“others” is vague, and those are likely to be outliers. Counting on being an outlier is foolish.
To be clear: UChicago is considered Ivy-level. It’s a private university that will provide you with amenities that you’ll need for grad school, such as an adviser, contact with professors, access to research, better resources, no trouble registering for classes. It hasn’t been hit with sudden, terrible funding cuts. It costs less money.
Even if you can graduate in 2 years at UCb (which, between actual requirements and class registration priority, is NOT a given at all) it won’t be helpful since grad schools will expect a minimum of 3.
Hence: no brainer.
It’s rare to see such unanimity on a “College X vs. university Z” thread on CC. The fact you have unanimity should tell you something.
“There is a fair amount of uncertainty in how much I could expect of them. I would be paying full tuition for Berkeley (About 60k), and I currently would pay about 55k for UChicago, although due to the new circumstances I may be able to lower that with financial aid (I don’t think that applies for Cal).”
Room, board, tuition at Berkeley is between 22-54K depending on which housing and meal plan you select. It’s not 60K (they estimate 5K for personal expenses, 1 K for books). So I would make sure you are comparing costs properly. Also the U of Chicago health plan is pretty expensive - check to see if you will be covered on your parents’ plan or if you must enroll.
Like others, I think you’d have a better academic experience at Chicago, if the price is equal. But I wonder if this is affordable for your family. How much of this roughly 55K bill will be in the form of loans? Will your parents have to assume debt as well? Do you have other options that are more affordable?
Go to Chicago; it is really a no-brainer. As an OOS student, California wants your money. I don’t see you graduating from Berkeley in less than four:
My dd’s UC didn’t use her AP credits for university requirements, and she was required to take courses in the areas of the subjects (i.e. College chemistry, calculus, etc.)
The university material that was mandated was significantly complex and she needed that preface of AP courses/scores in order to do well in her university coursework. In other words, her 12 AP courses (5’s) were “prerequisites” for Intro courses.
The only thing that the AP credits helped with was her registration priority.
The UC’s have their own system of interpreting the AP coursework. The norm is using AP and community college credits to advance in the registration of classes. (DD’s friends go to Berkeley and they also went through the same thing).
UCs are very generous with credit units for AP scores, but can be much stingier with subject credit. I.e. many AP scores will only give free elective credit, which does not help if the student chooses a major or academic program with a large number of subject requirements (including general education requirements).
@mamaedefamilia
I wouldn’t need UChicago’s healthcare plan, I would not expect my parents to take on any debt, and I would likely pay less than 30k for the last two years if I went for four, or if I took a gap year, I could go for 30k (Or less if our income goes down) for all but one year. I would hold myself fully responsible for any loans beyond what they could pay.
You used this: https://npc.collegeboard.org/student/app/uchicago ?
Do you mean with loans? If the loans are more than $5,500 (first year) to $7,500 (last two years), then you need parent cosigner and parent loans. Parent cosigner or parent loans are generally a bad idea.
Actually, it is not a no-brainer. From what you have written, it is entirely possible that both are too expensive, so that you may have to drop these two schools and choose a less expensive school. That your plan involves the (probably unrealistic) assumption of being able to graduate in under three years indicates that you probably cannot afford three or four years of either school.
@ucbalumnus Yes, that is what I used. The average student debt of the class of 2015 is 35k. Since 5 years ago the average was 26k and it looks pretty linear since 2004, the average student debt of the class of 2016 will likely exceed 45k. I think either of these colleges will also leave me with substantially better than average graduate school prospects. Regardless of whether my parents cosign, I will hold myself responsible for paying any loans after I’m done. I have no comparable cheaper options.
As an aside from funding, what do you think of the fact that three courses I could transfer meet Applied Math requirements, two of them upper, one lower?
But you do have cheaper options, right? Seems like you are stuck on the two dream schools that are probably too expensive, and do not want to give them up for more affordable options.
No one can even make a guess if you do not name the courses. Even then, you would have to ask the math department at the school you attend for evaluation.
Also, if your parents spend all of their money and more (borrowing parent loans or cosigning your student loans), how will you and they explain to your younger sibling that his/her college choices will be much more severely limited than yours due to cost limitations?
First, I doubt my sibling’s college will cost as much. Even if it does, I will not be using money from my parent’s savings, and as I have no college money specifically set aside outside of what I’ve earned, I will ultimately not affect how much he can spend.
I would choose Chicago without hesitation, but I wouldn’t count on being able to rush through Chicago in three years. It is extremely rigorous even in 4.
Moreover, Chicago will require you to take many courses outside of your usual comfort zone, and they are not “gut” courses either. You may be fantastic at math, but writing papers on Wittgenstein’s philosophy and ancient Greek literature and Durkheim’s social coherence theories and the historical schism between Sunni and Shiite Islam, and fulfilling the foreign language requirement and doing labs on cell biology and so forth - this will challenge even the greatest math student.
If your parents contribute nothing (but have enough money that you will not get much financial aid), then you need to choose a school that is much less expensive than these two schools are for you. Even in the unlikely event that you are able to graduate in two years, the amount of debt will likely be far larger than what you can borrow on your own without parent cosigner.
So your parents will contribute nothing and you will be covering 55K per year on your own? How will you do that?
BerkChicQuest,
You dont and wont qualify for loans of that amount. period.
No bank will lend you that kind if $$.
Think of it this way- Do you think you could go into an Audi showroom today and drive out with new car costing $55,000? The answer to that question, is also no.
So you need to face reality, as many other fellow HS seniors students are now having to do, and choose a college that you can afford.
Magical thinking wont pay the bills at either UCB or Chicago. And there is no money fairy that will make your problem go away.
Its time to make another choice.
If money weren’t an issue, I’d say Chicago, hands down. But it’s not clear how either school (whether we’re talking two years or four) is being paid for.
I am not saying that my parents will contribute nothing. I don’t understand how this emerged. My point was that my family will not reach into savings to pay for this. My family will not have trouble cosigning for loans if necessary for both myself and my sibling, but whatever they can’t pay at the time, I will take it upon myself to pay later. There are circumstances that are inappropriate to explain here, but my college will be financed. I will be able to afford either school, although money is not a factor I can neglect.
The fact that you are referring to parent cosigned loans, have not indicated that your parents will contribute anything other then cosigning loans, and are trying to graduate in fewer than 3 years as part of your means of affording college indicates that you are really taking a huge risk with the finances. Even if you do manage it, with huge debt, your personal and professional choices in the future will be constrained by the need to chase the money at every turn, even if you would otherwise prefer a less lucrative path.
@ucbalumnus Please read the message I sent you with an explanation. My parents will pay for part, what I expect will be a large majority of the costs, although the exact amount I can expect is uncertain for the reasons I discussed in my message. If I do get debt, it will likely be less than the average student loan debt of my graduating class.
It is difficult in my mind to justify spending the large amount that it costs for an unnecessary year when I cannot see what benefit it would provide.
If you want to graduate college early, it is best if you did your homework rather than assuming that you can do so just based on large numbers of credits from AP scores.
For each college and major combination under consideration, build a schedule that will have you graduate as soon as possible while fufilling all major and general education requirements. Note whether the schedule is tight (i.e. no room for error, such as not being able to take a particular class because of time conflict) or loose (there is more flexibility).
If you are undecided between several majors, try to combine the first few semesters or quarters in the schedules for the majors to see if you can work toward all of them without causing graduation time to be extended. If that is not possible, you may need one or more extra semesters beyond what you need if you go in already firmly decided on a major.
Despite the chorus of ideologues arguing the contrary, I think you can graduate UC Berkeley within two years with a combination of AP and Dual Enrollment credits. Instead of guessing, why not have UC Berkeley evaluate your transcripts (high school and college) and AP courses/scores and tell you how many credits will be granted for a specific degree (Econ?). IMHO, I don’t think it is a “no-brainer” or slam dunk that University of Chicago is the obvious choice. One option will cost $110K versus $170K (or $220K worst case - no tuition increase).
Here is a high school student who entered UC Berkeley with both AP and Dual Enrollment credits (she has a AA degree) and she is scheduled to graduate in two years:
https://www.mdc.edu/main/sas/alumni/shyanne_amoyo.aspx
You can peruse the other testimonials a see other high school graduates who have completed their undergraduate degree from Georgetown, Duke, UF, University of Miami, etc., within a 2-3 year timeframe with both AP and Dual Enrollment credits.
Another high school student was able to graduate from MIT with a combination of AP and dual enrollment credits/courses: