UChicago v Cal v Cornell

College Search & Selection
1

Hi everyone,

So I have an extended time to SIR for all three schools because of personal family reasons, so I still have time to ask you all if you have any opinions on these schools. I have researched them (way too much) myself and have a pretty good idea of each school, but would love to hear some opinions on where you think would be best for me.

More about me:

-What I value the most: I value attending a prestigious college that I will be proud to say I attended, and that will propel me for life, my career, and doing something meaningful (aka change the world in some way). At the same time, I want to have a college experience that I really enjoy, so that I look back on my college experience as some of the best four years of my life.
-I live in California
-Interested in biology, business, and computer science (although slightly interested in other areas, such as: international relations, journalism, film/ TV writer–but I don’t think I would do a major in any of those)
-Really want a school that will allow me a lot of flexibility to choose a major in enough time, since I’m really not sure yet what I want to major in. I’m interested in so many things and want to try everything out, and definitely don’t want to graduate as the wrong major as it would seem hard to correct that.
-Do not care much about help/support given at private schools vs. public, since I am a go-getter and seek out opportunities and help whenever I need it. Also don’t care much about class sizes; I like the smaller and larger class setting.
-Want to go to grad school, not totally focused on being set up with a job right away
-I am not super big on frat parties, school spirit, or big football games, but I definitely want some of each to feel like I had a well rounded/ fulfilling college experience.
-I am a hard worker, love learning (but just to learn cool things/ feel fulfilled–not totally obsessed with the “life of the mind”), very social, love sports, love school spirit, love having fun, interested in so many things it’s hard to keep track. I live my life as a balance between working hard to feel fulfilled & learn lots/ propel my future, and having fun so I can remember every moment :slight_smile:

Cal:

Pros
-Strong business (amazing undergraduate business), biology, and CS programs
-Half the price of the two other schools
-Love the name brand and school spirit, always wanted to be a Golden Bear (just because of it being in my family/ in my surroundings though). Love the Cal vs. Stanford rivalry.
-Really cool students/ overall vibe
-Like the closeness to San Francisco
-International reputation/ well known to anyone on the street
-More of the typical college experience
-Solid alumni network since there are so many students.

Cons
-Less strong academically for undergraduate compared to UChicago
-Close to home/ not really stepping out of my comfort zone
-Easier to get in, more of a range of students, less of a wow factor when it comes to admissions

UChicago:

Pros
-Amazing academics, ranks above Cornell and Cal academically for undergraduate
-Surrounded by awesome, smart people. More of a wow factor acceptance rate wise (I feel like at Cal there is just a very wide range of students)
-Love the idea of leaving California and experiencing something really new; forces me to experience new weather/ places/ people
-The Core appeals to me, because it will allow me to really try out things and get an overall amazing education in many different subjects (I am not the kind of person that just wants to fixate on one)

Cons
-Not really a quirky person, so I’m not sure how I would fit in. Are there social people at UChicago?
-Not really interested in the “life of the mind”. I do love learning but am maybe not as intense/ an avid learner as some students at UChicago.
-No real school spirit/ emphasis on big sports, except in Scav/ intramural sports. This is something that is important to me, since I want to really feel part of a fun, spirited community. Does UChicago have some school spirit/ some emphasis on sports?
-So expensive, at least double Cal’s price
-Not really known on the street, and I’ve always wanted to be proud of saying where I go to college to anyone :wink: . Is this true?
-Not really the typical college experience
-Less strong alumni network. Is this true?

Cornell

Pros
-Ivy league school. This is something that could help me for my whole life, and it definitely contributes to a very strong alumni network.
-Great school spirit, similar to Cal
-Gets me out of my comfort zone, forces me to experience new weather/ places/ people
-Good undergraduate business. Anyone know about biology/ CS?
-Known on the street
-Prestigious nationally (more than Berkeley, less than UChicago), maybe not as much internationally as Cal
-Maybe more of a wow factor than Berkeley but less than UChicago admissions-wise

Cons
-In the middle of nowhere. I really felt it when I visited, it seems that Ithaca is just a stand-alone town, and it takes at least 1-2 hours through grassy fields to get anywhere metropolitan. I feel like this might hinder my college experience, since I love being near cities and don’t really see many pros to being so isolated for my college experience. I can already see myself feeling so suffocated and regretting forcing myself into that college experience. Could anyone speak on this?
-Lowest Ivy league; inferiority complex. Could anyone speak on this?
-Expensive, at least double Cal’s price

So, as you can see, for me there are pros and cons to each school. At this point, I’m really wondering (a few questions mentioned above):

-What is more important: Ivy league prestige (Does going to an ivy league matter that much anymore?), international prestige, national/ academic prestige, laymen prestige?
-Am I correct in how I analyzed prestige at each school? Is there really that significant of a prestige difference between each school? Should I just be focusing on other factors instead of prestige?
-Is UChicago really that nerdy? Would I fit in not being a quirky person totally obsessed with the “life of mind”? Does it have much of a social scene/ parties/ big football games/ school spirit? Is there anyone out there who goes to UChicago who is similar to me (social, not really super interested in life of the mind?)
-How good are biology/CS at Cornell? Is Berkeley really the best school for biology, business, and CS?
-Is there really an inferiority complex at Cornell?
-Should I weigh prestige higher than anything else and just attend UChicago, knowing that college is what I make of it and that I will still make my own fun?
-How is the alumni network at each school?
-Will the prestige of these schools change at all in the near future?
-Lastly, what do you think would be the best place for me?

Thanks for your help :slight_smile: Sorry this is so long!

2

I’d go to Cal. These schools are really very comparable – you may take Cal for granted since you are from CA, but it is very highly regarded. You don’t seem like the UChicago type, either (and I have a kid who got in there, too). Save your parents’ money, go to Cal.

3

^^^I agree. It sounds like Cal is the best fit at the best price.

4

Pay attention to entry-to-major requirements at each school.

For example, if you are in the UCB College of Letters and Science, getting into the CS major requires a 3.3 GPA in the prerequisite courses, and getting into the business major requires a competitive admission process. Cornell may have some restrictions on some majors as well.

Prestige-wise, they are all well regarded, but it can depend on what region you are in or want to be in and what major.

Also, are they all affordable without loans exceeding the federal direct loans?

5

@intparent Thanks for the advice! Do you think that the whole vibe that is known about UChicago (it being very intense academically, students are quirky, life of the mind) is really true or instead a stereotype? I’m concerned about choosing against UChicago based on what I’ve heard online/ around, since I think there is a wide range of students at any school, and if I find my group it’ll be fine (am I right in thinking this?)

6

Thanks for the advice @happy1 ! And @ucbalumnus that’s definitely useful, thank you. I think that at this point, I really don’t know what region I’d like to be in, since I’m interested in living lots of different places and want to go to a college that is strong everywhere. Do you think going to Cal might lessen my opportunities on the east coast? I’ve heard that there, ivy leagues are more highly regarded. Also, Berkeley is affordable without loans, and UChicago and Cornell are both affordable now with loans–but the loans might hinder my paying for grad school/ ventures after college.

7

How much in loans would you need at Chicago and Cornell?

8

5,000 a year.

9

I think that type of person is happiest at UChicago.

10

UChicago is intense. Very few people care about watching varsity sports. Many students are surprised to hear that there is a varsity football team. The Zombies vs Humans nerf gun fight is bigger. Club sports are great for those in them. But no one else cares. There is spirit but it is dorm, club, sport, house, based. Lots of little apartment parties, few big parties/events. Yale math majors relieved they don’t go to UChicago.

All your choices are fine for east coast.

11

On the good side. Academics at UChicago are amazing. Teachers amazing. First year grades tough. Lots of academic opportunity.

12

There are unquirky people at UChicago . There are people like you. You just have to be aware of the overall atmosphere. There are happy people there. And there are stressed people. Some people are very social. Most of them care a lot about academics. Some care about wall street.

13

Cal… why would you pay double for an equivalent education?

I also think your evaluations of prestige, reputation and relative academic strength are off the mark… I don’t think there is any discernible measurable difference between these 3 with regard to rigor, reputation, prestige. They definitely are very different in campus vibe… but I think any distinctions in quality are splitting hairs.

14

Seems that the biggest pro con items are:

UCB: has all desired majors, least expensive, no debt, but high GPA or competitive admission for some majors

Chicago: no apparent entry barriers to majors (but check), but no business and more expensive with debt

Cornell: has all desired majors, may have some entry barriers to majors (but check), more expensive with debt

15

Sure you can find unquirky people at Chicago, but why would you pay more to go to a school of approximately the same academic calibre and a worse social fit?

16

Sure you can find unquirky people at Chicago, but why would you pay more to go to a school of approximately the same academic calibre and a worse social fit?

17

They are all equal in prestige. Choose Berkeley for the cheaper tuition.

18

You have said twice that you are not into the life of the mind. The UChicago atmosphere is real. It is hard enough for those that like the idea, or for people who are just mindless money chasers. You are neither. I would suggest you will be happier at Cornell or Cal. You will have plenty of tools for success at either. Best wishes on your future success. You are obviously very talented.

19

If I am hearing you correctly, your debt would be about $20,000 (plus travel costs…) total if you were to choose UChicago or Cornell?

Still, that’s $20,000+ you could be saving for grad school. To overcome that, you need to favor either Cornell or UChicago over Cal. If they are even, Cal is the smart choice. Things to consider:

  • You've stated that you don't care about class size. That would have been a factor in UChicago's favor especially and in Cornell's to a lesser extent. But if it doesn't matter to you, those brownie points for the privates vanish.
  • You've said (paraphrasing) that you do not consider yourself to be someone who relishes academic rigor. Well that is something you will get in heavy doses at UChicago: by reputation, at least, it is among the most rigorous schools in the US.
  • You have said you'd like to venture out into the world. That does point to either Cornell or UChicago.
  • UChicago does not, as ucbalumnus pointed out, have a BBA program. However, you could major in Economics -- one of the top undergraduate Econ departments in the world -- and take some Booth master's classes, in things like Finance and Marketing, to help make it a more rounded, BBA-like education. That definitely mitigates Chicago's lack of a Business or Business Admin major.
  • It is, by reputation here on CC, easier for UChicago and Cornell students to choose some majors than it is to get into the more competitive majors at Cal. I encourage you to check on that because if you do change your mind, or if you do choose one of the selective majors at Cal, you might have a hard time being admitted to it.

So as I see it, UChicago and Cornell have the following advantages over Cal:

  • A new experience in a new environment
  • Easier, possibly, to get into the major you desire. Also easier, possibly, to change majors while there.

UChicago vs. Cornell

  • UChicago is not as rah-rah about sports
  • UChicago is in a large city with lots of cultural and dining opportunities, while Cornell is rural, with fewer of both.
  • UChicago has the rep of being more rigorous generally.
  • Cornell has a bit more of a “normal” party scene, while apparently UChicago’s party scene is more intimate/low-key

Advantages for Cal:

  • Lower cost
  • D1 sports as entertainment
  • The ability to take a day off and just chill – if you skip a class, nobody will care. (so – anonymity)

All three are great academically. I think you should choose based on fit, with Cal out to the early lead due to the lower cost.

20

tbh you seem like the kinda kid who would especially thrive at UChicago and I think I’m almost exactly like you. However, I feel like you’d thrive anywhere.

Something to really consider is the whole major thing. I have heard terrible things about changing majors at Berkeley. If you have trouble taking the required courses should you change your idea of your major you may end up having to stay there for extra time, losing money in tuition and income you could be earning. Do some rough estimations, I thought the loss in income and from tuition from staying extra was trivial before I sat down and wrote down the numbers.

However, double the cost is quite a difference.

There is no wrong choice here and you’re incredibly fortunate to be in a position like this! Good Luck with your decision!