<p>Guys, can we please keep the dick-measuring contests out of here?</p>
<p>azndarkvader, what are your interests? what makes you you? what kind of experience are you looking to get out of college? the better you know yourself, the better you can know where you belong.</p>
<p>How is berkeley better than chicago for teaching?</p>
<p>Man CC is kind of becoming hilarious nowadays. I would agree about being better for weather though.</p>
<p>Just re-read this thread. You got effectively no aid from Cal and about half aid from Chi? Chi’s tuition + r/b is about 56k, (assuming instate) Cal is about 31k. So 28k (56/2) vs 31k, does that sound about right?</p>
<p>Also, I wouldn’t worry too much about your potential GPA at Chicago. Anecdotally, if you don’t overload yourself with honors and accelerated classes, try not to double up on lab or reading-heavy classes, etc., you’ll be fine. </p>
<p>If you’re looking for stats, there’s gradeinflation.com, which puts an average GPA for Chicago in 2006 as 3.35 and Berkeley in 2006 as 3.27. (I think it checks out; they cite journalistic sources that appear legitimate, at least on the Chicago side).</p>
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<p>Absolutely. Try to attend some popular first year classes in areas that interest you. Ask for specific information about course delivery. For example:
How many students are enrolled in a typical introductory Economics, History, English, or Biology class? Is there a TA, and if so, what is his/her role? How much reading is assigned each week, and how much discussion time is allowed for each assignment? Does the professor stand and lecture, or sit with the students and ask challenging questions? How many essays/papers are assigned? How much written commentary does the professor provide with your grade? Do the exams usually require complex answers (essays, problem-solving exercises, proofs), or do they often use easily-graded formats such as multiple-choice and T/F? What about the professor’s office hours? </p>
<p>I’ve seen surprisingly little discussion of issues like this on CC. Maybe some current students at either school can give a little feedback here on CC.</p>
<p>Have you been accepted to both already? I’d wait to see first before you go. ;)</p>
<p>However, I think it depends on your finances. If you can afford to pay private tuition, I would go with Chicago. Berkeley has a fine facility and lots of opportunities, but I’ve heard that the budget cuts have hit the school quite hard. I think you will get a more personalized experience and even more opportunities if you go to a school without budget problems.</p>
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:rolleyes: Yes, they all sit down right in your face and ask “challenging” questions.</p>
<p>Do you sit or stand when you take a ****?</p>
<p>^ O.K., so you consider that a silly question.
So is it the case that at your school, UCBChemEGrad, you were never exposed to seminar-style classes? Or maybe you don’t see the value of them? </p>
<p>Socratic, seminar-style teaching in small classes is highly valued at Chicago, at all course levels. The prevailing style when I was there was for faculty and students to sit around a large circular or rectangular table (not for the professor to stand behind a lectern and face a rank-and-file assembly of students). </p>
<p>There are pros and cons to this style. In my opinion, the pros outweigh the cons. For one thing, it can be a good way to expose rude, immature students and help them grow up. Unfortunately, some large, overcrowded institutions cannot afford to help all their students through this process.</p>
<p>@M’s Mom, I would be careful about considering the reasons for a longer graduation time at Berkeley - it could have to do with nature of student body. A strong student with a decent number of AP courses tends to be able to graduate no problem, as they pass out of enough, enter with advanced standing, which facilitates getting classes. As someone who went through berkeley and never had issues getting classes, I need to inject this info in the discussion.</p>
<p>@bonanza, the edge does not go to Chicago so easily, considering there are drastic differences, for instance the greater ease of getting the schedule you want to take at Berkeley in a sense - you tend to need to test into many classes at Chicago, at least I have heard this. Also, I have it from a former graduate that the core was quite inflexible in his day - you could not replace one class with another; this tends to be easier in Berkeley, assuming it is clear you know what you are doing.</p>
<p>I agree with tk21769 that research quality IN ANY SENSE USEFUL TO A PROSPECTIVE (whether student or employee) is tough to measure, and specifics are crucial to know. For instance, depending on subfield, Chicago or Berkeley is superior in mathematics. In general? Neither is superior.</p>
<p>@neekzg, Chicago is hard, GPA will deflate at both.</p>
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<p>In my day it was flexible in the sense that there were several alternatives for satisfying most Core requirements. So there might have been 3-5 Core sequence alternatives for Humanities. By design, however, it was not as flexible as a distribution requirement system. You couldn’t satisfy the requirement by taking any N credits in several random courses in your choice of English/History/Music/etc. The Core courses were designed as integrated year-long sequences covering broad, interdisciplinary themes.</p>
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<p>I sit, unless I’m China, where I squat, or I’m in the Reg, where I have to stand because the toilets are very <em>ahem</em> exuberant about flushing. :)</p>
<p>Realistically, though, I feel these are important questions to ask. Some students would do better in one environment than the other, and even if it’s only a portion of the classes given at a certain school, the different composition of pedagogical styles could easily affect student performance and welfare.</p>
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<p>I think what tasmaniandevil means here is that class size is a dumb way to measure the interactive nature of a given class. I’ve had round-table, small classes that felt very lecture-y and stiff, while I’ve also had larger ‘lecture hall’ type classes that felt interactive and engaging. I would definitely agree that it’s more about the culture at a given institution, rather than raw stats like class size.</p>
<p>^^ Funny. But look at the “total enrollment” column for the seminars, labs, and discussions, not just at the lectures. (Yes, there are lecture classes at Chicago; you wouldn’t usually do Socratic dialog in Biology.) </p>
<p>Now have a look at some Humanities courses, too.
[University</a> of Chicago Time Schedules](<a href=“http://timeschedules.uchicago.edu/view.php?dept=HUMA&term=446]University”>University of Chicago Time Schedules)
I believe “Human Being And Citizen-3” is a first-year Core sequence. Total enrollments as shown range from 4 to 16 students.</p>
<p>Rny, I agree that culture is important. So is the individual’s learning style. Not all teachers and students can make small seminars work well; lectures can indeed be interactive and engaging. I do think class size is a fairly good metric, though.</p>
<p>Sorry to hijack this thread but…
Now I have to choose between Berkeley (29k) vs Chicago (31k) vs Rice (16k). If I was going to choose between these three which one should I go to? </p>
<p>Based on in order of importance Prestige, Academic Quality, Highest Chance to get into Med School, Social Life/Happiness, Most Opportunities for Undergrad Research, Cost,</p>
<p>Hmm, interesting. The 2k between Berkeley and Chicago is not that large, 8k over 4 years, but that ~15k drop down to Rice is interesting. Over 4 years, 60k is pretty big. How are your finances looking? How much would your parents be willing to provide, how much of a burden would those tuitions pose? Remember that medical school will carry its own expenses and costs.</p>
<p>And dude, we can’t tell you about social life/happiness if you don’t tell us anything about yourself :P. Diff’rent strokes, yes?</p>
<p>Well, I’m not extremely social or antisocial. I like playing video games and hanging out with friends. I plan on not staying in my dorm when I have downtime. And I prefer going out of state (CA for ~18 years…). I want to experience something different from California.</p>
<p>Tk, it’s a silly question because research universities will teach students by the method that makes the most sense for the subject matter. </p>
<p>Berkeley is a big place with a very large and academically renowned faculty. To generalize teaching methods and quality across the whole university is stupid.</p>
<p>I had very small seminar classes (15 students including grad students) all the way to large 400 student lectures. Teaching quality was fantastic across all my classes.</p>
<p>When you have three great choices (which you do), and you don’t have a strong preference by now, a big price difference is as good a basis as any to choose. In case you prefer Chicago, try faxing them the Rice offer. Tell them Chicago would be your first choice if the costs were comparable. Since these are two peer schools, Chicago might be willing to compete for you.</p>
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<p>O.K., I’ll buy that. Chicago varies its teaching methods too. </p>
<p>One thing the OP should be aware of though is that a relatively high percentage of Chicago’s courses are required. Between the Core courses and prerequisites for the major, it used to be that requirements took up about half your total program. Maybe it’s less now. Still, you’d want to consider more than just your Bio courses because you’ll be getting a whole lot of other stuff as well.</p>
<p>my major concern is which one will help me get into medical school? and would be best fit with the list i provided above? "Prestige, Academic Quality, Highest Chance to get into Med School, Social Life/Happiness, Most Opportunities for Undergrad Research, Cost, "</p>
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<p>Hmm, so the correct method of teaching is dependent upon the subject matter being taught? How does this interact with the qualities of the student being taught? (nothing mean-spirited or sarcastic. just interested in theories of education 
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<p>azndarkvader, you sound pretty solid for both schools there, I doubt either school would find a lacking of video gamers or an excess of room-hiders. How about your views on college, the college life? Do you want to get involved with Greek life, and if so, what kind of scene are you looking for? Theatre, sports, politics, what gets you fired up, what passions do you want to pursue in college?</p>
<p>As far as medical school, I’m sure you know the major elements are going to be GPA and MCAT. For MD/PhD programs, research experience might come into play, but otherwise those are your big points. I gave some resources on comparing mean GPA’s at Chicago vs Cal, you could probably find info on mean MCAT’s between the two schools, but you’d have to control for the quality/composition of the student body somehow.</p>
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<p>It’s now about a third of one’s courses in a 4-year program, with one third major and one third elective. Of course, AP credit can help with the Sciences portion (6 classes), but all students take Humanities, Civilizations, and Social Sciences. From a cursory glance, it would appear that more of Berkeley’s core can be placed out of.</p>
<p>And please, can someone speak on Rice? I’m not altogether familiar with that school, especially in a pre-med setting.</p>
<p>Rny2. not so interested in greek life. do you know how many premeds are in your year? and how are they keeping up with the core</p>