<p>Hey guys sorry to bring up another vs. thread but I'm seriously stuck on which to choose. Money isn't so much an issue in the decision though.</p>
<p>1) Ability to get into top grad school / med. school
2) Difficulty / Competitiveness
3) Ability to talk to professors / Internships / Research
4) Social Life
5) Surroundings</p>
<p>Apparently Cornell is also really competitive.</p>
<p>Thanks guys for reading through another guy's dilemma.</p>
<p>For numbers 1, 2 and 3, i believe they are pretty even.</p>
<p>Social life- they’re quite different; i’ve heard. Berkeley crowd is dynamic and friendly. </p>
<p>surroundings - very different as well.
Berkeley is lovely. The campus is perched on a rolling terrain overlooking the beautiful city of San Francisco and the bay area. In my opinion, there’s nothing more dramatic view than it anywhere in the US. It’s a totally lovely place. The campus is very clean too.
Cornell, there was plenty of snow when I visited. I didn’t really like it that much.</p>
<p>I think you should also consider the strength of your chosen program.</p>
<p>I enjoy berkeley.</p>
<p>I’m curious – does “competitive” mean basically that people bash skulls instead of cooperating in studies, or does it just mean that students are smart, and standards are high? There’s a huge difference. </p>
<p>I regard a lot of our academic programs as more akin to the latter description. Though obviously premed, prebusiness, etc, are unfortunately competitive in the traditional bashing sense.</p>
<p>Berkeley’s location is both very interesting and lively, and the campus has plenty of greenery. Honestly, when there is fairly cool weather, and there’s a breeze, it’s just about the perfect weather. Just taking a walk or two outside tends to uplift one’s mood at least a little if that’s necessary!</p>
<p>umm… yes standards are high… I’ve heard stories of people bashing other people’s chemicals to screw up results and stuff… but never happen to me… </p>
<p>And yea… people like studying on their own… but there definitely are people who are willing to study together.
there’s a lot of geniuses here… i wish i was one of them lol 
lawercats</p>
<p>1) Ability to get into top grad school / med. school
Both colleges will offer that
2) Difficulty / Competitiveness
Both are competive. Berkeley might be a bit mroe challenging depending on the major. But all colleges have compettition, duh! haha
3) Ability to talk to professors / Internships / Research
Cornell gives yoou more opp. to talk to professors, where as berkeley will give you more internships and top research opp.
4) Social Life
Both are there
5) Surroundings
Berkeley is in a vast diversified community.</p>
<p>^Berkeley actually gives you more chances for internships and “top research opp.”??</p>
<p>I have to choose between these two schools…and interested in med school as well.</p>
<p>it’d be great if someone can provide an even more comprehensive perspective on the academic aspects of this.</p>
<p>I visited Berkeley (during Regents interview thing and I’m only 40 minutes by car away) some weeks ago and I did not like how cramped Berkeley is and how hobos just randomly sit in the street corners and yell out slightly offensive phrases occasionally. Besides that, the social life is good.</p>
<p>For med school, go to Cornell.</p>
<p>^ word…</p>
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<p>1) Mostly depends on your drive and inclination. Berkeley has a very competitive premed atmosphere, but I still know plenty of people who got into med school. Cornell has a smaller student body size which is good, but it’s no cakewalk either given their grade deflation trends.
2) They’re most likely on par for difficulty, with Berkeley perhaps slightly more difficult, but premeds at Berkeley are definitely more competitive I would imagine, mostly because of the large amount of premeds vying for the same amount of resources.
3) I don’t think you’re gonna get your hands held at either of these universities, if you want something, go get it. If you don’t know how, learn. Professors are human beings too and most of them are sad about how few students dare approaching them. But of course, don’t be an idiot, professors are very keen at distinguishing between real inquisitive questions for knowledge and half-ass questions aimed at soliciting a recommendation letter. Top students that talk to the professors get research, that’s it.
4) As a premed you should be prepared to sacrifice some of your social life in the quest for the best GPA you can get and research/hospital experience. It doesn’t mean the complete elimination of social life, however, because that’ll just drive you insane and drop out of premed. Learning to balance it out is one of the biggest challenges. When you go out, however, Berkeley is more fun than Ithaca, and San Francisco is very easily accessible by public transportation.
5) Berkeley has everything you’d expect in an urban environment, including bums. Ithaca has everything you’d expect in a rural environment, including natural beauty. They’re quite differently really, and it shouldn’t be hard for you to figure out which one you like better.</p>
<p>I’m not a premed, never was. But half of my family are doctors/medical scientists. Good luck!</p>
<p>I’ve lived in the Bay Area for the past 9 years. It’s pretty great, and I don’t want to sound like an a-hole but are Cornell students a bit “better” than Berkeley students? But then I guess that would mean that it’s hard to stand out more at Cornell because everybody is already so qualified and willing to take the initiative to really get to know their teachers?</p>
<p>Based on what you said about the internships/research/connections with professors, looks like Cornell is on par with Berkeley. </p>
<p>Is Ithaca really THAT boring? I heard much about the snow–is it really THAT much of a problem? lol</p>
<p>Plus, I just read the profile for Duke’s med school, which had an acceptance rate of 2% AND the average GPA for admitted students was like 3.88! That’s INSANE. </p>
<p>How hard is it to get a 3.9~ GPA at Cornell? I know if you want that Berkeley and you’re going to major in a “real” science, you will have to give up a social life completely.</p>
<p>i doubt berkeley provides more research opps</p>
<p>Berkeley because it won’t be as cold as Cornell…</p>
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<p>Maybe on average. But frankly, the ones admitted to the competitive Berkeley majors tend to be quite good. Remember, a lot of engineering students at a school like Berkeley or, to give another example Georgia-Tech, will be MIT rejects…who very likely didn’t get rejected because they’re not among the smartest potential candidates for MIT, but rather because MIT’s selection criteria are subtle and varied. These guys will be very, very smart, and probably chose Berkeley over any school (Cornell included) because of Berkeley’s engineering reputation. The students who got into easy majors at Berkeley because it’s the neighborhood public school, and couldn’t get into Cornell because it’s an Ivy League, are a different story.</p>
<p>But I know a fair number of the other variety, for instance in the EECS department, for instance, guys with 2390 SAT’s, straight A’s in high school, 15+ AP exams with 5’s, perfects on all SAT II’s, a 4.0 in very full, challenging schedules in Berkeley EECS, taking rather advanced courses given what year they are…and wanted to go to MIT. When you are looking to stand out, you’re looking to do so againts really smart people, even if there are plenty of very ordinary students at Berkeley.</p>
<p>This year, a lot of average students got into Berkeley for the reason you stated above–“because it’s the neighborhood public school”. No offense, but I would not enjoy college with people like them because they do not care at all for the learning part itself and are only interested in “getting in”. They for sure would not get into schools like Cornell. I didn’t even realize this until maybe a year ago, but Berkeley first of all accepts so many people and second of all, 80%+ of its students are California residents–that would mean that the standards must be lowered quite a bit (only so many talented California students), even though Cornell and Berkeley have similar acceptance rates, in terms of absolute percentages. </p>
<p>I know a guy two years ago from our school who chose EECS over Cornell (he didn’t get into Stanford, his first choice). He seems very happy. Getting even into Cornell is somewhat of an accomplishment at our school. This year though, quite odd actually, five (including me) got in. One person i think mostly got in because he was a first-generation, low income student. </p>
<p>But overall, it’s hard to stand out at both schools, I’m assuming? Is it equally hard?</p>
<p>Are there GPA distributions/charts? lol</p>
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<p>I am quite sure these types exist everywhere and in schools as big as Berkeley or Cornell, it’s up to you whom you want to associate with. The kinds of people I tend to associate with in classes are only the most serious sorts of students you could imagine at any top school. </p>
<p>I maintain, I am pretty sure the reality of the situation is that Cornell’s average population is probably somewhat more qualified, if only because Ivy League schools attract these types. But for the absolute most academically driven students at both Cornell and Berkeley, everything but pure academics set aside, I really think Berkeley has a significant edge in a department like EECS. When it comes to department strength + faculty, internationally Berkeley is placed on the level of a school like MIT. There are some real ridiculous gods of some fields residing there. Similar remarks apply to some other departments. Cornell is an overall very well regarded school, but it is more known over a school like Berkeley for undergraduate prestige, unless I am very much mistaken, than for department strength, where Berkeley is quite remarkable. </p>
<p>To give an idea, my friend, a junior transfer to Berkeley (and a very smart one at that) didn’t even consider Cornell when applying to grad schools. He’s ending up back at Berkeley’s program. You’ll find students who care so much about the department strengths that they hardly distinguish between undergraduate and graduate ratings – they’re in it for the good stuff. With these remarks, I couldn’t possibly understand why you’d worry about being in the company of people less motivated than you.</p>
<p>Frankly, I know people at Cornell, Harvard, you name it, and they’re good students, but not really anything to blow my mind. There seem to be very few people who really impress me, and I think those kinds will be scarce at almost any school.</p>
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<p>This issue is so underrated at Cal. Even by browsing through Cal’s website the main page would already tell you that research is highly stressed at Cal. It’s an area that it’s strong at Cal than at other elite colleges.</p>
<p>blueducky: I guess you’re underestimating your classmates who got into Cal. Maybe all you’ve seen in them are their weaknesses. You’d be surprised such people go on to college and do great things later on in life. If you will suppress their opportunities now by not giving them the opportunity to attend a world-class school like Cal, you wouldn’t really know what they’re capable of. Maybe they didn’t study a lot because they didn’t like your high school. Maybe they weren’t inspired by your teachers. Maybe they’re struggling financially. But to immediately conclude that such people are talentless is wrong. Cal adcom must have seen something unique in them that they may be able to offer to their future classmates at Cal creating an excellent mix of talents. Remember that not all successful people today were great in their high school years. Einstein, if I may remember this correctly, even flunked high school physics. And many presidents of nations and large corporations weren’t really honor students in high school. Are all congressmen and senators honor students in high school? I suppose not. Are all great scientists and discoverers honor students in high school? I guess not. So give your classmates some respect and stop judging them. :)</p>
<p>Well, would you rather attend the best public university or the worst Ivy League school?</p>
<p>Personally, I would choose Berkeley. Money wasn’t an issue for my family either, but it’s still an extra $28,000 a year to go to Cornell. If you have any younger siblings, the savings alone would be enough to send them to a UC, CSU, etc. And if you don’t have younger siblings, you can save your parents the money, because you already owe them for raising you.</p>
<p>Now, if you’re out-of-state, going to Berkeley won’t save you too much money in the end. Nevertheless, I would still choose Berkeley. My feeling is, when you’re in your early twenties, Berkeley is a hundred million times better than Ithaca. I’ve been to both towns, so I can tell you, Berkeley is one of the best college towns there is, and Ithaca totally sucks.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t choose Cornell if I had to pay an extra $100K by the end of four years, that’s for sure. I just don’t know my financial aid offer yet because they lost my CSS profile lol.</p>
<p>What’s wrong with choosing the worst Ivy over the best public? You say that like it’s a crime. Yes, berkeley’s environment may be livelier, but I told you about those lovely homeless people.</p>
<p>Also, I’m now majoring in chemistry/biochemistry (Chemical Biology at UCB’s College of Chemistry) as a pre-med. I definitely know that for graduate school, UCB’s Chemistry is the best in the nation. (I’m not doing EECS at Berkeley, obviously. If i were, I would choose UCB.) I’m not so sure how dedicated I would be to chemistry though, and I know I’d want to do pre-med more, so I thought maybe Cornell would be better for that?</p>
<p>As for the judging, I’m sorry but it’s true–people with 1800 SAT’s get in because they take easy regular/AP classes and end up with a super-inflated 4.0+ and get into Cal. It IS too easy for them, compared to those out-of-state students. I used to think that too, yes, because they got into Cal, they must have showed some potential, but I hear about these types flunking out of classes at Cal, so I don’t know. Maybe not all of them do, but definitely some are outright unqualified.</p>
<p>So, if I got into EECS at Berkeley and CS at Cornell’s Arts and Sciences, I’d be stupid to reject Berkeley?</p>