UC for an out-of-stater

College Search & Selection
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<p>Gentlemanandscholar, I'm surprised to hear you see no problems. There was a recent newspaper article featuring Cal students who said just the opposit. Cal has publicly said it is letting buildings crumble because they can't put money into maintenance. All of the UCs have dropped the number of classes offered and it become very hard to graduate in 4 years. </p>

<p>As for the money issue, people with large need most often do better at private schools. If you don't have one of the UC scholarships, they are not at all generous with grants and many UC kids graduate with much higher loans than they would have had going to an ivy.</p>

<p>It's hard to believe UCs would give grants to oos students unless it was just someone so spectacular that they wanted him, but in general, UCs don't think this way. </p>

<p>The UCs take a far lower percentage of oos kids than most state schools. This is because the concept is that they are there to educate California's best and brightest (top 12%). It goes against the grain to give grants to oos students, especially at a time when CA really needs the money.</p>

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<p>Indeed, to further expound upon what Carolyn and I touched on earlier, many private schools (my own included) offer to meet 100% of need-based aid. With these schools, if your EFC turns out to be less than the comprehensive costs of attending a UC, then often you would save more by choosing the private. Of course, the formulas and math are a little more complex than this and it won't be the case in every instance but, at least in theory, it holds true. I've talked about myself often, but I alsoknow other students here who qualified for pell grants. Their financial aid packages were so substantial that it was actually more advantageous for them to attend USC than any UC. Please don't tell me you're of the malinformed group of students who automatically assume a public school is cheaper.</p>

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<p>Yes, Gentleman, your tuition is covered with CAL grants and, I assume, university scholarships. Unfortunately, out of state students can't get Cal grants and have less opportunities for university scholarships as well.</p>

<p>Cal Grants are, by law, only given to California residents. They represent the most common type of grant given by the UC system, but out of state residents can't get them, which means they must rely on university scholarships.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, some of the university scholarships have in-state residency requirements as well. And, even the university grants that don't are typically tied to MERIT as well as financial need. Here's a little secret that was told to me by someone in the UCB admissions office when I asked specifically about out of state financial aid: preference is given to in-state residents for these grants, even though they are not restricted strictly to Calif. residents. Out of state students can, and do, get university scholarships, but they usually go to the cream of the crop of out of state residents.</p>

<p>So, that leaves loans and work study. If you don't receive a university scholarship, a Cal Grant, or a Pell Grant, UC financial aid packages tend to rely heavily on loans and work study. Believe me, I've looked at the numbers many times for all of the UC's, seen enough student financial aid packages, and talked with financial aid and admissions people at the UC's to be able to say with some certainty that out of state financial aid is limited. If you get one of the university grants, that's great, but otherwise, you're limited to Pell grants, loans and work study if you're an out of state student.</p>

<p>Now, think back to something that was said earlier in this thread about four year graduation rates, and how it was suggested that the UC low 4-year grad rates were because so many UC students had to work, at least part time, to pay for their education. If the UC system is as free and easy with financial aid as you seem to think, that statement doesn't make sense. The fact: there are a lot of kids in the UC system, in state and out, who are facing monetary shortfalls.</p>

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<p>you can get a great education at a UC school, but a lot is on your shoulders, something to consider since the out-of-state student doesn't have the compensating balance of at least paying a lot less than they would at a private. </p>

<p>There was an article in a SF paper a few years back that compared what Cal offers to what many other elite privates do. It makes interesting reading. See <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/05/06/MN176023.DTL%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/05/06/MN176023.DTL&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Most telling to me is this excerpt

[quote]
But Joni Finney, vice president of the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, said the university has a responsibility to take better care of undergraduates by introducing them to faculty and arranging for advisers. "Other institutions help organize those kinds of interactions and especially in those first years," she said. "You have to be an incredibly independent person to make it in an environment like this."</p>

<p>Jack Citrin, a political science professor at UC Berkeley, agrees, and doesn't believe the campus gives students the individualized attention they need. </p>

<p>Citrin said there is "no way" he would have encouraged his daughter to attend UC Berkeley. Instead, she went to Yale and graduated last year.
"I just see what happened to her as a result of going there, and it would not have been easy here," he said.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>Just wanted to add a few numbers. Here are the percentages of kids at each UC receiving financial aid, including the percentages who had 100% of their need met by the school's financial aid package (including university scholarships, cal grants, loans and work study). I've thrown in the same numbers for Rice and Vanderbilt at the bottom, just for comparison, below. Their numbers are similar for other highly selective schools, however. As you can see, not a single UC met 100% of all student need through financial aid - the "monetary shortfall" you mentioned:</p>

<p>UCB: 59% of students applied for financial aid, 46% were determined to have need. Of those who were determined to have need, 52% had 100% of their need fully met by the school's financial aid package, including grants, scholarships, work study and loans. </p>

<p>UCDavis: 59% of students applied for financial aid, 46% were determined to have financial need. Of those determined to have need, 12% had 100% of their need fully met by financial aid.</p>

<p>UC Irvine: 62% applied for financial aid, 48% were determined to have financial need. Of those determined to have need, 19% had 100% of their need fully met by financial aid.</p>

<p>UCLA: 64% applied for financial aid, 51% were determined to have financial need. Of those determined to have need, 47% had 100% of their need fully met by financial aid.</p>

<p>UC Riverside: 71% applied for financial aid, 59% of those were determined to have financial need. Of those determined to have need, 31% had their need fully met by financial aid.</p>

<p>UCSD: 55% applied for financial aid, 47% were determined to have financial need. Of those determined to have need, 37% had their need 100% met by financial aid.</p>

<p>UCSB: 52% applied for financial aid, 42% were determined to have financial need. Of those determined to have need, 42% had their need 100% met by financial aid.</p>

<p>UCSC:51% applied for financial aid, 42% were determined to have financial need. Of those determined to have need, 20% had their need 100% met by financial aid.</p>

<p>By comparison: Rice and Vanderbilt</p>

<p>Rice: 73% applied for financial aid, 30% were determined to have need. Of those determined to have need, 100% had their financial need 100% met by financial aid.</p>

<p>Vanderbilt: 49% applied for financial aid, 43% were determined to have need. Of those determined to have need, 98% had their financial need 100% met by financial aid.</p>

<p>Now, if you were an out-of-state student with the stats to get into UCB, UCLA, Rice, or Vanderbilt, and you were counting on financial aid to pay your way, which schools do you think you'd have a better chance of affording?</p>

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<p>Do I sense a topic for the next post on your website Carolyn?</p>

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<p>It is interesting when you see it all laid out that way, isn't it? What is surprising to me is the differences between the various schools in terms of percentages getting their need met. Of course, Cal and UCLA have substantial endowments to apply towards scholarships, places like UC Riverside do not. And, of course, not having 100% of your need met is a different story for someone with the same EFC if you're paying $22,000 a year as an instate resident vs. $39,000 as an out of state resident. </p>

<p>Again, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from applying to ANY school -- but I do believe that when you apply you should go in with your eyes wide open if you need substantial financial aid. And, you should be willing to take a close look at other options and how they might compare.</p>

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<p>To all: Like I said, I can only speak from my own experience, which is that my need was met. And mega, are you trying to say that the assumption should be that private schools are cheaper? So two identical applicants with the same stats and whose parents both make $70,000 a year,which is going to be cheaper for them, the State U or the Private?</p>

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<p>"And mega, are you trying to say that the assumption should be that private schools are cheaper?"</p>

<p>No, not at all. Go back and read my posts.</p>

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<p>Well what about my example? And if you don't like that income you should feel free to look up whatever the average salary is in for parents with college age kids and insert it.</p>

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<p>just to mention something, but at Cal, as an out of state student you can recieve the regent scholarship which does cover all fin. aid demostrated by the student. it is only awarded to students with top stats though, so if you can qualify it is a really nice program. Its the UC's method of trying to retain top students what might be going to other schools, but i know that out of state students can qualify for it.</p>

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<p>A student whose parents combined income was $70,000 -- merit aid aside -- would face a better financial situation at a public university.</p>

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<p>And mega, are you trying to say that the assumption should be that private schools are cheaper?>></p>

<p>A blanket statement like this is, of course, silly. But, so is assuming that a state U is always going to be cheaper than a private school. You simply can't know unless you have financial aid and merit offers in hand to compare and contrast. </p>

<p>I'm in favor of casting a wide net so that you have the opportunity to do just that --- you never know how things will shake out until you hold those offers in your hand. </p>

<p>I guess the assumption that a public U is automatically ALWAYS going to be cheaper than a private, is what bugs me: I've seen too many cases where this hasn't been true, especially for highly talented students eligible for large merit rides at some great schools, just as I've seen cases where the public route was definitely the better choice financially. But again, unless you cast that wide net you don't have any way of comparing costs and opportunities.</p>