<p>So I was accepted to UC Berkeley OOS w/ absolutely zero financial aid into the College of Natural Resources, and William and Mary in-state. My parents want me to go to WM (we could afford the OOS tuition but they don't want to pay it unless Berkeley would really put me in a much better position than WM). At both schools I would want to major in Bio (not premed) and environmental science. I really like Berkeley, but of course it is not my money. Does anyone have any advice, or believe that going to Cal would be a much better option for the environmental science track? I'll probably go to grad school just fyi. Also disclaimer, I also posted this in the Berkeley forum.</p>
<p>Basically, do you think that the ROI for Berkeley would be higher than at WM?</p>
<p>From a purely financial perspective, it’s difficult to make a case for Berkeley - as an in-state student, you’ll be far better positioned to pay for graduate work going to W&M than Berkeley - if you’re going onto any kind of graduate program, you’ll want to end your undergraduate years as close to debt-free as possible - graduate loan subsidies are gone, so it’s going to get more and more expensive to finance grad school. If you (your parents) can afford both, great - but that’s well outside my experience. </p>
<p>From an academic perspective, I doubt there’ll be much to choose between the schools - both have excellent programs. </p>
<p>So, in terms of ROI, I’d personally find it hard to justify the huge additional expense of Berkeley undergraduate work vice W&M. If it were me, I’d plan for W&M for undergraduate, and try to get Berkeley for graduate work - knowing that Berkeley graduate school is no slam-dunk. </p>
<p>To get into Berkeley graduate school (or any top grad school), and especially get involved/take advantage of the many research opportunities at W&M, including summer research (<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/as/biology/research/undergrad/summersupport/index.php”>http://www.wm.edu/as/biology/research/undergrad/summersupport/index.php</a>) and try to get published, like these students: <a href=“http://www.wm.edu/as/biology/research/undergrad/studentpublications/index.php”>http://www.wm.edu/as/biology/research/undergrad/studentpublications/index.php</a></p>
<p>You’ll want to look at departmental Honors as well: for example, <a href=“https://www.wm.edu/as/biology/research/undergrad/honors/index.php”>https://www.wm.edu/as/biology/research/undergrad/honors/index.php</a></p>
<p>To get into a top-ranked grad program like Berkeley, good grades are fine - and necessary (3.5+ on the W&M scale, where 3.5 is “cum laude”) - but you’ll also need research experience, and W&M can get you that. </p>
<p>Here’s the thing, though - you’re clearly hoping someone will tell you “Berkeley is totally worth it” - no doubt that’s what they’re saying on the Berkeley forum - but if you decide on an in-state school like W&M, you have to drop whatever feelings of disappointment you have at not being able to afford your “dream school” and embrace your “new” favorite school, lest you wind up sabotaging yourself. </p>
<p>DD was in the same situation - “dream school” was about $30K a year more than we could afford. With her enormous debt she’s facing finishing grad school, she’s very grateful to have had an affordable and highly-respected undergraduate choice.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>@hedgehog12 - you have no idea what it is to get a class in Berkeley. Have you been lucky enough to be a part of the Regents program (even if you did not get any scholarship)? I have several friends both Regents and non-Regents recipients, unless you are in the former category, getting your desired classes in the first two years will be extremely difficult and this usually means Summer Courses to manage to get your regular classes. Look at the class sizes. Even the class sizes are HUGE. One of my friends has about 300 students ONLY in her section for Chem01. Overall there are more than 1000 students signed up for this class.</p>
<p>Another very pertinent point to keep in mind - you are looking at a very high percentage of EXTREMELY competitive “valedictorians” in your class that only care about their own well-being. A collaborative learning experience will be sorely missed. </p>
<p>I am still waiting for my WL decision from WM and though I am OOS (In California and already finalizing on one of the UC campuses), I will personally prefer the smaller class size in WM having seen how things are amiss in Berkeley (in my backyard).</p>
<p>I really like @squiddy’s recommendation and will target my local colleges for the coveted spots in their Graduate Programs.</p>
<p>Good Luck… </p>
<p>Thanks everyone! I’ve decided to go to WM as I feel that the education is just as good and much cheaper. UVa was actually my dream school, not Berkeley, so letting Berkeley go isn’t too hard. It’s just that everyone was telling me I was crazy for turning it down and I wanted to make sure that my reasoning was sound.</p>
<p>I just got in to WIlliam & Mary too, but I’m waiting on UVA’s reply… We’ll see how it goes.</p>