Uchicago vs Stanford

[waterballons]

<p>Uchicago vs Stanford. </p>

<p>I'm trying to decide where I want to apply REA/EA. I know I have LOTS of time to think about this, but I want to do it while I'm still in junior year – while my mind is some what clear; when I'm not rushing to get a whole bunch of applications done and trying to keep up my senior year marks.
First off, I'm canadian. Yes, I know getting in to a school of such caliber is super tough - even tougher for internationals like myself. I'm still going to try. </p>

<p>The thing that draws me to stanford is the ME Product Design Program. I'm constantly designing furniture and service ideas, as well as the whole human factors aspect of it.
Another thing I really like about Stanford design program is the fact that it has a technical side to it - opposed to just an art side. I'm having problems finding a design program like that here in Canada and honestly, I'll be kind of hesitant to attend one if it's not a Stanford; NOT because of the school name, but because of the unique course requirements and courses. </p>

<p>If I end up getting in and going to Uchicago, I will probably major in Philosophy or Anthropology; I spend as much time 'with' philosophy as much as I do with design. I should make it clear that I love the core. The idea of having a (for lack of better word) holistic education really appeals to me as I have interest in a wide array of fields. I realize, that if I get in (and go) to Stanford, I won't have the opportunity of such intellectual breadth in that extent. With Uchicago comes the intellectual, “life of the mind” atmosphere; I learn for the sake of learning, and for once in my life, would love to be surrounded with people that have the same mentality – not that I wouldn't be able to find people like that in another school – it's just more... distinct. </p>

<p>In terms of other environmental/seasonal factors, although they are both quite different, they both appeal to me. I'm really not picky. Snow, no snow – it really doesn't matter (to me). </p>

<p>A big factor is financial aid, I qualify for quite a lot. While uchicago is need blind for canadians, stanford is need aware. Uchicago has also been deemed one of the top 10 schools for international financial aid.
Should I (would you) factor this into your decision? </p>

<p>I know applying ED shouldn't really be this big of a deal and really doesn't up your chances that much - I really want to make the right choice.
So if anyone could give me guidance, things to consider, questions to ask myself that could help me decide what school to apply early too, that would be great. Even if it's just your take on the situation, and your experiences – I'm all ears. </p>

<p>Excuse awful spelling and grammar – it's been a long day. XD</p>

[tortoise]

<p>I’ve attended both-- UChicago as an undergrad, Stanford for grad school. Both are amazing, both offer very different experiences.</p>

<p>Really, your choice depends on what you want to do.</p>

[waterballons]

<p>Thanks for posting, tortoise!
Guess I just might have to explore my interests a little deeper.</p>

[Sarah1994]

<p>Without knowing you, I’d vote for UChicago. Chicago is known for its intellectual atmosphere, and is, in my opinion (though I did not end up applying to Chicago) an amazing place. Stanford seems much more career oriented, while people at Chicago are there because they love learning.</p>

[tortoise]

<p>I will say this–financial aid definitely should factor into your decision. Both UChicago and Stanford have such immense strengths, generalized comparisons are pointless. Assuming that one institution isn’t self-evidently superior to the other in your chosen field of study, I think you’ll want to go to the school that offers the best aid package.</p>

[waterballons]

<p>Thanks to all who posted - you both make greats points in regard to atmosphere and aid. I think it really comes down to how much I see design in my future, and unfortunately I am an incredibly indecisive person and am not very good at foreseeing the future.</p>

[fliqer]

<p>They are both INCREDIBLE places. I would go with the best financial package (don’t forget to factor in travel costs for breaks). All things being equal then environment - Chicago vs Bay Area and decide based on that. I would opt for Stanford by a whisker.</p>

[Gratisfaction]

<p>Since both school’s early programs are early action and non-binding, I would personally apply to the school that is statistically more difficult to get in during the RD round. I <em>believe</em> in this case that would mean applying to Stanford SCEA and Chicago RD, though I may be mistaken in my statistics. You’re in a lucky position, in that your favorite schools both offer non-binding early action policies, so you will have until this time next year to make a decision. I won’t have that same luxury. </p>

<p>And though this contradicts what I just said, perhaps applying early to Chicago will be a smarter idea, as you will have a higher chance of securing one of your top choices early on, and could apply RD to a bunch of top schools. The choice is yours.</p>

[waterballons]

<p>Thank you both for posting!
Gratisfaction: Wow, your post (particularly the applying to chicago EA for higher chances part) allowed me to really see what my dilemma is:
apply to uchicago for a still slim but better chance at a school I’d absolutely love and have no hesitance attending</p>

<p>VS.</p>

<p>apply to stanford for a major that my gut tells me i like better (not to mention a major I wouldn’t have the opportunity to take at home) but deal with even slimmer chances.</p>

[phantasmagoric]

<p>

The idea of having a (for lack of better word) holistic education really appeals to me as I have interest in a wide array of fields. I realize, that if I get in (and go) to Stanford, I won’t have the opportunity of such intellectual breadth in that extent.

</p>

<p>You definitely would at Stanford. There’s the Structured Liberal Education (SLE) program, which is an intensive residential/academic program freshman year. Stanford doesn’t have a *required *core like Chicago’s, but you can assemble a very similar curriculum - you’re just given more flexibility in doing so (both are on the quarter system, so you have more course space at Stanford as well). If you’re passionate about design/ME aspect of it, I’m not sure why you’d want to go to a school that doesn’t have it. </p>

<p>Stanford may be need-aware for internationals, but for those who get in, the same financial aid policies apply to them too (in fact, something like 2/3 of the international students are on some kind of aid, with an average grant of $31k). </p>

<p>I’ll give you the same advice I give to each person contemplating different early programs: forget about the admissions aspect of it and don’t try to game the system (not saying you are - just that many students try to strategically apply to this or that early program, etc. when it isn’t even their first choice; this type of student is what makes elite college admissions so uncertain). Apply to the one that’s truly your first choice. Stanford is harder to get into for both SCEA and RD, but that shouldn’t influence your choice. </p>

<p>

Stanford seems much more career oriented, while people at Chicago are there because they love learning.

</p>

<p>Not true at all. Here’s what someone else and I posted about this recently:</p>

<p>

@zenkoan

The great thing about S is that you’ll find a lot less pseudo-intellectual posturing, and attempts at one-upmanship, among students than at some peer schools–students at Stanford tend to be more secure than that, which is another way to look at the cultural differences on the campuses, particularly as experienced by many freshmen as they start out. The SLE program is a great choice for students who want to jump right in to an intensive humanities experience upon arrival–loads of opportunities for those all-night philosophical discussion marathons.

</p>

<p>

@phantasmagoric

One thing that turned me off to similar universities (Yale, Princeton, UChicago) was that much of, not all, the supposed ‘intellectualism’ there just seemed forced to me - posturing. You don’t need to discuss Kant or postmodern art to be ‘intellectual.’ For me, what real intellectualism really boils down to is what students are excited about, which is hugely varied at Stanford. Whether it’s the Solar Car team or alternative energy initiatives or issues with K-12 education, once students find what they love, their engagement in it is what makes the atmosphere vibrant and intellectual. Of course, everyone has a different take on what intellectualism means to them.

</p>

[waterballons]

<p>Wow, phantasmagoric, thanks so much!
I never knew about the SLE program! So glad you mentioned it to me, it definitely seems like my type of thing and I think will be an important factor in my decision. </p>

<p>Thanks so much for such a wonderful post, I really appreciate it!</p>

[tortoise]

<p>Speaking, again, from first-hand experience with both institutions, let me assure you: Stanford’s education is neither more (or less) “holistic” than Chicago’s, while pseudo-intellectuals are neither more (or less) prevalent at Chicago than at Stanford.</p>

<p>Both institutions are marvelous, both have their strengths. Their greatest difference probably lies with their “look & feel”–California Prosperity v. Gothic Citadel of Learning–which, when you think about it, isn’t terribly important, certainly not in the long run.</p>

[latichever]

<p>I went to grad school at UC, and I’ve been to Palo Alto. If you don’t have a car, Stanford is only theoretically in the Bay Area. Hyde Park is a brief public transportation trip away from the rest of Chicago. Personnally, I love the Blues, so Chicago is a world Mecca for that.</p>

<p>Academically, of course, either is awesome.</p>

[tk21769]

<p>

Stanford’s education is neither more (or less) “holistic” than Chicago’s, while pseudo-intellectuals are neither more (or less) prevalent at Chicago than at Stanford.

</p>

<p>I can believe all of this.</p>

<p>I suspect that among first year students at nearly any highly selective college (but maybe a little more so at Chicago than some other schools), there is a fair amount of pseudo-intellectual posturing. At some colleges, peer pressure will suppress it. At Chicago, peers will sometimes enable it, at least for the first few terms. Good professors will “call BS”.</p>

<p>Apply to (and visit) both schools. Take the above advice not to try to game the system with your “early” strategy. Keep in mind that Chicago doesn’t have Stanford’s engineering/design programs, but Stanford does have strong liberal arts programs.</p>

[tortoise]

<p>tk2, honestly, I’ve seen about the same amount of “pseudo-intellectual posturing” at both places. Perhaps that’s just a function my chosen peer group, but, for what it’s worth, there it is.</p>

<p>You are absolutely correct about Stanford’s breadth of offerings, however. It is, truly, an “academic superstore” of the highest caliber. UChicago, which is smaller and has fewer resources, definitely picks its shots. It’s more of a “boutique,” if you will. But it picks its shots VERY well.</p>

<p>Does the individual undergrad benefit more from an “academic superstore” than an “academic boutique”? That depends.</p>

<p>Both Stanford and Harvard are, IMHO, the two leading “academic superstores” on the planet. Nothing else really comes close to these giants when it comes to the breadth, depth, excellence of their “inventory.”</p>

<p>Having said that (and, again, I say this only on the basis of my own personal experience) Harvard and Stanford can seem as sprawling, impersonal as…well, a superstore (albeit an awesomely high-end superstore).</p>

<p>In my experience, Stanford suffers most in this regard. As someone here said, Stanford is not really located in the “Bay Area”; even with a car, a trip to San Francisco can be a traffic-choked ordeal. Your home, then, is the anodyne exurb of Palo Alto–beautiful and dull–unless you never leave campus (which has its own zip code, btw). The campus itself golf-course lovely…and, to my taste, a bit of a bore.</p>

<p>Harvard also suffers a Balkinization amongst its various schools. But Cambridge, MA. is such a nutty hothouse, this itself can foster such a sense of camaraderie amongst those of us who’ve just dropped in for school, I never felt the sense of alienation there that I experienced, every now and then, in Palo Alto. But, again, that’s just me.</p>

<p>UChicago, on the other hand, is a different animal. The one word that comes to mind is “cozy.” Hyde Park, the Quads…there’s no place quite like it.</p>

<p>Whether or not that’s a place you want to be, well, only you can know.</p>

[phantasmagoric]

<p>^ nice analogy with the superstore vs. boutique. I’d add Berkeley to the mix, since IMO it’s the only other university with the breadth and depth to match Stanford and Harvard (of course, the problems with the undergraduate division are an issue, but it still has comparable breadth/depth).</p>

<p>

If you don’t have a car, Stanford is only theoretically in the Bay Area.

</p>

<p>I disagree with this. Yes, Stanford’s campus is distinct from its surroundings, but you certainly don’t need a car (I think that’s one of the most propagated myths about the area). I didn’t have a car. Many students, like me, who cared enough to get off campus used public transportation: the Marguerite, the VTA, Caltrain, BART, even Zipcar. Students are usually preoccupied with their lives on campus and don’t appreciate all that the Bay Area has to offer, so they don’t go off campus. But it’s not correct to say that it’s difficult to explore the Bay Area without a car. It isn’t - most students just don’t care enough to do it, which is a shame.</p>

<p>That’s one of my gripes about Stanford: that students are too lazy to go beyond Stanford’s borders and aren’t aware of how easy it is or what the area has to offer. IHOP in Menlo Park? “Great!” Ethiopian restaurant on the peninsula? “It’s too far, waahhh.”</p>

<p>It’s true, of course, that U Chicago is more integrated with the city. But the Bay Area has so much to offer, even if you do have to use public transportation.</p>

[waterballons]

<p>Wow! Thanks to all who posted - you guys are super helpful! </p>

<p>

In my experience, Stanford suffers most in this regard. As someone here said, Stanford is not really located in the “Bay Area”; even with a car, a trip to San Francisco can be a traffic-choked ordeal. Your home, then, is the anodyne exurb of Palo Alto–beautiful and dull–unless you never leave campus (which has its own zip code, btw). The campus itself golf-course lovely…and, to my taste, a bit of a bore.

</p>

<p>So at the beginning of the post I stated the enviormental factors - look, archietecture; feel, weather and all that good stuff -weren’t playing a big factor in my decision. After all these posts, I am starting to second guess my calm nature towards it - should I be looking more into these things; I’ve been reading a lot of posts and it seems that a lot of people do? Is the “stanford bubble” really that ‘severe’? Will it really be that much of a hassle to attend museums, theatres etc. ?</p>

[waterballons]

<p>Just saw your post, phantasmagoric! You just answered my 'stanford bubble
question, so thanks a bunch! Had a brief moment of panic.</p>

[tortoise]

<p>I dunno, Phantasmorgic, I did three years on the Stanford campus and found it to me a massive ordeal to get into the city. Perhaps I’m spoiled (Harvard, on the Mass. Ave. axis with MIT, and an easy subway ride or even walk to, well, everything, and UChicago, a ten minute-train ride to the Loop), but I found going to the “Bay Area,” per se, to be a major time suckan–an hour each way, on a good day. </p>

<p>Berkeley, on the other hand, has a really sweet location: It truly is located in what I would call the “Bay Area.” And, yes, it certainly is a “superstore”–as is UCLA, Texas at Austin, etc. But it’s a superstore of a different type, I’d say,</p>

[waterballons]

<p>Man, an hour each way seems like a hastle, ( of course, I’m a total city kid; I could literally walk out of my house, walk a couple more blocks and arrive at the CN tower in 7 minutes).
I suppose I could deal with it though; I’ll probably want to spend a lot of time on campus anyway…</p>