UChicago vs. Brown vs. Pomona

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi! Can anyone (hopefully past or current students) give input on these three schools concerning these areas:</p>

<p>quality of professors and classroom experience, research opportunities, prestige, student life and housing style, campus life, city life, career/course advising, med school admittance, and just the general feel of the school and the students?</p>

<p>I'm aware that many students change their minds later on, but as of now I'm interested in majoring in Neuroscience/Cognitive Science. </p>

<p>Thank you very much :)</p>

2

<p>I have a feeling that going to a comprehensive research university is better than going to an LAC specially if one is concentrating in STEM. So, in this regard, I’d go for Chicago, if not Brown, in spite of the fact that Pomona is as amazing as the Ives are, and is in California, which for me, is the better State than Illinois or RI. At major research powerhouses like Chicago (and I think Brown is getting there), I can imagine the opportunities the school can provide to their enthusiastic and very eager students. </p>

<p>Ever thought of considering Johns Hopkins and Duke? If you have the stats to get into Brown, you have a decent shot either Duke or JHU, or at both.</p>

3

<p>As far as Neuroscience/Cognitive Science goes, I can’t speak much about Pomona but I would say Brown>UChicago. I’ve been accepted to UChicago and have yet to hear from Brown, so I would say if anything I would be biased towards the other direction. I also have an intended interest in Neuro btw. Brown has a dedicated Neuroscience major as well as the Open Curriculum that would allow you to take more classes similar to your interests. UChicago has a comp. neuro minor as well as a specialization in Biology but no dedicated major in cog science or neuro. Brown is also renowned for its neuroscience whereas UChicago is not. Research opportunities at both universities are great. I think that overall, if accepted to all of these colleges, you can’t really go wrong, however, I would personally decide towards Brown if I happen to be accepted.</p>

4

<p>I don’t know about Brown because I wasn’t considering it, but I considered both Chicago and Pomona (tough decision alongside Stanford) and I chose Pomona! I am also going for the neuroscience track, one of Pomona’s strongest departments, but also one of its most intense majors.</p>

<p>First thing- all three are super selective with last year’s admit rate ranging from 8.9%-13.2%. It’s a serious accomplishment to get into all three. For most students the decision is made easier when they are waitlisted or denied by one or two of these schools. </p>

<p>Quality of Professors: Pomona professors are nurturing and teach exclusively in the school. They are much more accessible. Chicago professors are more accomplished in their fields and compared to other top schools I visited more intimate with their students, but no place I visited beats Pomona.</p>

<p>Classroom Experience: Similar in both. Liberal arts focus and a high emphasis on critical thinking, discussion, experiential learning, and writing. Chicago intro/mid-level classes are much bigger but overall upper level classes tend to be about the same size. </p>

<p>Research Opportunities: Pomona has more money per capita allocated to undergraduate research. Research is extremely important and the school funds research for a good 75-80% of the student body in their 4 years at Pomona. Pomona’s facilities are among the best for a school of its size. Chicago’s facilities are better but the better facilities aren’t usually available to undergraduates. More teachers at Chicago however means more varied research opportunities, though Pomona students also often do research at Harvey Mudd/Caltech.</p>

<p>Prestige- To the common person, Chicago is more well-known than Pomona is, but not as much as schools like Harvard. To the top employers and graduate programs, both schools are extremely respected.</p>

<p>Student life and housing- Pomona has a more typical college life (social outings, movies, parties, dances, clubs, etc) while Chicago’s is more academic. Social scene is more vibrant at Pomona, though nightlife outside campus is probably better at Chicago. Life at Pomona is considerably improved by the consortium, especially with gems like the Athenaeum at CMC. Housing is better at Pomona- more singles, more space, more furnished than Chicago. </p>

<p>Campus life- pretty similar in both. Chicago is a little bit more intense than Pomona is, academically, but academics are the dominating force at both schools. Chicago students make good use of their Hyde Park surrounding especially for dining, Pomona and the 5C’s are somewhat of a bubble. </p>

<p>City life- Chicago is more accessible and better than designed than LA. Pomona students enjoy a more varied scene though-snow capped mountains, lakes, national parks, deserts, ocean, city life, beaches no more than an hour away. </p>

<p>Career/Course advising- I don’t know about Chicago, but Pomona’s administration treats the students like royalty. Truly cares about them.</p>

<p>Med School Admittance- 75-80% at Chicago, more than 94% at Pomona (admittance brochure states that Pomona students are more than twice as likely to get into med school than the average applicant, which is 47%). Low Chicago rate could be attributed to tougher curves and grading standards. Pomona’s pre-med advising committee is fantastic.</p>

<p>General feel- In terms of student body, Pomona students are more well-rounded and social, while Chicago students are more quirky. Both schools have predominantly mainstream intellectuals while Chicago has more of the hard-core intellectuals. Pomona students are extremely happy and love their school, while Chicago students tend to be a bit more serious but also love their school. Pomona students are more laid-back and competitive in a good self-fulfilling way. Diversity, both socioeconomically and racially, are about equal in both schools. Claremont consortium makes for an extremely diverse setting. There is no typical Pomona student, but really, there isn’t a typical Chicago student either (just look at the difference in scenes between Snell-Hitchcock and South Campus).</p>

<p>I don’t know what Chicago’s mission as a school is. For Pomona, it seems to be about providing a world-class education in a low-stress setting, supplemented with an insane amount of money to maximize student potential. The school funds just about anything and spend more per student (around 83000) than it actually charges a year. Pomona students define the school’s reputation, while Chicago’s reputation exists well outside of the student body. That was a huge factor for me because it makes Pomona a lot more individual.</p>

<p>Oh, and neuroscience! Pomona has probably the best neuroscience program of any liberal arts college. The faculty is amazing and the facility where it is taught, Lincoln-Edmunds, is one of the nicest academic buildings I have seen. The only thing is that the requirements are very intense (only 8 double neuro majors since 2001, out of 500-650 neuroscience students) and you can’t start a neuroscience class until you’re a sophomore, since all students must do intro bio/chem regardless of AP or IB scores.</p>

5

<p>Also, in counter to RML’s post, STEM is extremely popular at Pomona! If you look at the declared majors just for this semester (<a href=“http://www.pomona.edu/administration/registrar/reports-statistics/majors-minors/declared-majors.pdf[/url]”>http://www.pomona.edu/administration/registrar/reports-statistics/majors-minors/declared-majors.pdf&lt;/a&gt;) the most popular are Economics, Math, Psychology, Neuroscience, Environmental Analysis, Molecular Bio, Bio, and Chem, in that order. All except econ are all considered science majors with EA being an interdisciplinary.</p>

6

<p>Thank you! Wow, Pomona sounds lovely ^ ^</p>

<p>In terms of major, I’m leaning toward Brown/Pomona (for Cognitive Science and Neuroscience, respectively). I would enjoy a major such as CS and am considering med school, but I think part of the reason why is that I just don’t know about all my other career options. On the other hand, I’ve heard not to choose a school for a certain major because most students end up changing their minds.</p>

<p>Admittedly, though I’m looking forward to a challenging classroom experience, I feel like I’d enjoy a more relaxed and friendly environment - so Brown or Pomona would be better in those terms? Would all three give similar liberal arts educations?</p>

<p>Also, what were your favorite and least favorite things about each school?</p>

7

<p>I think Pomona is great for you, then! One important difference among the three schools is curriculum requirements. Brown is completely open, Pomona has a breadth requirement system, and Chicago has the core. I think Pomona’s system is really balanced- the breadth classes can be any in a given field, and the school encourages students to go out of their comfort zone. </p>

<p>I would think that Brown would have more classes than Pomona would, but Pomona’s options are expanded by the Claremont Consortium. You should compare the major requirements and courses offered at all three schools to see which you prefer.</p>

<p>All three schools have extremely high retention rates (98% at Brown, 99% at Chicago, 99% at Pomona from the Peterson Undergraduate Database) so I’m guessing there isn’t too much of a difference in student satisfaction. Brown and Pomona perennially rank on Princeton Review and Daily Beast’s Happiest student/Students love their college/best quality of life lists, while Chicago appears once in a while. </p>

<p>Pomona has no cutthroatness. None, at all. The classes are difficult and really demand collaborative work. In terms of a relaxed and friendly environment, I don’t see how you can get any better- a great administration, nurturing professors, classes which make everyone’s role significant, sunshine, collaborative and friendly students. I’ll let the others comment on the other two.</p>

<p>For Pomona, my favorite thing is how balanced it is! The school feels bigger than a traditional liberal arts college because the Claremont Colleges are literally across the street. We have 7 dining halls, 8 student-run cafes and stores, and a countless array of events sponsored by each school. Yet regardless of these benefits it’s definitely a liberal arts college- collaborative nurturing community, small classes. Pomona’s location is great- it’s in a really safe and beautiful town with a good assortment of stores and restaurants for the students, and LA is not inconvenient to get to (train station is a block away). Pomona on it’s own is really exceptional- the largest endowment per student of a LAC and in the top 4 in the nation, which can really be felt. Amazing facilities for a school of its size. Many opportunities to pursue student research and SoCal internships. Students are academically very diverse, with a 40:40:10 ratio in STEM:Humanities:Interdisciplinary. Social scene offers something for every student whether or not you like drugs.</p>

<p>Least favorite thing- this took me quite a while. I would say that the Consortium isn’t as seamless as it may appear. Class registration, especially at CMC and Harvey Mudd, can be a hassle. Furthermore, Pomona is not as likely to interact with the other 5C’s for whatever reason. The other schools attribute it to elitism, I attribute it to the fact that Pomona has just about everything making it a bit inconvenient to go to the others.</p>

8

<p>debakianmj, allow me to clarify what I said about powerhouse research schools vs LACs. </p>

<p>I think both types of schools offer opportunities for research. And, based on ratio, there’s a chance that LACs may register better in terms of student participation, though that is still subject to further scrutiny and debate. </p>

<p>The benefits of attending in a major research powerhouse schools such as Brown and Chicago are that the level of research conducted at those schools are generally higher, better, often world-class. The undergrad students are often integrated with the grad and postgrad students working and collaborating world-class research works often sponsored by either federal grants or giant private companies. In short, the level of exposure one may get at major research powerhouses is higher, giving them more opportunities for further concentration on their subject field. The honors students enrolled in the honors class at major research universities conduct research works with grad/postgrad students supervised by a leading researcher in the field. This is something that LACs can hardly compete given their size, limited facilities, limited researchers, limited funding and limited connection with sponsors. That said, I have heard a lot of amazing feedback about Pomona and how it is in a much better position than most LACs and its peers. Add to that that Pomona has a gorgeous campus, superb amenities, and is in Southern Cali, which has a great weather - sunshine!!! But personally, I would choose to go to Brown amongst the given choices.</p>

9

<p>I agree with you, RML! Pomona is nowhere near the typical LAC though because it does have the money, students interested in research, and facilities. </p>

<p>Research at Pomona works a little differently than at top universities. Instead of focusing on the field or the professor, it focuses directly on the undergraduates. Most undergraduates have little to no research experience and Pomona makes it a learning experience with a special highlight on critical thinking. In later years, as students gain this hands-on experience and the techniques to deal with graduate-level research, entire classes are devoted exclusively to research. These are independent of senior thesis. Nearly every teacher at Pomona has published extensively and has research specialties and lab space, so it’s not hard at all to land a research position even as a freshmen. I like this approach because it really prepares one for graduate level work. </p>

<p>For the genius types that have went above and beyond research expectations of a typical undergraduate student, the school funds independent research ([Student/Faculty</a> Summer Research Opportunities - Pomona College](<a href=“http://www.pomona.edu/administration/academic-dean/research/surp/about-student-research.aspx]Student/Faculty”>Student Research Opportunities | Pomona College in Claremont, California - Pomona College)). It also funds unpaid research opportunities at other universities and research institutions for summer research. Many students pursue research in the SoCal area through the Pomona College Internship Program. These students chose Pomona because it really provides the individual attention and education to thrive at these settings and the money to fund their dreams. The school has its own Summer Undergraduate Research Program which sponsors 100-150 students (a lot out of a total size of 1500). The Claremont Consortium also enhances research opportunities as Keck and Harvey Mudd both offer a similar deal as Pomona.</p>

<p>I visited Chicago, Columbia, Stanford, and Rice and was disappointed by how few undergraduates have access to the cutting edge research seen in graduate programs. Caltech was an exception but I turned it down because a balanced education outside of STEM was important for me.</p>

10

<p>

</p>

<p>The University’s motto expresses it succinctly:
Let knowledge grow from more to more; and so be human life enriched.</p>

<p>Chicago has a tradition of reflecting on the aims of liberal education and its institutional mission.<br>
[Aims</a> of Education | The University of Chicago](<a href=“Aims of Education”>http://aims.uchicago.edu/)</p>

<p>Several institutional structures reinforce Chicago’s approach to the “Life of the Mind”. These start with the Aims of Education address but also include the Common Core, the appointment of faculty to The College (there are majors but no undergraduate departments, just “The College”), classes emphasizing discussion of primary source materials, the absence of pre-professional majors, and a long tradition of interdisciplinary research & instruction (<a href=“https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/academics/majorsminors/bigproblems.shtml[/url]”>https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/academics/majorsminors/bigproblems.shtml&lt;/a&gt;). </p>

<p>Chicago has the smallest percentage of large classes of any T20 national university (< 5% with 50 or more students), and a higher percentage of small classes (under 20 students) than Pomona. It rewards excellence in undergraduate teaching ([Llewellyn</a> John and Harriet Manchester Quantrell Awards for Excellence in Undergraduate Teaching | The University of Chicago](<a href=“Page Not Found | University of Chicago”>Llewellyn John and Harriet Manchester Quantrell Awards for Excellence in Undergraduate Teaching | University of Chicago)). So you get the best of both worlds: LAC-like undergraduate focus within a world-class research university (in a well thought-out program that has been continuously refined for decades.)</p>

<p>Research opportunities?
<a href=“Search the Fellowship Opportunity Database | College Center for Research and Fellowships | The University of Chicago”>Search the Fellowship Opportunity Database | College Center for Research and Fellowships | The University of Chicago;

11

<p>I have no idea how strong UChicago is in terms of Neuroscience, but I can attest to the LAC like nature of the Core, at least in regards to Humanities and Social Sciences class (haven’t taken any Sciences yet). All core Hum and Sosc classes are capped at 19 students, and pretty much all consist of sitting in a huge round table and having group discussions about the texts. The professors are excellent and always give you a lot of feedback on your work, to the point where I’ve seen even A level essays (a rare sight, but not as impossible as some might assume) receive a whole page of comments. While the format is definitely not unique to UChicago, I recently spoke to students from two other highly top ranked schools (one of them an LAC, both top 10 in their categories) and they were surprised I was getting this experience as a freshman.</p>

12

<p>

My nephew got in touch with professors before his freshman year at Rice and was invited to start working in a lab during freshman orientation. Before the end of the year he was on NPR talking about his work in the lab. </p>

<p>

Of all the schools my two kids applied to Chicago was the one that IMO was most clear about what its mission was. Not just through the core and the courses they offer, but with every piece of paper they sent to us. Chicago is in the business of educating intellectuals who will be able to talk intelligently not just about their speciality, but in all the areas that make you an educated person.</p>

13

<p>PMCM, which LACs are you referring to? At Pomona that’s definitely the case- even the A papers that I’ve rarely gotten have a ton of comments on them. This factor is really dependent on the teacher though, no matter what school you go to…</p>

<p>Mathmom, I don’t disagree that research positions aren’t hard to get. I’m talking however about access to the best facilities on campus and the most cutting edge, extensively developed research- while these are strengths of research powerhouses, they often aren’t available to undergraduates. Caltech was an exception- their facilities were stunning and graduate/undergraduate coexistence that RML points out was noticeable. To be fair though, this is based on 2-3 day admit program + a few student perspectives so I could be wrong.</p>

14

<p>The student is from Bowdoin. It might just be that he’s an exception. As I said, UChicago’s Core is LAC LIKE, so I’m not trying to say that this isn’t typical for LAC’s. My intention is not to put down Pomona or other LAC’s, I was ultimately between Swarthmore and UChicago and chose UChicago partly because the Core guaranteed an LAC like education for the first few years. Just as small, discussion based classes are probably the norm in good LAC’s, they are a guaranteed part of the UChicago education. The page long comments on essays are pretty standard too, no matter the professor. Of course, some people might not be so lucky and get some not-so-amazing professors, but most of my friends and I have had great experiences so far. I’m sure the OP would receive an excellent education in Pomona or Brown, I just wanted to reassure him/her that UChicago is capable of providing a similar classroom experience. Also, OP, I suggest you post this on the sections of all schools so that you can get more detailed answers.</p>

15

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</p>

<p>Thomas R. Cech, Distinguished Professor of Chemistry and Biochemistry at the
University of Colorado (Boulder) argues the opposite position:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.thecollegesolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/cech_article2.pdf[/url]”>http://www.thecollegesolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/cech_article2.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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</p>

<p>This distinction may not apply too well to the OP’s choice, since both Chicago and Brown often are characterized as “LAC-like”. However, I think that in general LACs are worth serious consideration for science and math majors.</p>

16

<p>I apologize if you have already done so, but I would recommend applying and getting accepted to all of these schools before making the decision. And visiting would help, too. </p>

<p>Sent from my DROID RAZR using CC</p>