My D intends to major in Psychology/Cognitive Science/Neuroscience.
Currently she has narrowed down the choice to either UC Berkeley or WashU. We know that the PNP program in WashU is unique and getting the course of your choice is likely to be a bigger challenge in Berkeley rather than WashU. We understand that the faculty in both schools are fantastic in this area.
In WashU she has been admitted to the College of Arts and Science and at UC Berkeley she has been admitted to the College of Letters and Science. The cost of attendance is not a consideration in this decision.
I would like to know from people who have had any experience/have kids who have had experience at either school. Any advice/thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Seems like UCB is trying to avoid that being much of an issue. However, the result is that popular courses can have really big class sizes.
For example, COMPSCI 61A (one of the prerequisites for the cognitive science major, as well as the enormously popular computer science major) enrolled 1,685 and 1,225 students last fall and this spring.
I have a child at WashU who has Psych as one of her two majors. She finds her professors both engaging and accessible, and has not had any issues getting into classes. PNP is very popular, and I’ve only heard good things about it. I can’t compare to UCB but WashU also happens to be a very pleasant place to go to school. Kids are generally friendly and hardworking, dorms are lovely, food is excellent.
Our student is a junior STEM major at WashU. For the core courses (Bio, General Chemistry, Organic) the classes are large. Our student has really enjoyed the tutorials that accompany the large classes. Has had no problem with accessing teachers – they are very accommodating. Advanced classes are much smaller. Has had a great experience with Arts and Sciences classes as well – several classes had 5 or fewer students – and were great. Your advisors will help you with your schedule and you will be pretty much able to get the classes you want and need. Student’s only disappointment in scheduling has been class conflicts when there is only 1 section of class available.
I went to Wash U ('90) for undergrad and Berkeley ('98) for grad school, but in Physics. So I can’t speak to the major program at all but have experience with the climate, culture, etc of both. Has your daughter visited both campuses? Where do you live now? For me, moving to the Bay Area for grad school was like a breath of fresh air in terms of climate, physical beauty of the area (although not right by campus… parts of Berkeley are pretty grimy), and the more international/cosmopolitan vibe. (I’m still in the Bay Area and I can’t imagine ever moving back to the midwest… and I grew up there, so it’s not like I was a Californian pining to get back here). That said, there’s a lot more hand-holding at the private school and for me as an undergrad I think I would have been overwhelmed at Berkeley. I was able to start paid research with a professor in my department as a 2nd-semester freshman at Wash U… much harder to snag that sort of thing at Berkeley until you are much further along.
Best wishes for the decision process. Hopefully she can visit both, but both are great schools.
@washugrad, yes we visited both schools last summer. She is also planning on visiting both places during their admitted student event later this month. Hopefully these trips will help her decide. It is tough saying no to either school because she values both of them extremely highly. Your point about being able to start the research process earlier at WashU is something we have heard from others too. Thank you.
We live in the Mid-South. While WashU will be closer, distance from home is not likely to be a criteria in the decision.
All things being equal and considering you’re OOS, I’d choose WashU not just for the special program but also for the more comfortable learning conditions (career center, advising, resources, access to professors…)
@MYOS1634 , Thanks. That is a feedback we have received from quite a few people. I think the difficulty is - How do you turn down admission from a school like Berkeley!!! Hopefully when we visit both schools my D will be able to make a good decision.
:)) @MYOS1634 . That is another nice perspective. March was stressful about where she would get in. April it is stressful about where she will choose to go and I am certain August will be stressful about how big a check one has to write :).
If there is a panel talk with current students, ask questions like, “what do you like most about this school” and “what’s your biggest complaint here?” Also - if your daughter has any specific activities she is interested in (sports, music, etc) try to pin down what you need to know about how that works at each school. At Berkeley ask questions about housing… I might be wrong but I think it’s likely that freshmen are in triples and housing is only guaranteed for a year or two. Not sure the current situation at Wash U as it’s been a long time since I was there. I know they built several new dorms in the last 20 years, though. Greek life used to feature pretty heavily in the social scene at Wash U… I think it might be a smaller percentage now, and it’s a small but definite presence at Berkeley as well… so if she has strong opinions one way or the other (how do I join? How easy is it to have a social life but avoid the Greek system?) ask about that.
Thanks @washugrad . She is into student government, mock trial, model UN, social activism. She is keen on study abroad.
She does not like schools with a heavy frat presence and will possibly stay away from schools where it is a significant part of student life.
Two great schools - but as you know, completely different in scale, intimacy, scenery, etc. FYI – I took grad school classes at Berkeley and have very strong family connections there. Our Wash U junior lived in two of the newer dorms on the South 40 as a First and Second Year and now lives off campus near the Delmare Loop. Most of dorms are quite new and the rooms are spacious. As a First Year, had a double with shared bathroom with neighbor twin. As a Second year, four shared a suite with a bath. Worked out great – all are still living together off campus.
Our student is in Greek – but it is much lower key than it was years ago. Best friends are not in Greek – no pressure either way. Lots of friends are doing overseas programs – either during one or two semesters or in summer. It is hard to do during school year as a STEM major – the labs typically cannot be duplicated. Family member who attended Berkeley joined Greek in part to have a place to live.
Lots of opportunities to get involved – all kinds of volunteer activities, clubs, tutoring, etc. Our student has done two spring break and one fall break volunteer trip. Loved it – part of a great education. Now volunteers at Barnes-Jewish Hospital and greatly enjoys it.
My point in this ambling note is that for our Student, the scale of Wash U certainly made it easier to get engaged and to navigate. It may be more of a challenge at Cal. One other thing to consider is living costs – I loved Berkeley when I was living in the Bay Area – but even with a good job could not rent a place – 35 years ago. I can’t imagine it is any better!
Two great schools – congrats on both! Best of luck!
“How do you turn down admission from a school like Berkeley!!!”
To accept admission at a school like Wash U.
Sorry, can’t remember the source or the number, but I read somewhere that Wash U spends more per student per year than any other school, well over $100,000. Berkeley is obviously a world-class research university. Undergrads are fortunate to study there–they get a terrific education in an area with lots going on. But the resources will be much greater at Wash U, and it sounds like it’s for an insignificant cost difference in your case. That means better access to classes and professors, and much more.
However, WUStL has a medical school associated with it. It does seem in these numbers that colleges with associated medical schools have much higher spending, possibly because the accounting causes some of the medical school spending to be included (compare UCB and UCLA).
LOL @TTG. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. D is getting ready to visit both schools overnight stay programs for admitted students. Hopefully she will be able to make an informed decision. After hearing about all the pluses and minuses it is clear to me that she cannot make a bad choice in this case. It is a question of which of the schools fits her personality better.
