interesting. I think my son would be happier at Chicago–he also values the core and the research opportunities. His college counselor says that Chicago has everything Princeton has and isn’t stuck in the last century. He visited over snowdays and liked it tremendously. I think it will be very affirming to meet other admitted students on sunday. He has a keen sense of the kind of social environment he wants and that seems (to me) more Chicago than Princeton.
As you noted, Chicago’s core differs from Princeton’s distribution requirements. For that matter, it differs even from Columbia’s (more rigid and universal) common core.
That’s only one difference of many, however. Another key difference is that Princeton requires a senior thesis of all students. In other words, all students must begin a research project their junior year (the junior paper), continued over the summer and into their senior year, that serves as a culmination of their undergraduate education. It’s a rigorous and demanding project. While Chicago students have the option of pursuing a senior thesis, it is not required.
Partly as a consequence of the above, Princeton does not allow double majors. However, it does offer a “certificate” program in numerous fields (sort of halfway between a major and minor). If double majoring is of critical importance, this is something to consider.
As others have said, the locations/settings of the two universities are significantly different, of course. Additionally, Chicago has Greek life (albeit relatively small), whereas Princeton does not officially recognize frats and sororities. Its “eating clubs,” which serve somewhat the same role in the social scene, are nearly unique.
For those who have an idea of what they’d possibly like to study, it is worthwhile to compare academic offerings. For example, the undergraduate program in public policy at Princeton is housed within Woody Woo, and students have access to the classes and professors of the school. The undergraduate program in public policy at Chicago is a program within the College, and the courses are consequently a blend of relevant programs (econ, poli sci, sociology, and the like).
Although both are almost uniformly strong in their academic offerings, you’ll find slight diferences in their programs – an edge for Princeton in art history, an edge for Chicago in anthropology, an edge for Princeton in philosophy, an edge for Chicago in linguistics, etc. I certainly wouldn’t place a lot of weight on this, if any at all, but it may be something to consider for a kid with a very strong passion for a particular field.
The quarter system (Chicago) vs. semester system (Princeton) is a key difference. Quarters allow students to take courses in more topics, but the semester system allows for a much more in-depth coverage of material. The fast pace of the quarter system means students are nearly always prepping for an exam or writing a term paper. Having experienced both systems, I greatly prefer the semester system both as a student and instructor. That said, I’m sure some feel the opposite.
You’ll find a lot of very hardworking, intelligent kids at both. The Chicago of today is very different even from the Chicago of about a decade ago, and its student body is much more similar to those of the Ivies than different. They produce similar percentages of PhDs; a recent ranking placed Princeton and Chicago #5 and #6 among national universities for per capita PhD production, respectively.
Legacies make up slightly less than 10% of each class at Princeton. That figure is well in line with peer universities such as Yale (12% are legacies).
Princeton has extremely devoted alumni and has traditionally had the highest giving rate in the country, with only a few LACs coming close. This fierce alum loyalty may have contributed to his misconception. (It’s also a reason Princeton has the largest endowment per capita of any college in the US, which shows if you visit campus.)
I don’t agree at all with this assessment of Princeton. The elite universities keep themselves abreast of the latest scientific and research developments and the most recent trends in academia and adjust themselves accordingly. That is, after all, a major reason why they have survived as long as they have. Who would believe today that Yale and Amherst were virtually the same size during most of the 1800s? (Yale’s total enrollment did not surpass 2000 students until approximately the time Chicago was founded.)
In fact, Princeton is arguably better positioned than most for this century. In addition to being extremely strong in all of the sciences, it’s stronger in engineering than most of the Ivies and comparable private universities. STEM degrees are going to be of increased importance in upcoming decades.
Having a 3rd year at UChicago, and his two close friends at Princeton, I would agree with everything warblersrule has said.
thank you so much for the in-depth commentary, it’s extraordinary. My kid will find out in a week whether he has a decision to make, but meanwhile he’s got some things to think about. His counselor’s comment, I think, referred to the social atmosphere, rightly or wrongly. I think the education at both institutions is incredibly rich and intellectually satisfying.
@zzzmmm may I ask which school your son chose?
I wouldn’t spend 36k more on Chicago if your son is still excited about the prospect of attending Princeton. That money will come in handy when its time to go to graduate school.
@NerdyChica I know this is too late for OP’s decision, but this is something I see a lot.
THERE IS NO REASON FOR MOST FAMILIES TO COMPARE STICKER PRICES AT TOP-TIER COLLEGES. NONE.
It looks like @zzzmmm only compared each school’s full price tuition (a flawed metric in itself, since the room and board costs at uChicago are also higher) and saw Princeton’s $42k vs. uChicago’s $50k.
Both of these schools are no-loan schools that will match demonstrated financial need with grants, work-study, and scholarships. What they cost full price is irrelevant. The only number that matters is their financial aid offer to you. So please, before you consider cost in a decision like this, wait until you have an actual offer. Or, if you are deciding whether or not to apply, do some research about the individual school’s financial aid policy. Harvard brags about how it’s cheaper for 99% of Americans than going to a state school.
Princeton. No contest.
@CautiousOptimist There is a major flaw in your argument and that is how colleges determine “need”. They vary tremendously. Chicago and Harvard are no loan universities but many students wind up borrowing because the universities expect too high parental contributions. The financial aid budgets are also very tight, so what they say it should cost to attend often is much less than it really does. You have to borrow the difference.
I agree that the decision will have to be one driven by the fit of the college to the applicant. Both financial fit and environmental/academic fit. Things are very much an individual choice determined by the uniqueness of that particular individual or familial circumstance.
As for our family, my D would have been miserable at Princeton. And we would have qualified for no financial aid there and of course the Ivy League offers no merit. Everything that she read about Princeton made it clear to her that this would be a terrible environmental fit for her. The last piece of information about eating clubs made it the last nail in the coffin. Not that she would have gotten in. But she was looking at all possibilities.
On the other hand, the more she found out about UChicago the more interested she became. She initially was not looking into going to a school in a big city. Also, UChicago is still one of the few offering merit scholarships. So that was definitely enough to put it on the list and apply.
It seems presumptuous to just say"Princeton. No contest". There is more to consider than just having bragging rights to an Ivy League application/acceptance.
This is an old thread… Sorry but posted because of updates. Wonder where he ended up?
@excanuck99 Okay… So, what, how much higher do you think these schools are going to expect the family to pay for beyond EFC? If your problem is with the FAFSA EFC you should be blaming the Department of Education, not the school. And if you’re living on-campus (which at a school like these nearly everyone does–Princeton has 98% living on-campus) costs should be pretty much on-target given things like housing are pretty cut-and-dry: the university sets a price and sticks to it, it’s not as though they’re taking the cheap run-down apartment in a bad neighborhood as the standard cost of housing.
Outside of tuition and room+board, most of the costs are pretty flexible. Sure, maybe you’ll spend more on textbooks than they estimate. A few hundred. General hygiene products – deodorant, toothpaste, contact solution, etc… Maybe another couple hundred over the course of a year. Maybe you’ll want to go out to eat more frequently, and spend more there. Optional expense. Maybe you’ll want a new shiny MacBook instead of a less flashy, less expensive laptop. Optional expense. Maybe you’ll want to spend more on clothes than you really need to. Optional expense.
First of all, even if you do splurge on those things on credit, it’s insane to compare a couple of thousand in optional spending to the sixty grand sticker price of a year at one of these institutions. Second, it’s not financial aid’s job to give every student a stipend to go live like a king. Financial aid is there so there aren’t students choosing between going somewhere else and taking a quarter million in loans. Third, I think you’ll find they’re likely more generous than they should be expected to. Princeton’s Financial Aid even will help students pay for the Eating Clubs: social clubs completely unaffiliated with the university. Even if you think they “expect” too much, unless they are off by multiple thousands of dollars, they are still doing an impressive job. And the core of my argument is still perfectly valid: wait and compare their actual financial aid offers, not their sticker price.
Sorry, I just get really into this issue.
@goingnutsmom as a deferred SCEA Princeton applicant, what was the “last piece of information about Eating Clubs” that turned your daughter away? Not to criticize her decision, everyone will have their own preferences, just wondering what it is so I can consider it if I happen to be treated to an acceptance in spring.
It just sounded elitist I think. We had read somethings about it and we were discussing it too. The eating clubs drive the social life I believe. Interestingly enough, my daughter was totally turned off by the eating clubs but another girl that I was assisting with college apps was totally intrigued with them. She even went out and bought a Princeton hoodie and started wearing it. So you never know what’s going to capture a kids attention.
My S thought that the UChicago prompts were trying way too hard to be quirky and my daughter loved the idea behind them. He ended up in a college that stresses pre professional majors and she is going to end up probably in a college that stresses the liberal arts. I thought it would be the other way around. But they both listened to my advise as well as I encouraged them to find a good fit. It’s all good.