevant figure is the size of the endowment per student. My son recently attended a fly-in program at Swarthmore College, a small liberal arts school in Pennsylvania. Swarthmore’s total enrollment is only 1,534 students however the school has an impressive endowment of $1.877 billion. That translates into $1.215 million dollars per student. In comparison UT-Austin’s $25 billion endowment translates into $118,000 per student and A&M is $179,000 per student.

What can Swarthmore do with these kind of resources? Well, my son told me how the student he was matched with as his host told him that the school fully funds any resources that the students request from undergraduate research projects to what they describe as individual “creative projects”- in fact about 70% of the student body participate in these programs. Over 2/3 of the student body participate in study abroad which the college heavily subsidizes.

One of the areas that you really see how much a difference these funds can have is in the financial aid program. Swarthmorel meets 100% of the financial need of all students, with no-loans. The sticker price of the cost of attendance at Swarthmore is greater than $60,000 per year. The student host my son was matched with comes from a working class family in South Texas. He told my son that his family’s total out-of-pocket expense for him to attend Swarthmore was less than $10,000 a year. The remainder of his educational cost were being paid by institutional need-based grants with no-loans and none of it was merit aid. Even if he had stayed in-state to attend UT/TAMU and received need-based grants and some merit aid, its unlikely that his family’s net price would have been lower than going out of state to attend what U.S. News ranks as the #3 liberal arts school in the country. Moreover, the financial aid packages from UT/TAMU would have included subsidized student loans. (The sticker price for my son on the other hand would be almost $40,000 per year but the idea here is to make a college like Swarthmore a reality for any student regardless of their financial background.)

In short, the relevant number is not the total endowment but rather the endowment per student. Measured by that standard, A&M’s endowment is #38 in the nation and UT-Austin is #48. Among public institutions, both schools endowment dollars per student are still fairly impressive as they trail only Virginia and Michigan.

One last thing, most Texans perceive A&M to be a flagship school along the lines of UT-Austin. As I stated earlier, A&M is now the larger school measured by total student body, its campus is larger due to the roots of being an agricultural and mechanical school, and as Aggies are quick to remind Longhorns like myself, A&M is in fact older than UT-Austin. Its interesting however when I travel outside the state and people automatically assume that UT-Austin is “the” state flagship.

My son has pretty much narrowed his college choices down to UT, A&M or Bama. UT is naturally under consideration given the fact that my wife and I are alums. He’s been to Bama Honor’s College this summer and spent a week there with about 60 other students as guest of UA’s Honor’s College. He formed great bonds with several of those kids. Moreover, Bama has the most intriguing programs and with the Presidential Scholarship is actually going to be cheaper than either UT or TAMU. A&M is the closest school to us, about 1.5 hours drive away and to his surprise he enjoyed an overnight stay there during their National Scholar Invitational event. A&M offers its students the most unique collegiate experience of public school in America. The level of loyalty and reverence that the school has for tradition is unmatched anywhere. Moreover, the alumni network is pretty much legendary here in the state of Texas. As @SOSConcern has stated to me, they are all good choices with the exception being the current state of the UT men’s athletics department. No doubt Bama and A&M have the clear edge when it comes to that consideration.

@fatherof2boys, I actually live about 20 minutes from Swarthmore. The entire student body is under 1600 students, so it’s smaller than a lot of high schools. It is a fantastic, truly “elite” school and, depending upon one’s financial situation, could easily be among the most affordable options a student might have. (If you’re upper middle income, OTOH, it might not be!)

That being said, the atmosphere is more akin to the University of Chicago (“Where fun goes to die.”) than a big public university!

@LucieTheLakie, you are right it is very small, my son’s high school is larger than the overall student body.

It is certainly an “intensive academic” environment, the student who hosted my son told him that he was also accepted into Harvard and Yale but he chose Swarthmore because he likes the liberal arts model - believed that the professors were much more invested in undergraduate education.

I think its fantastic that schools like Swarthmore make college financially accessible to first-generation and low-income students. For these kids, gaining entrance to a school like that is a transformative experience for not only the students, but also for their entire family.

On the other hand, for me the $40,000 per year number generated by Swarthmore’s net price calculator pretty much eliminates them from consideration. (They are likely a reach anyway I was quite surprised my son was accepted into the fly-in program.) I have no problem however that the Ivies and the so-called Hidden Ivies like a Swarthmore do things like completely eliminate merit aid and make their grants need-based only. It makes the school too expensive for me; however, my son has had a lot of advantages throughout his life that his student host did not have even though they are both native Texans and students of color.

Finally, as you implied above, what’s the fun of college without the experience of college athletics and the other recreational activities that come along with being a student at a large public institution. I thoroughly enjoyed my undergraduate experience at a large flagship public school, wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world, even though my beloved Longhorns are struggling on the field now. :frowning:

I agree 100 percent.

That being said, I have friends who are Swarthmore grads and they had no desire for their son to go there because, while they loved the school and received topnotch educations there, it was much too intense an environment for their son. (He’s at another elite LAC – one in the South. :smiley: )

I also had a HS classmate who was admitted to Swarthmore and left after a year. (The school was just too liberal for his middle-class, conservative values.)

LACs are all about fit–get it right and you are set for four years; get it wrong, and you’re likely facing a very tough choice.

The nice thing about a large, public university is that you usually going to be able find students of every persuasion if you look hard enough. It may not be easy, but on a campus of 20,000+ students, there have to be at least a few you can relate to.

Yes, there are number of great LACs in the South, Davidson, University of Richmond (more of a LAC), Rhodes College, Millsaps and Sewanee: The University of the South (I just love that’s officially part of the college’s name) :smiley:

I agree with your statement about diversity, sometimes there is a group think mantra at some of the well-known LACs that can be intimidating to a certain viewpoint, the current debate on Wesleyan’s campus respecting the Argus is an example of that.

I think a lot of families who have talented kids (and the high academically talented kids) may not realize how to foster and develop their student through all the crucial years under their roof, because they are so busy earning a living, managing outside influences, perhaps heavily involved with multiple sports or other EC activities. Then their student is a HS Jr/Sr and their family and student may really be unprepared for the decisions and transition to college. Some parents have had their heads in the sand on how much college costs. Some students who would have been capable of scholarship level, either didn’t manage their GPA or get involved early enough with the standardized test taking and prepping for the testing.

Some leave too much to student w/o parent oversight on important things.

A student going off to school may ‘forget’ family values, may not have developed any internal motivation for the college studying rigor, may have too many distractions/partying choices and not keeping they eye on their goals. I have heard where some kids act like they are a fully independent adult except when it comes to money.

My student at UA grasped the message (via several different ways) that missing a class is actually having money spent and not using that resource. There were times when that was an extra push for her to get out of bed and go to class. Not missing class is also being a smart student, but the temptation is there to skip. She got a nice reward last semester when she had a A+ in a calc course and didn’t have to take the final - she got rewarded points for attending class.

Hopefully the students and parents on this thread are having success in ‘jumping through the hoops’ on all of this so that the stress level is more at a ‘calm’ level.

Great advice @SOSConcern, I envision I’m going to have to have send my son numerous texts to remind (harass) him about waking up and going to class. He will be taking about 30 hours of AP credits to Bama so hopefully that combined with priority registration through the Honors College will mean he can evade having to take an 8 AM or 9 AM introductory level course that’s offered throughout the day, including those dreaded early AM hours.

Even 9 am classes are early to some students, lol. The calc class was a 9 am class. When a kid likes to study late into the night…

@fatherof2boys - remember priority registration does not kick in until 2nd semester. He may still end up with early classes first semester, which is an adjustment period in itself!