UChicago vs UC Berkeley (Out-of-state) Undergrad

College Search & Selection
1

I’m having a hard time choosing. I have a good merit scholarship for UChicago, which ultimately makes it several thousand dollars less expensive per year than Berkeley. On the other hand, there is a very good chance I can graduate Berkeley in only two years due to other college courses I’ve taken and AP credit (I would currently likely enter with junior standing). If I managed to finish Berkeley in 2 years, it would save me a lot of money, which is somewhat important due to financial pressures that didn’t exist before.

I don’t know exactly what I want to major in, although if I went to Berkeley I would have to decide quickly. I lean towards science, so I’m considering a variety of majors, generally mathematically focused/economics although I’m not sure. I don’t know what I want to do professionally.

I don’t care that much about weather, although I do like the idea of city life. It is important that I make it into a good graduate school. Suggestions?

2

Go to uchicago and have the 4 years of college experience. If u were instate for Berkeley, that would obviously be the better option.

3

A “good graduate school” would prefer you do a 4 year program because you need it, along with research opportunities and possibly publications, to be a competitive candidate. You’re not going to get either in 2 years at Cal. So I vote for Chicago. Congratulations on two great choices.

4

How does this change if I were to stay at Cal for three years instead, or I tried Chicago in three?

5

Cal is a giant public. Chicago is a smaller private. Odds are, you will have greater research opportunities and better chances to develop working relationship with influential faculty in the latter, especially if you want/need to graduate in 3 instead of 4 years. No matter how you spin it, if grad school is what you want in the future, you need to be focusing on where you can stand out quicker/easier. I think it’s in Chicago.

6

To graduate in 4 semesters (or even 5-6 semesters in many cases) would take careful academic planning and a firm decision on your major so that you can do such careful academic planning. You might also not be able to fit in all of the not-required-but-desirable electives that you may want to take to prepare for graduate study (e.g. additional advanced math and statistics courses if you want to go on to PhD study in economics). Also, the usefulness of big piles of AP credit may be lower than you think, depending on which AP tests and scores you have, since many may only be applicable to free elective credit, rather than specific major and general education subject requirements.

Is Chicago affordable for 4 years (12 quarters), or would you have to try to graduate sooner than that for affordability? If not affordable, are there any lower cost options that you have? Chicago does offer some credit for AP scores if you need to graduate in fewer than 12 quarters: http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/examinationcreditandtransfercredit/#advancedplacementcredit

Both schools are good for mathematical economics, so don’t worry about that.

7

Consider not only what it would take (minimally) to graduate in 2 years, but also what it would take to be a competitive applicant to the graduate programs you want.

8

This one really isn’t close. I don’t think I can post the link but there is a website that shows which school kids pick when faced with a choice. This one is a slam dunk for most people unless you want to be an engineer.

9

@ucbalumnus Yep, as I said, if I chose Berkeley I would have to decide on a major and have a clearly laid out path. Seeing as it looks like there are some disadvantages in terms of graduate school if I go for two years, I would probably consider the possibility of three years for either of them. Ultimately, regardless of what I pick or how long I study for, I will hopefully eventually be able to pay everything off, although a difference of over a hundred thousand is is no way negligible.

As far as AP credit, I looked for at what I could satisfy at L&S and some majors I’d consider and I don’t have that many requirements after all things are said and done and courses are substituted.

10

What are the net prices you got from each school, and what can your parents contribute?

What AP scores did you earn or expect to earn?

11

There is a fair amount of uncertainty in how much I could expect of them. I would be paying full tuition for Berkeley (About 60k), and I currently would pay about 55k for UChicago, although due to the new circumstances I may be able to lower that with financial aid (I don’t think that applies for Cal).

I just realized, but there is another element. My junior and senior years would be much cheaper at Chicago (EFC drops a third with simultaneous siblings and UChicago meets demonstrated need) but Berkeley gives little aid out of state. I could expect to pay 30k/year for the last two years at Chicago before even considering change in income, which is honestly very very compelling and something I’d overlooked. Let me know if I’m doing some math wrong.

APs,
5s: Calc BC, Comp Sci, Psych, Physics (B and both Cs), expected: Music Theory, Macro and Micro Econ, French, Chemistry, English Lit
4s (Mostly without courses): Biology, English Lang, US History, Stats
If I can add them to my AP schedule, I think I could get 5’s on Art History, Environmental Science, US Government, as well as at least a 4 on European History.

12

This is an absolute no brainer- for multiple reasons but ESPECIALLY since it will be cheaper! Go to Chicago.

13

UChicago requires 42 credits to graduate, so a 3-year plan should be fairly doable with just 6 AP credits (leaving 36 to complete in 9 quarters, with an average of 4 credits/quarter). Econ and math are two of the strongest departments at UChicago for grad school preparation, so this is a no-brainer at lower cost than Berkeley.

14

Is your financial aid being re-evaluated for some reason that could cause your net price to change?

How much will your parents actually pay?

Did you run Chicago’s net price calculator with the sibling in college to get the $30,000 net price for your third and fourth year?

It is not clear if either school is affordable, since you have not specified that much information. If neither school is affordable, do you have any other lower cost options?

In terms of your AP credit (counting what you list with 5 and 4 scores, but not the “if I can add them to my AP schedule”):

Berkeley: 56 semester units. However, subject credit would be more limited: L&S reading and composition requirement, L&S foreign language requirement, Math 1A and 1B, Economics 1, Psychology 1, French 3, Statistics 2 (*AP credit cannot be used for the L&S 7 course breadth)

Chicago: MATH 15100, 15200, PHYS 12100, 12200, 12300, CHEM 11100, 11200, 11300, BIOS 10130 (general education), STAT 22000, language competency requirement, 5 additional quarters of general elective credit (total 15 quarters of credit).

Just in terms of credits, you would need 5 semesters at Berkeley, unless you overload. At Chicago, you would likely need 8 quarters, unless you overload. But since subject credit is much more limited, you may need more semesters or quarters to complete the subject requirements for your major and general education, as well as any highly desirable electives for preparing for graduate school. So basing your plan on graduating in fewer than 3 years may not work out too well.

15

Easy choice: Chicago. Not only is it arguably a better undergraduate experience (really an amazing education), but in your case it’s cheaper too. Go to UCB for grad school, not undergrad.

I wouldn’t try to rush through college too quickly - and you may not be able to use all of your AP credits for your intended major (my D had lots of AP credits but has been unable to use them all, and in at least one case preferred not to use it).

16

Have the UCs changed their AP policies? Three nephews graduated from UCs in recent years and they told me that their AP credits would not have helped them graduate earlier. I dont remember exactly what they said but it was something like AP credits will count as electives but not req’ts. maybe they were wrong, maybe I misheard, or maybe things have changed???

17

Chicago. This is a no brainer. :slight_smile:

18

@ucbalumnus
Yes. The circumstances likely affect it, although I’m not sure exactly how much.

It’s really hard to say. There is a fair amount of uncertainty.

I plugged in my current numbers from my FAFSA, which will likely go down in the following years, and after my merit scholarship it comes out to an expected cost of $29,942 with my sibling.

I will be able to pay for either eventually.

In terms of AP list, it is definitely not unlikely to add the ones I listed as conditional. I also have three college courses that appear to have equivalents at Berkeley from a state college nearby that don’t overlap with any of my AP courses.

With this considered, the APs can be worth 71 credits, and the college courses are all worth 4 semester units (Based on http://guide.berkeley.edu/courses/). That puts me at 83/120 credits at Berkeley, which means I would have 3 semesters left. Without the additional AP tests, I would still be at 68/120, leaving four semesters.

@everyone saying it’s a no-brainer. Personal factors make this a more difficult choice, although I would like this to be objective.

19

Actually, you HAVE TO take at least 6 quarters/4 semesters at a university to get a degree, and your AP credits would only count for freshman/sophomore/gen ed classes. You’d still have to take your major requirements and many pre-reqs.
You may have 71 credits, but they wouldn’t “count” for all the requirements. Each AP has to be 1° accepted as equivalent (some aren’t) and 2° matched to a required freshman class. Ap’s aren’t higher than freshman level so you can accumulate tons of freshman-level classes but you still won’t get credit for upper-level classes.

20

@MYOS1634 Others have graduated Berkeley within two years without even focusing on AP credit. It is definitely possible. Two of the college courses I took are listed as upper level Applied Math requirements. One of them is a lower level requirement.