UA Merit Money

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
101

<p>all of the above Universities (all state Flagships) are more selective, having a lower percentage of Low SES students and offer little in way of merit awards. Schools like these (and UGa and UF) don’t have to offer much merit to recruit high performing students, so are able to put more resources toward low SES students (but being more selective, there are fewer low SES students that need aid… the these low SES students all have high stats</p>

<p>Yes, and GA an FL have HOPE and Bright Futures (state sources of money) to help with “meeting need”. </p>

<p>If the state of Alabama were to have a lottery where funds go to a HOPE-like fund, then maybe that would take care of the situation.</p>

<p>and it frees up slots for OOS students</p>

<p>bama doesn’t need to “free up slots”…it has nearly doubled its enrollment numbers. the instate numbers haven’t fallen.</p>

<p>It doesn’t feel “fair” but all of the above state flagships are doing the same thing, but through selectivity (UW to a less extent). As UA’s standards increase, the same effect will take place.</p>

<p>Exactly…so it can be argued that their “need based aid” has a merit aspect to it. They’re not accepting low stats kids unless they’re athletes or have some other hook.</p>

102

<p>Ya know, UA COULD end this debate to a large degree by simply raising its standards even higher. Minimal standards of an ACT of 21 and a 3.0 GPA are not very rigorous. Ambitious low SES high school students can study for the ACT and improve their score. They can make sure to keep their GPA relatively high. You might say, “But that isn’t fair.” Well, what do you think the purposes of Jacksonville State, Troy State, Athens State, North Alabama, Alabama Stare are? Is is fair to let UA take most of the low SES kids with underwhelming ACTs? UA, a state flagship, admits far more low SES students than do most other state flagships. And their ACT scores are almost certainly much less than the average at other state flagships. I really don’t get the target UA seems to have on its back over this issue. If anything, UA needs to become even more selective. With its growth, I don’t see how it can’t become even more selective. This ups everyone’s game. Many people will do better to prepare if you expect them to. My lower middle income parents did not go to college, yet they helped me prepare, and I was able to get a partial tuition merit scholarship to attend UA. I think we should expect more from students. Set a higher standard for them to reach. But yes, help them meet that standard.</p>

103

<p>^^^Amen^^^</p>

104

<p>*Ya know, UA COULD end this debate to a large degree by simply raising its standards even higher. Minimal standards of an ACT of 21 and a 3.0 GPA are not very rigorous. Ambitious low SES high school students can study for the ACT and improve their score. They can make sure to keep their GPA relatively high. You might say, “But that isn’t fair.” Well, what do you think the purposes of Jacksonville State, Troy State, Athens State, North Alabama, Alabama Stare are? Is is fair to let UA take most of the low SES kids with underwhelming ACTs? UA, a state flagship, admits far more low SES students than do most other state flagships. And their ACT scores are almost certainly much less than the average at other state flagships. I really don’t get the target UA seems to have on its back over this issue. *</p>

<p>Exactly.</p>

<p>The idea of comparing Bama to UMich, UVA, and the UCs is ridiculous. You can’t even get into a UC without a 3.0 minimum. And, the UVA kids nearly all have strong SATs. </p>

<p>And all this talk about how much aid Bama gives or doesn’t give compared to these schools is ridiculous. Those other schools have much larger endowments, state aid to give, and essentially the money they ARE giving is merit-based since their student body has stronger stats. </p>

<p>If you looked at the CSU’s, and took away their state-funded Cal Grants, you’d see that those students would be getting fed aid only, too. They have COAs of $22k…once you subtract fed aid, a 0 EFC would be gapped $10k.</p>

105

<p>I don’t doubt that UA wants to raise its selectivity. However, it has reasons why it can’t raise it significantly (yet).</p>

<p>Assuming nothing out of the ordinary, UA projects how many students will accept (Yield) offers from the University. Based on the number of slots it has to fill, it adjust the selectivity to increase the percentage of students admitted. It then predicts the % that will enroll (Yield) to determine the size of its incoming freshman class. The universities are very good at making these projections. </p>

<p>Fall 2012 (45% In-state, 52% OOS)
Number of Applicants:
26,409
Percentage Admitted:
53%
Percentage enrolled (Yield):
46%</p>

<p>Total number enrolled = 26,409 X 53% X46% = 6,439 students</p>

<p>If UA increase selectivity, it would decrease the % admitted and if we keep Yield steady, it would reduce the number of students enrolled.</p>

<p>Total number enrolled = 26,409 X 50% (3% reduction) X 46% = 6,074 or a reduction of 365 students (that’s 182 empty dorm rooms!).</p>

<p>Of course, I’ve way simplified the process, but it makes the point that increasing selectivity, will decrease the number of enrolled students; this helps explain why yield (and the number of applicants) helps determine how selective the University can become. If you can increase yield (and/or the number of applicants), you can increase selectivity.</p>

<p>To tie this back to merit aid; merit aid would help yield, but the funding has to come from someplace (merit aid, I would think) which would negatively impact yield. At the same time, UA wants to recruit the best prepared group of students. Someone at UA is working through these scenarios and determining that the current merit/aid scheme is best. Increase merit, increases yield on high performing students (high or low SES), while increasing aid would increase yield on low SES students (low and high performing SES students). They decided to increase merit.</p>

<p>As selectively rises, financial aid starts to make more sense, as you start increasing yield on high performing SES students (and not on low performing SES students). That’s why, over time, with increasing selectivity, I expect more financial aid to be offered, and less merit.</p>

106

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</p>

<p>Then they must not be keeping their web sites or common data sets up to date.</p>

<p>[Common</a> Data Set: Institutional Assessment and Studies, University of Virginia](<a href=“http://web.virginia.edu/iaas/cds/Hfinancialaid.shtm]Common”>http://web.virginia.edu/iaas/cds/Hfinancialaid.shtm)
<a href=“Office of Budget and Planning”>Office of Budget and Planning;

107

<p>Yup. You did a nice job explaining it. But it’s common sense. The better a school’s reputation the less merit aid they need to give. They no longer need to give incentives to attract great students because they will have a surplus of great students applying. This will take time. But my guess is UA admissions will look very different in twenty years. Much less broad merit aid. They will probably have 50 or so full ride packages to attract tippy top students. The rest will be FA.</p>

108

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<p>Washington and several of the UCs have percentages of Pell grant students in the 37% or higher range, while Alabama has only 24%.</p>

<p>[Economic</a> Diversity | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity/spp%2B50/page+4]Economic”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity/spp%2B50/page+4)
[Economic</a> Diversity | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity/spp%2B50/page+2]Economic”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity/spp%2B50/page+2)</p>

109

<p>Again…it’s easy to help meet need for Pell students when they’re ALSO getting big state grants. </p>

<p>:rolleyes:</p>

110

<p>I can confirm that applicants to the University of Virginia seeking financial aid must fill out the CSS Profile – did that back in January of this year.</p>

111

<p>If the state of Alabama would allow a lottery like Tenn and Georgia do, then it could fund a HOPE program as well. That would go a long way towards helping meet need. A HOPE grant that covers most/all tuition, a Pell Grant and other fed aid would provide a lot of dollars for a 0 EFC student.</p>

112

<p>Theoretically, can’t a school keep the same amount of merit money but just raise the requirements as the school gets better, eventually ending in being a top 10?</p>

113

<p>Of course UA isn’t the only state school offering automatic full ride/full tuition merit for stats: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16145676-post285.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16145676-post285.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Though on CC it seems to be by far the most popular one.</p>

114

<p>Gator, you used this year’s enrollment numbers. Last fall, UA enrolled 42 fewer students and we aren’t sure how many applications were received for this fall, but it was likely greater than last year. You weren’t far off, but just thought I would share this info. Thanks for breaking down the admission calculus for us!</p>

115

<p>* I expect more financial aid to be offered, and less merit.*</p>

<p>I don’t know about that. FA at publics tends to be limited to instate students only. Bama needs those OOS students to “fill the seats”. Yes, most OOS students aren’t getting the big merit, but Bama also needs those OOS high stats students as well. The state doesn’t have the population numbers to fill 30,000 undergrad seats.</p>

116

<p>@Edjumacation, UA can’t raise requirements, without increasing Yield (% that enroll after being accepted from UA) or the number of qualified applicants. Merit helps raise the number of qualified applicants and Yield. If you can’t raise the number of qualified students applying or yield, you can’t raise requirements.</p>

117

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<p>My family’s timing usually stinks on things so I’m glad we timed it right with UA. We love our Presidential scholarship plus other stipends. We wouldn’t qualify for FA yet this is really a big help to us. And we are a family that wouldn’t be at UA if it weren’t for the Presidential because the school wouldn’t have even been on our radar. </p>

<p>Regarding state lotteries, Texas started one some years back and it hasn’t been the cure-all it was touted to be.</p>

118

<p>*Quote:
But my guess is UA admissions will look very different in twenty years. Much less broad merit aid. They will probably have 50 or so full ride packages to attract tippy top students. The rest will be FA
*</p>

<p>I doubt that. Again, publics charge high OOS rates for a reason. It doesn’t make sense to then cover it with FA. Bama isn’t like UVA, UNC, UVA, the UCs, etc, where nearly all their students are instate. Bama has to provide something that makes those top stats students choose Bama over their cheaper instate schools.</p>

<p>Right now, Bama attracts a couple different types of OOS students:</p>

<p>1) high stats kids who grab the merit - Bama needs these kids to help fill the STEM seats for the SEC and other academic majors.</p>

<p>2) “good stats” students who can’t get into their flagship, and their parents are willing to pay for their kids to have that “flagship, big sports” experience. These are the full pay or near full pay students who are really most of the OOS students. Bama needs these kids for revenue.</p>

119

<p>^^^you are probably correct as you obviously are much more familiar with UA than I am. My thought proces was that as UA climbs the rankings ladder they will need to give less broad incentives (huge prez scholarships) because they will be drawing OOS high stat kids who want to attend because of reputation. So a lot more OOS full pay kids.Their focus would then shift to the really high achievers…the ivy-type kids. The only way to grab those kids in bunches is with full rides.</p>

120

<p>as UA climbs the rankings ladder</p>

<p>Climbing the rankings ladder takes a LOT of time. A school moves up some notches, and then moves down some notches. And, it’s hard to pass-by the good schools ahead of Bama. Bama maybe will get to around Purdue’s spot eventually, but getting further than that is unlikely.</p>