<p>
[quote]
and finsh with a Sapporo beer ! ! !
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</p>
<p>Ugh. At least drink a somewhat decent Japanese beer like Yebisu. Sapporo and Asahi are Budweiser with kanji on them.</p>
<p>maybe the UC schools are just underrated. But for me, I've only heard of them for sports related things, not academic.</p>
<p>NathanK,</p>
<p>You do realize that Berkeley, UCLA, and UCSD are powerhouse research campuses, right?</p>
<p>I mean, two (three?) elements on the periodic table are named after Cal.</p>
<p>Berkeley is not in the same ballpark as HYP for the majority of the people around the word (except for grad), but then again, nobody save for stanford and mit are. What I think is funny is when people lump "ivys" together, as if Cornell or Brown are somehow linked to Harvard, Yale and Princeton by anthying more than an athletic division. And please, before we get into the size issue, compare the class sizes for Berkeley and Brown or Berkeley and Harvard, which are supposed to have tiny, hands on classes. For all you Berkeley bashers, time to find a new argument. And for the person who said all classes at the UCs are the same, you're woefully misinformed. Berkeley has maybe the strongest faculty in the country, so unless you're saying that your professors don't really matter (in which case ALL classes at ALL schools would be the same) then you are dead wrong.</p>
<p>omg Rabban, you are a dumbass... now since that is out of the way; to my next point. UC Berkley is a world famous school in many respects, with many good points and many bad. Good points include: excellent engineering programs and doctoral research. Bad points include: the average class size, which is giant, and the "Berkley Style" of logic which Rabban is using. The kind of logic that says "No one but me is right, even though I have nothing to prove my arguement or refute that of my opponents.".</p>
<p>Moving on...UCLA is definately a world class school. The Aerospace engineering program at UCLA is arguably one of the best in the world. Among other things UCLA tends not to attract as many ignorant little ****s as Rabban, which in my opinion makes it a much better place in which to learn.</p>
<p>"Berkley is a world famous school in many respects, with many good points and many bad. Good points include: excellent engineering programs and doctoral research. Bad points include: the average class size, which is giant"</p>
<p>Percentage of classes with fifty or more students:</p>
<p>Brown=12 percent</p>
<p>Harvard=13 percent</p>
<p>Berkeley=15 percent</p>
<p>Percentage of classes with fewer than twenty students:</p>
<p>Brown=65 percent</p>
<p>Rice=60</p>
<p>MIT=61</p>
<p>Berkeley=58 percent</p>
<p>Do some research before you spout off. Or are Harvard, Brown, Rice and MIT's average classes all "giant?"</p>
<p>barfdog17, please don't be idiotic and pretend there is some sort of "Berkeley style of logic." Oh wait, perhaps you could back up your claims? Or would you rather be a hypocrite?</p>
<p>I don't get it. Why does every CC poster find it necessary to imagine that school prestige is a zero-sum game, where if one school is prestigious, another can't be?</p>
<p>I just don't get it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley is not in the same ballpark as HYP for the majority of the people around the word (except for grad)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, Berkeley's international prestige and name power is superior to that of Yale or Princeton. And let's not talk about schools like Brown, Dartmouth or Penn, which virtually no one has heard of in Europe or Asia. </p>
<p>There is no dstinction between grad or undergrad from abroad, and that distinction tends to be way overblown here because it's essentially reduced to things like % alumni donations and other metrics which put inferior small colleges like Brown or Emory on the same footing as a top world-class university like Berkeley. But when it comes to real variables affecting the quality of undergraduate education like class size, there is no there there. Ultimately, it's more about social cachet, which has a lot of appeal for many 17-yr olds.</p>
<p>just to let you know, you don't have to bash other schools because you think your's is better. btw emory actually misreported their alumni giving rate by half (19% reported and 36% actual) so if you want to say that emory (which is tied with berkley) and brown are not as good, you should have some real reasons.</p>
<p>fair enough amadani about the bashing.</p>
<p>real reasons: I would put quality of the faculty, academic rankings, international reputation, breadth of curriculum above metrics like alumni giving rate. With those factors, Berkeley stands up to most Ivy schools.</p>
<p>Just curious, how does Berkeley have so much international prestige if it's a state-biased school? I would think it would be pretty hard for international students to be accepted seeing as how out of staters have a much harder time than Californian applicants. Or is international prestige just recognition of the university in other foreign countries?</p>
<p>exigent, I think you stumped all these poor berkeley students...</p>
<p>i am gonna be a uc student myself but, on a world class note, as a little kid in india who didn't care that much about colleges, in elementary school and stuff, there were only three colleges i knew of:</p>
<p>in Ranking:</p>
<p>1) Oxford
2) Harvard
3) Cambridge</p>
<p>So my definition of a world class is if akid would know the name of the college without doing any research.</p>
<p>PS. this is personal opinion, don't bombard it with facts, cuz i already mentioned "as a kid without doing any research" so in my opinion world class is based on name recognition.</p>
<p>Quoi? We're not all students. For example, CalX and sakky are alumni. We also do other things with our time than just post on cc all day. Just because you have yet to hear a response doesn't mean we are "stumped." Perhaps we have better things, or more pressing and important thigns to deal with. Ever heard of finals? Life?</p>
<p>
[quote]
. Or is international prestige just recognition of the university in other foreign countries?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>International would be other nations than America.</p>
<p>Ask the same question for Mich and UCLA, although to a lesser extent, as Berkeley has a better reputation world-wide. The faculty. The research. The scholarship. The discoveries. The graduate programs and to a lesser extent the professional programs. The students who come out of here seeking PhDs (Berkeley is the single largest supplier of PhD students in the country, perhaps the world, at about 600 or so. </p>
<p>Not all countries at all times have had a "government is bad" or "private is the best" attitude. For example, in the past, the public French schools were the best French universities. The same was true of Japan, and is still somewhat true from what I hear. Don't assume everyone has those attitudes. International prestige seems to me to be largely due to a university's output in research, famous faculty, scholarship, discoveries, and graduate programs, as well as to a lesser extend undergraduate programs, of which Berkeley has some stellar and many great, as well as students, and Berkeley has many great future PhDs and professionals go through it.</p>
<p>This thread seems applicable, and there is an article in it worth reading. It even says Amerca is one of the few countries where private schools are considered the best.</p>
<p>Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) is public, all seven of them are and yet the most prestigious in india. and have earned a lot of name world wide too. So yeah i would agree with Drab, private isn't always better, and yeah oxford and cambridge happen to be public too. so yeah private isn't always the best.</p>
<p>and world famous is just name recognition not everyone knows about the research stuff, and besides how many smart people a university produces doesn't tell nothing about the university, people like einstien didn't even do well in grade school. research stuff is on the researcher not the universiy, The truth is no matter how much we deny rankings they are part of life, and we can't deny them, we can provide as many facts as we want here but at the end of the day, that one darn page on US news website will hold more water than all our facts and arguments would.</p>
<p>But that's sad and we can change perception. The article on cc showing class sizes at various schools shows how a few large publics fair compared to elite privates- and the difference is often small, but the perception of many is way off from reality. And you're saying that we should just let that slide?</p>
<p>well many don't read CC, heck many don't even know about CC, and yeah whatever we put here, people will consider it ivy-reject bias. so try all you want, but our arguments don't stand a chance to the US news crap.</p>
<p>Then we can do our best to change the US News nonsense, at least in ways that make sense and make the school better.</p>
<p>I don't why we are arguing with each other, both of us are UC students, and i think i will just back out now, but trust me not as many people know about CC as do about US news, so yeah good luck in your tries.</p>