<p>Hmm, I like the name "UChicago" (U of Chicago is okay, I suppose). In fact, before O-Week, I thought that's what it was called by most students. "U of C" is too similar to "UC" (i.e. Cali). Switching to a name in which Chicago is present would increase prestige, however, as it would get more recognition almost undoubtedly. That's what kind of irks me about Zimmer -- it seems that a lot of things he does is solely to boost our rankings and prestige, whereas many of the students really don't care.</p>
<p>melonparkmom says</p>
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I only inferred that Brown is considered "prestigious" because some people tend to think that "Ivy" = "prestige".
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<p>This is one of the most outrageous statements I have ever heard here. Brown IS prestigious because of its high academic standards, the quality and competitiveness of the student body, its world renown faculty, its innovative Open Curriculum, its high selectivity on admissions, its very low acceptance rate, its beautiful campus, the suburban feel of a quaint, artsy town full of history, the fact that is the 7th oldest university in the country and.... YES, the fact that it belongs to the very prestigious IVY LEAGUE, which happens to be, as a group, the BEST association of schools in the world.</p>
<p>Snap out into reality. It seems that it is very hard for you to do.....but to anyone that matters "ivy" does equal "prestige". Besides that, Brown is very prestigious on its own merit.</p>
<p>phuriku, thanks for answering my questions!</p>
<p>Pyewacket, maybe I haven't been reading these threads enough, but I'd appreciate if you state your affiliation/ area of expertise. I get really finnicky when people make comments about other schools without stating how and why they know what they know (and also pointing out the limitations of what they know). If you get a chance to read this thread again, I'd be quite happy if you share your experiences with both schools. I'm not trying to contradict you here, but I'm curious on what basis you draw your conclusions.</p>
<p>My favorite labeling for Chicago is U(C)-- (read it as a math nerd would). I've only seen old-timers use it, but I love it nonetheless.</p>
<p>Chicago, U of Chicago, U of C, Chicago comma University of, that school on the south side, it doesn't really matter what you call it.</p>
<p>An addendum-- Chicago has been an amazing school for me socially. I am a chatty introvert-- a little bit of socializing and partying is lots of fun, too much of it is extremely uncomfortable and alienating. I love meeting new people, but I also need a lot of downtime to myself. I've found Chicago's social scene to be low-key and enjoyable... I meet lots of people, but when I need to withdraw a bit the social scene is not totally in my face. As aspiring mentioned, there are good parties to be found. And, oh yeah-- a whole city to explore.</p>
<p>Let's face it: I'm in college to have a good time, but I'm also here to learn how to balance my life without parental guidance and I'm here to read John Milton. My impression is that colleges in general are roller-coasters between massive parties and cram sessions. I really don't go for either extreme, nor do I think either is that healthy or conducive to a good college experience.</p>
<p>"but to anyone that matters "ivy" does equal "prestige"."
Spoken like a true Ivy snob. By the way, my son, who WAS accepted at Brown and Dartmouth, decided to matriculate elsewhere, in great part because he could not abide people with attitudes like yours. He is at the University of Chicago. Where you go to college does not annoit you as "someone who matters". Sheesh, get over yourself.</p>
<p>unalove:</p>
<p>Basis of my remarks: I spent 6 years at Brown as a grad student. I do alum interviews for them. My two best hs friends and several other friends since then did their BAs at U Chicago and have discussed their experiences with me.</p>
<p>Limitation: most of these experiences were a long time ago. Some evidence on this board that Chicago has become more "social" in recent years. But one friend said that cold winters in Chicago kept people indoors more rather than hanging out around campus where you could meet friends.</p>
<p>I think it's important to note that, despite their diametrically different curriculum designs, and the Ivy-non-Ivy thing, and their very different geographical settings within their cities, Brown and Chicago are far, far more alike than they are different. Most of the differences are window-dressing, and attempting to calibrate their relative prestige is like counting the angels on the head of a pin. I believe that if by magic the student bodies of the two colleges were switched on night, no more than maybe 5% of the Chicago kids and 20% of the Brown kids would be seriously dissatisfied with their experience. Obviously, a number of the Brown kids would just hate all the Core requirements, but my guess is that most of them would like the broad-ranging, cross-disciplinary, "big questions" aspect of the special Core courses, and that most of them try to acquire a broad liberal education notwithstanding that no one makes them do it. A small portion of the Chicago kids have an emotional stake in being anti-Ivy, for no particularly good reason. It's hard for me to tell the difference between whatever Ivy snobbery there is at Brown and the "We Are Uncommon" snobbery that pops up at Chicago. They are both great schools. In both of my kids' cohorts, the friends who in many ways were most like them wound up at Brown.</p>
<p>That makes sense. Both schools put enormous pride into who they are and what they stand for. For Chicago, the big buzzwords are intellectual discourse, liberal arts education, life of the mind, great books. For Brown, I imagine the big buzzwords are intellectual discourse, liberal arts education, personal freedoms.</p>
<p>These two schools pride themselves on what they give their students and the students pride themselves on what the school has given them.</p>
<p>Chicago as a school has changed quite considerably over the past ten years and even moreso over the past thirty years. Two longtime faculty have explained to me the difference that they have seen. One said that while the caliber of student has remained the same over the past 30 years, students have developed extracurricular activities as well. (Having only known the campus a year or two, I'd say there's a palpable student life... maybe it's not the primary focus, but it's undeniably there). The other, who is now a grad student and completed his undergrad here, said that the school used to feel as if it were broken into two factions: those that presumably chose Chicago over every other school in the country and those that were bitter about not getting in elsewhere. The school is still divided, those of us who apply here EA and don't apply elsewhere will continue to do so, those of us who use Chicago as a semi-backup will continue to do so, but it's not so easy to see who fits in where and such bitterness no longer exists.</p>
<p>melonparkmom, you seem to be the one having an issue with the ivies. (Perhaps you resent the fact that your son ended up going elsewhere...who knows..?) You made a comment that was off, that's all.</p>
<p>According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: Here is the definition of PRESTIGE</p>
<p>1 : standing or estimation in the eyes of people : weight or credit in general opinion
2 : commanding position in people's minds</p>
<p>The Ivy League, does have a very high standing and is highly estimated in the eyes of people. It also has a high commanding position in people's minds. It is therefore, prestigious.</p>
<p>You seem to be "disturbed" by the snobbery inherent to the ivy league. That's a different story and that's your problem. I doubt you'll ever get over it.</p>
<p>JHS and unalove make some very good points and I agree with both for the most part. Personally, I have not found too much ivy snobbery at Brown. If anything, the students pride themselves in the fact that "they do not care much about being an ivy or not". As far as Chicago, what I found was more of a certain constant defensiveness about "we are uncommon".</p>
<p>I suspect that the duality unalove describes exists at every college in the country, except perhaps the "Single Initial" schools and Deep Springs. Certainly it exists at Brown, although perhaps less there than at Cornell or Tufts. </p>
<p>Maybe there are not even any exceptions. One of my freshman roommates at a Single Initial College was extremely bitter over his rejection by another Single Initial College, and never really got over it. And for all I know there are some boys out in the high desert taking it out on the livestock because they got dinged by HYPS.</p>
<p>"1 : standing or estimation in the eyes of people : weight or credit in general opinion
2 : commanding position in people's minds"
The above definitions also apply to Stanford, U of Chicago, MIT, CAL Tech, Berkeley, and other fine academic institutions, but out here in Calif, you don't find as many people who care about the prestige of which "athletic conference" a college belongs to, which is all the "Ivy League" is. All of the colleges in the Ivy league stand on their own merit as fine universities, and some are indeed world class, as as are some of the schools I mentioned above. Because a school is an Ivy doesn't make a better academic institution than a non-Ivys. That's my point. Disagree with all you want. And by the way, I have no problem with my son not going to Brown. He visited during accepted student week, spent 15 minutes on campus and said it wasn't for him. In my opinion he is going to an equally "prestigious" college, but "prestige" is not the reason he is attending Chicago. And after being on these forums for over 3 years, I have seen plenty of examples of students and adults who get hung up on the prestige of trying to get into one of the "Ivy's", without regard for how different the schools are from each other.
And your snobbery, which you displayed with the phrase-"to anyone that matters" is a perfect example of the arrogance of some, but not all, in the "Ivy league". Too bad that you feel the need to flame those who disagree with your sweeping "to anyone who matters" arrogance. This is a Chicago forum. I suggest you save your rants for the Brown / Ivy forums where you will find a more receptive audience.</p>
<p>The however many students who don't get into Harvard this year have to go somewhere :-)</p>
<p>Moviebuff, I wouldn't call our "uncommon" thing defensive-- I would call it a point of pride for Chicagoans. I do not think Brunonians are defensive about their open curriculum (perhaps they are defensive when others attempt to put it down, but that's somewhat expected out of anybody with pride in their school). Because people tend to attack Chicago-- a lot-- ("Hey, your school is no fun! You have an abnormal acceptance rate! Nobody in their right mind would go to your school! All of you are socially defective human beings!"), the Chicago pride can push through. I've never seen anybody be defensive about Chicago without an obvious attacker. For some of us, the common application is attacking what we love most about the school-- namely, our quirkiness and spiritedness.</p>
<p>Perhaps one would like to interpret Chicago's "uncommon" campaign as a "we didn't get into any other schools, so we have to be proud about something," but I don't see that at all.</p>
<p>I also don't really know much about Ivy-particular snobbery. Snobs are snobs. You'll find them everywhere. If they aren't snobby about the perceived prestige of their school, they're snobby about how much beer they drink and chicks they bang. Perhaps being at an Ivy can add more fuel to the fire, but I imagine that many Ivy kids are not the prep-school, designer-bag toting type. Many of them are first-generation college students, on generous financial aid, and are probably one of a few kids to ever get into an Ivy from their high school.</p>
<p>Anyway, I challenge you Brunonians to ask around about Bob Zimmer. You'll get an earful.</p>
<p>unalove and JHS, you bring up very good points. And MovieBuff, I agree with you that many Brunonians don't care about the whole Ivy thing. menloparkmom, while the Ivy League did start as an athletic conference, it has become so much more over the years. And the fact that a school is Ivy does make it more prestigious in the eyes of laymen. In the academia, anyone would know that a Chicago education is equivalent to that of an Ivy, with a grading system that is actually much harder than that of, say, Harvard.</p>
<p>From reading all of your posts, it seems that I would be really happy at either one. I would prefer Brown's social scene, but the city Chicago itself offers much that Providence cannot. I'm a bit turned off by the Uncommon App, so I don't know if that's an indication that I might not be such a good match for Chicago, but the fact that Chicago publishes things like Life of the Mind over ordinary viewbooks really sets it apart, and I like that. So I guess the moral of the story would be to apply to both schools, and if I get into both, decide in the visits. Thanks so much to everyone!</p>
<p>My opinion is based on visiting both campuses and attending local info sessions. The thing that struck me about Chicago is how deeply that had thought about the question "what makes us different from X". Off the innumerable info sessions I attended with my D, they are THE school that stands out as having figured out what they stand for, what they are looking for, and communicating it clearly. Their campus info session was very informative, barely touched upon waste-of-time topics such as "how do you apply" and "how do you get financial aid" (these are on the web for all those who are interested enough to read), the student panel was excellent. </p>
<p>Brown was a lot more ho-hum, standard session with standard info, that rarely missed the chance to pound the "free curriculum" issue. There was not anything that particularly stood out to separate Brown in my mind from the rest of the schools my D has looked at. </p>
<p>If the choice was mine, I would prefer Chicago over Brown. My D - she is still working on figuring out whether to apply to one, both, or neither.</p>
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that rarely missed the chance to pound the "free curriculum" issue.
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If I had a penny for every time Chicago bragged about its Nobel Prize winners, I could've afforded to go there. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Haha warblersrule, that is so true, every single letter I've received from Chicago talked about their 78 Nobel Prize winners.</p>
<p>Well... we do have them.... :-P</p>
<p>If there are things I brag about regarding the U of C, the Nobel Prize winners is not one of them. I for one don't particularly care that so-and-so and whozywhat studied here; it means diddly to me as a student and probably means diddly to you as a prospie.</p>