<p>Hi</p>
<p>I've been accepted into both of these great schools and am really confused about where I should go. I would like to study economics, but don't want to base my decision solely based on my major, as that could potentially change. I LOVE Chicago but now that I got into Penn am swayed a little. Ugh.Any opinions?</p>
<p>What other information can you give about yourself and what you want to get out of college?</p>
<p>I want to spew my Chicago propaganda in a specific direction!</p>
<p>(I'm also partial to Penn).</p>
<p>I'm strong academically and while I want a hardcore college experience in terms of academics, I also want to enjoy myself. I really like UChicago's intellectual discussions aspect. Apart from economics, I like writing and have heard that both offer plentiful opportunities for writing. As an international, I need a diverse college where I can meet lots of different people. I'm not a loner or anything but I'm not a social butterfly either.</p>
<p>All in all, I want to have a great college experience that will develop me both intellectually and as a person.</p>
<p>Spew away! Don't worry I also posted on the Penn board so as to receive a net "objective" set of information. That probably doesn't make sense but I'm too confused to care at this point lol. Thanks for your help unalove!</p>
<p>Some quick, sleepless impressions:</p>
<p>There are certainly intellectual undergraduates at Penn, but that's not the character of the place, and the ones I have known have felt somewhat embattled, part of a secret subculture. To some extent, if you are that kind of person, it makes it easier to get faculty attention, etc., at Penn compared to Chicago, where everyone is more or less like that, but you won't feel like you are surrounded by your tribe. On the other hand, if you are NOT that kind of person, at Penn you won't feel like you are surrounded by pretentious eggheads. Remember, a third of Penn undergraduates are in Wharton, and there are also engineers, nursing students, etc. That gives Penn a much, much more practical, careerist spirit than Chicago. That isn't to say that everyone isn't smart -- everyone is smart, but everyone doesn't want to get a PhD. If one of Chicago's mottoes is "That's fine in practice, but how does it work in theory?", Penn's equivalent could be "Screw theory."</p>
<p>Chicago has its Core Curriculum, which gives all undergraduates a fairly extensive set of common reference points, whatever their interests, and also occupies up to a third of their college time. Penn has nothing like that.</p>
<p>Penn is actually much more urban than Chicago. Hyde Park is a sleepy little enclave 6-7 miles from the downtown Loop area, and even farther from the hip neighborhoods where young people hang out. Penn is basically adjacent to Center City Philadelphia -- walking distance or a 5 minute subway ride away from the action. Big streets run through it, many of the dorms are high-rises, most of the buildings modern, fancy restaurants and upscale retail stores dot the campus. There are a few placid nooks and crannies, but you are never far from traffic and bustle. Not true at Chicago.</p>
<p>Chicago (the city) is much larger, richer, more vibrant than Philadelphia. There's more to do there, and it costs a lot more to do it. No one really needs to cater to students. Philadelphia is probably more student-oriented.</p>
<p>Penn is much larger than Chicago -- twice as many undergraduates, more graduate and professional students. Plus, it is adjacent to two other universities to the north and southwest: Drexel (engineering/business) and University of the Sciences (mainly pharmacology). The student population of the Penn neighborhood is easily three or four times that of Hyde Park. </p>
<p>Penn offers a much more traditional college culture. Frats and sororities are important to social life. People care about sports, especially football and really especially basketball -- games regularly sell out. In general, more partying happens (although Chicago is hardly a party-free zone, and Penn students do plenty of work).</p>
<p>Penn is much more connected to the mainstream of life in Philadelphia than Chicago is in Chicago. It is the largest employer and landowner in the city. The current Mayor and the Governor of Pennsylvania are alumni. The Governor makes it to a lot of basketball games. The University of Chicago is a little aloof from the city of Chicago.</p>
<p>Penn has scads of students from the New York metropolitan area, and in some senses it's very New York-oriented. (Manhattan is only an hour away by train.) That means, if you're not used to it, lots of people can seem aggressive, loud and rich. Ostentatious displays of wealth are not frowned upon. That also means that, in addition to the alumni network in Philadelphia, there is an extensive alumni network in and around New York City. Chicago is more Midwestern, softer-spoken, lower key, less competitive. </p>
<p>Really, the two colleges are more similar than they seem. They just seem very different -- different feels. Lots of people apply to both, lots of people choose between them, but most people know instinctively which one makes them feel more energized and more comfortable.</p>
<p>wow thanks for the long and thoughtful reply JHS!</p>
<p>JHS speaks from knowledge. I would just take issue with his last paragraph. In truth, the common thread with these two schools is that both have very bright students. Beyond that, they are two different worlds. </p>
<p>You might want to focus on the cultural and fit aspects, since both have excellent academics. Does the concept of a core attract you? Do you look for ra-ra spirit at a school, driven by frats and big time athletics, or a more individual atmosphere, where house parties, the library, campus coffee shops and doc films are the social outlets? Things like this do matter.</p>
<p>I would also add that, using measures of top undergrad achievement, Chicago does much better than Penn. For example, Chicago students and college alums regularly win Rhodes Scholarships. In many years, like this one, Chicago wins two or three. Penn students/alums are infrequent winners at best.</p>
<p>Newmassdad, in addition to the Wharton frat boys, Penn takes a ton of kids from this area, including lots of my kids' friends. Many of them would be perfectly happy at Chicago, but are thrilled to be at Penn. For working class, immigrant kids from Northeast Philly, it's like dying and going to heaven, even if they sometimes feel intimidated or snubbed by the Long Island set. These are smart, serious, dedicated students with lively intellects and life experiences that humble me. Or one of my son's private school friends, a classics major (now also taking Middle Egyptian) who earns a living as a period-instrument virtuoso. Or my cousin from Alabama by way of Denver and Australia, who chose Penn over Chicago, and went from there to an MA in Anthropology at Magdalen College (Oxon.).</p>
<p>I should also add that Penn apparently has a creative writing program that puts Chicago's to shame. Last summer, my daughter told me that if she had known more about it she would have applied to Penn, which was a total shocker to me. A friend of hers from way back has had a dream experience there -- prizes, fellowships, publications.</p>
<p>(I would choose Chicago over Penn any day, by the way. But I'm not 18 anymore, darn it.)</p>
<p>^^ Yeah, I was going to bring up Penn's creative writing program. It's quite awesome. That's why I'm partial to Penn :-)</p>
<p>If you want to go into business, its Penn's Wharton, hands down</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Wharton is 20% of the undergrad population, not a third; Arts & Sciences is 60% of the student body, Engineering is 15% and Nursing is the rest</p></li>
<li><p>Penn has a strong preprofessional bent due to the presence of these other schools but the College is the core of the undergrad experience (students spend the majority of their first two years "in the College")</p></li>
<li><p>All students can take classes at all of the other schools (e.g., Engineers can study finance, Nursing students can take courses in religious studies, and Marketing majors can learn about anthropology); the grad schools are available too, subject to prerequisites of course</p></li>
<li><p>Recent administrations especially the current president are pushing hard in the humanities and social sciences -->Penn's creative writing programs (formally in the English department and via the Kelly Writers House) are models for other schools</p></li>
<li><p>Penn is the academic partner with the National Constitution Center, which provides great opportunities in PoliSci, law, government and related studies</p></li>
<li><p>Penn's music, languages and area studies departments are top 5-7</p></li>
<li><p>Chicago and Penn are roughly tied at the top of the heap in anthro, demography, etc.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Finally, the comments re the cities were great. Chicago is what NY wishes it could be if it were clean, civil and didn't have the horribly crumbling infrastructure (full disclosure, I grew up in Philly and live in NY). Philly has many virtues though. Both have awesome arts and cultural scences, great sports traditions, spectacular parks and outdoors areas. For Philly, don't forget about the Jersey shore, the Dupont mansions in Delaware and the gracefulness of Bucks County</p>