<p>I don't feel as though I'm arguing with you. Please don't feel attacked, that's not my goal or intention, and I don't think my posts show that I'm attacking you. I'm just saying we can do something about the perception.</p>
<p>no don't worry i knew you weren't attacking me, i said taht cuz of lack of a better word. and we can't do much to change the preception. just to show you an example of the ranking plague, i got into ucla as a freshman this year, and i already am preparing my app for harvard transfer next year. so yeah ranking plagues everyone.</p>
<p>I agree, perception is very difficult to change, but it can be and has been done in different situations.</p>
<p>Give UCLA a serious chance to be fair to it and yourself. Good luck with it.</p>
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Actually, Berkeley's international prestige and name power is superior to that of Yale or Princeton.
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<p>I'd actually like to see a source for that, if you can show it. My experience in Japan is that Yale and Princeton are just a tad hotter.</p>
<p>UCLAri, the Times and the Shanghai ratings for example both have Berkeley well ahead of Princeton. Those rankings are to a large extent a measure of international reputation. You might be right about Japan, that might also be the case in the UK too, but from my personal experience in the rest of Asia, Berkeley is the second name, partly due to its excellence in sciences and engineering (along with MIT), and in much of the European continent Berkeley is at least as big as Princeton or Yale. </p>
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Just curious, how does Berkeley have so much international prestige if it's a state-biased school? I would think it would be pretty hard for international students to be accepted seeing as how out of staters have a much harder time than Californian applicants. Or is international prestige just recognition of the university in other foreign countries?
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<p>There is no stigma about public universities abroad, it's almost the contrary. In France, the majority of top high schools (including the one I attended) are public and free. That used to be the case in the US as well, but the USNWR poll and changing American cultural attitudes (more materialistic, more suburban, universities more tightly associated with socio-economic advancement) have erroded the perceived quality of top large public universities in relation to private ones.</p>
<p>The admit rate for foreing students into Berkeley is about the same as that of top privates.</p>
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There is no stigma about public universities abroad, it's almost the contrary.
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<p>This is also true in Japan.</p>
<p>
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That used to be the case in the US as well, but the USNWR poll and changing American cultural attitudes (more materialistic, more suburban, universities more tightly associated with socio-economic advancement) have erroded the perceived quality of top large public universities in relation to private ones.
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<p>I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. California is and always has been a special case. Even in the 1930s, Exeter and other big name private academies had a huge advantage over the better public secondary schools. And Harvard and MIT and Yale were still "the best."</p>
<p>look down</p>
<p>UCLA! :)</p>
<p>sorry, i had to!</p>
<p>1 of the reasons why Ivy Leagues are so popular is because of their name & history..</p>
<p>As for UCs, it has a broad spectrum on everything...</p>
<p>The history of many of the Ivys really appeals to me. I usually don't get "touchy feely" about locations, but Harvard just "feels" like a great place with tons of history; there's an almost perceptible air of smartness.</p>
<p>While I love UCLA and UCSD, and I know that there's tons of smarts there, you just can't get the same feel out of a building that says "1989" on it.</p>
<p>yea i agree. i think part of the reason berkeley appeals to me so much out of all the UCs is its history and buildings (which are new compared to the east coast, but old compared to other UCs)</p>
<p>A lot of the architectural appeal of Berkeley is in the "new Athens" ethos that it embodies. While most other American universities try to emulate Oxbridge with neo-gothic architecture (with various levels of success) or ascribe to a post-revolutionary American architectural paradigm defined by the campus of the U of Virginia, Berkeley has looked for inspiration in neo-classical forms with some local touches (like the use of white granite from the Sierra Nevadas.) The buildings were meant ot have timeless classical appeal while still being fairly recent. they've held up really well.</p>
<p>UCLAri: think about "The Graduate". Cultural icons like Dustin Hoffman's character, who embodied Berkeley, have been replaced with the likes of Paris Hilton, MLK with Oprah Winfrey and so forth. Young people have more suburban upbringings and grow up in less stimulating, more sterile and more upscale environments.</p>
<p>CalX,</p>
<p>You forget that our parents' generation also grew up with drugged out rockers and idiot actors as well. Let's face it, "The Graduate" wasn't exactly the image every one of our parents had in mind for themselves, either. At least not my mother. </p>
<p>I tend to believe that things aren't really a different color, but maybe a slightly different shade.</p>
<p>UC's hands down. I would choose Berkeley over Harvard anyday.</p>
<p>if u ask me i think ivy leagues are overrated IMO. a UC education is a great education, no matter if it's UCR or UCB. lots of ppl at my school turned down cornell for berk.</p>
<p>If I hadn't spent the last 18 years in California, I would totally embrace the UCs as the ultimate in undergraduate education. I'm going to Indiana University, which is kind of comparable to the UC system--and you know, if I get off the waitlist for Harvard, I'll probably stick to the state school anyway. You learn to see real life, and you're safe from the Ivy Tower Intellectualism that too often ruins an admirable character.</p>
<p>tkm256, why do you think not spending your time in CA would have changed your perspective in the manner you mention?</p>
<p>I've spent my entire life in a seventy mile radius. I know this place inside out, can predict the weather patterns, visited every possibly interesting landmark--it's just time for a change. The SoCal culture is cool, but I'd like to experience another one as well. I want to stretch my wings a bit.</p>
<p>That makes perfect sense, but I don't understand how that might change your views of the UCs undergraduate quality, which your post seemed to say.</p>
<p>well, Each Ivy has its own forte. So, the Ivy, as a collective term, is better.
Lets see,
If ur into Humanities, Harvard, Yale, P'ton and Columbia kick ass.
If ur into Engineering, U can't get better than Cornell.
If ur into Pure Sciences, most Ivies are pretty good.
I'm not sure abt the other fields, but I'm sure each and every field is trhe sopeciality of atleast 1 Ivy.
So, depending on your field, there will always be an Ivy that will be awesome in the field ur interested which is better than Berkeley.</p>
<p>Arjun,</p>
<p>At the undergrad level, you're right. But at the graduate level, Berkeley is usually on par with any program.</p>