I’m looking for any helpful advice to aid me in my college decision…I have been accepted into the University of Washington Honors Program with a full tuition scholarship. I have also been accepted into my dream school, UChicago, but with no merit money (at least I think I did not receive any merit aid because it didn’t say so in my acceptance letter). UChicago is the perfect fit for me in terms of the type of education I am looking for, but it is SO EXPENSIVE! I do not know if paying 60k a year for UChicago is worth it to further my education. I am planning to major in biology and go on to graduate school.
Now, before everyone says that I should go to UW because it is cheaper, please know that I received my scholarship through the honors program, meaning that I have to stay in the honors program to keep my scholarship, and also that I will enter college with approximately 90 credits from ap classes. Therefore, the honors program would probably be a huge waste of time for someone like me, and I am not sure if I will stay in the honors program and receive the scholarship all four years when I could potentially graduate in two without the honors requirements. Well, that was just a tangent :). Again, any helpful advice is appreciated!
Can some of your AP credits be counted toward some Honors Program credits?
Usually the tuition scholarship is divided by quarters (in UW’s case). So if you graduate in three years you will get three year’s free tuition - anyway you do not pay anything tuition-wise.
What are your intended majors? UW is well known in some fields.
$70K+/year for Chicago if you’re full pay.
If you’re sure about bio, I think you could really hit the group running at UW and could have some great research experiences. The Core makes U of C a very different proposition – you won’t specialize as early or as exclusively. That said, research opportunities will also be great and could start first year. Have you looked at course offerings and mapped out your first couple of years at each school? That’ll make the difference pretty obvious. Which is preferable really depends on you (my daughter was very pro U of C after this exercise; at her age I would have strongly preferred the UW schedule).
Alternatively, what would you do if, after more coursework, you decided bio wasn’t your thing? What’s Plan B (or C) and which school would suit you better in that situation?
At UW, I would get a bs in molecular, cellular, and development biology. At UChicago, I would major in biology with a specialization in genetics. I am pretty sure of my decision to major in biology, considering that I have already worked in a wet lab studying gene therapy and loved the experience. That being said, I know that I would spend my first year completing the core at UChicago and probably would skip gen ed at UW with all of my credits and proceed to upper level classes. I want to study the core at UChicago, but the price of doing so is deterring me when I could go to uw tuition free.
Also, in response to an earlier question, none of my AP credits count towards honors requirements. They would count for UW gen ed requirements…so doing the math I would use only ~35 of my AP credits.
The decision would depend, at least partly, on how difficult or easy it would be for your parents to pay the full price at UC. If it would be difficult and involve loans, that’s quite a different animal than if they can pay without too much trouble.
Great advice so far. Your prospective major makes the decision harder.
Washington’s strength in the biological sciences is reflected in the following:
http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc41.html#area13
http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc1.html#RANKBYAREA
http://www.shanghairanking.com/FieldLIFE2015.html
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/biology-biochemistry?page=2
http://nturanking.lis.ntu.edu.tw/Default.aspx
http://nturanking.lis.ntu.edu.tw/DataPage/countries.aspx?query=LifeSciences&country=USA&y=2015
Biology is the top prospective major for students in the Honors Program: http://depts.washington.edu/uwhonors/apply/freshman/faq/
At Washington, you would get to break in the new biology building starting around the end of your sophomore year:
http://www.biology.washington.edu/life-sciences-complex
Of course, Chicago is Chicago, and you should be very proud of your admission there. I present the above information simply to note that your backup option is a very good one for your intended field of study.
Congratulations and good luck!
As others have said, the better decision will depend on your financial circumstances. The COA at Chicago is $72,000 now, and may average out to $74,000/year or $75,000/year when increases over the next three years are taken into account. Is UChicago worth $300,000 more than UW? No. Chicago is an exceptional school, but UW is among the best state flagships, and (as others have indicated) has a strong biology department. So the key question is whether your parents can afford the $300,000 when that’s an optional expense.
If the answer is “Yes, easily,” then this decision comes down to which university and which biology department you prefer.
If the answer is “No” then that makes the decision very simple.
If the answer is “Maybe, but with loans or a spartan lifestyle” then I’d suggest you go to UW and save $300,000. That money could pay for graduate school - twice over in some fields. You don’t want to graduate with $20,000 in UG debt, $150,000 from your Masters, and an entry-level salary.
I think my D decided not to apply to UW to spare herself this debate! Personally, even if your parents can “easily” afford U of C, I think it’s a real question which is the best choice and the answer depends a lot on your personality, interests, aspirations, and attitude toward education. For what it’s worth, the UW alumns I know (non-biologists – and in different fields from each other) are smart, competent, well-educated, considerate, and friendly. (And they love movies – especially obscure movies, LOL!)
My D is not as sure about bio as you seem to be (strong interest in languages and lit, curious about linguistics and, to some extent, psych), so she probably could have won the argument (for Chicago, largely on Plan B grounds), but she’d have had to convince me.
U Washington is a great school, and, if finances are an issue, there is NO reason to take Chicago for $300k more. Enjoy UW and know that you’ll be competitive for grad admissions at Chicago (without a $300k hole in your pocket).
The cost difference between these two is smaller than 300K in total.
“I have been accepted into the University of Washington Honors Program with a full tuition scholarship. I have also been accepted into my dream school, UChicago, but with no merit money”
So OP only gets tuition free and she/he should compare the Chicago’s tuition (52K/year) and UW’s (0).
Four years’ attendance: 220K (considering inflation).
If OP wants to graduate in less than four years, she/he may finish in three years since she/he has many AP credits (to place out many Chicago’s science Core and foreign language Core, and use as electives).
Three years’ attendance: 160K (considering inflation).
I cannot see OP graduates in two years since Bio major requires 16 credits and CORE stills requires at least 9 credits. I think you can use AP credits for up to six electives.
http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/biologicalsciences/
http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/examinationcreditandtransfercredit/
Still a lot of money to be involved.
Sure - I amend my post then - Chicago isn’t worth $200k of debt in comparison to UW.
Also, I wouldn’t recommend graduating Chicago in 3 years. Chicago is intense enough without condensing the time it takes to graduate.
Also UChicago gives minimum of 4K/yr for National Merit Finalist which the OP may well have.
Countering this is that Room/Board/Fees at UC is considerably more expensive than at UW so will negate the NMF award.
Yes. UW’s Housing and Food is 4K/year cheaper than Chicago’s.
https://admit.washington.edu/Paying/Cost#freshmen-transfer
Regarding the length of attendance OP has mentioned she/he may want to graduate in two years in UW so a shortened attendance in Chicago is an option.
I have heard many Chicago’s students graduate in three years plus one or two quarters nowadays. Let’s say OP takes 11 credits per year for three years she/he will have 33 credits (16 Bio + 10 Core + 7 electives). If she/he places out 8 Core credits and uses 4 AP credits for electives then she/he will have 33+8+4=45 > 42 required to graduate.
I do not say OP should do it if she/he chose Chicago but it is definitely possible without a very challenging schedule.
There are different issues here:
1° OP didn’t get merit money from UChicago because UChicago offers need-based aid (to families who make up to 220k) so OP’s likely from a family in the top 2% income bracket. That doesn’t mean his/her family can afford UChicago. So, OP, where would the money come from? What are your parents saying?
2° OP’s scholarship depends on his/her being in the HOnors College, which s/he may not be interested in. HOWEVER: not sure why since the program isn’t very comprehensive - UWashington warns counselors in the state that their goal is NOT to replicate an elite LAC experience. Students WILL be enrolled in 3/5 large classes with “regular” students. The other classes are interdisciplinary and different from anything taken in AP and forge bonds between the Honors students. But if OP’s not interested in the Honors Program, then there’s no reason to attend UW without a scholarship (but, I repeat why lose the opportunities, perks, and scholarship?)
3° If graduate school = PHD, then any PHD program worth attending will be funded. There won’t be a difference whether you were enrolled in UW Honors or UChic, the biggest difference will be in experince (the core, the type of students who gravitate toward UChic). However if the ‘grad school’ is med school, then UW’s a no brainer since minimizing debt is best when one has good odds of making it to med schools (as a high stats student presumably would). If UChic would be paid without debt above the Stafford loans, then choose wherever you want to go.
Thank you all for the advice! To address some comments:
I am planning to do an MD/PhD program, which will most likely be paid for, so my undergraduate education is what will potentially put me in debt, not post-graduate education.
If I do decide to go to UW, of course I will do the honors program so I can keep my scholarship! I do not think the Honors Program is particularly the best route for me considering all of my credits (I will probably go for Departmental Honors as well), but putting in a little extra work for the program is completely worth it for a tuition free education.
I am aware that UW and UChicago are more or less equitable when it comes to biology and medical school, and this is why many recommend that I go to UW tuition free. However, I always wanted an undergraduate experience like the one that UChicago offers (strong liberal arts core within a larger research university).
Lastly, I am paying for a third of the total price of my education. If I go to UChicago, that’s ~90k debt for me. If I go to UW, my parents will pay me since I already paid for over a third with my scholarship.
Now, is going to UChicago worth it if it will just cost more money for the same quality (albeit different type) of education? What this comment thread has told me is that nobody truly knows the answer to this question, which is understandable considering I won’t even know until I’m looking back on this decision years later. Anyway, thanks for all of the advice…I will surely consider all of it when making my final decision!
P.S. Anyone else feel like working so hard for four years just to achieve a dream of getting into a top school doesn’t merit getting hit in the face with a 70k price tag? Since when did our higher education system become a capitalist industrial complex that feeds off of the shrinking middle class!!??
Now you do know that you yourself cannot borrow 90K. You will have to have a cosigner for most of that amount.
And even if you could find someone to cosign, the common wisdom is that it is a bad idea to go 90K in debt for UG education. Highly discouraged.
I know you are thinking MD/PhD at this point. Speaking as someone who thought that also once upon a time, and ended up with an MD only, many students change their mind for a whole variety of reasons. Also, these programs are not necessarily easy to be accepted into so no counting chickens before they hatch.
Is there a reason you cannot create a ‘core’ for yourself at UW? Can you not take the full 4 years and give yourself a wide ranging education?
For the record if you’re full pay at UChicago, you’re not middle class - your family likely makes 225+K and middle class is about 60k.
However yes prices have gone up, this isn’t new. It started in earnest after the 2005 financial crisis and has hit public universities more than private universities (at some public’s, prices have doubled or more than doubled in ten years. It’s fortunate private tuition hasnt but it’s far outpaced inflation. A few years ago 40k was considered an incredible amount only a handful of colleges hit.)
All in all though you can’t borrow 90k. Would the money come from your parents loaning it to you without interest? Would they take in Parent PLUS loans you’d then pay back to them ?
$90,000 in debt for an undergraduate education is a bad idea. The best-case scenario (absent a fairy godmother to pay off your loans) is that you graduate from Chicago at 22, and complete a MD/PhD program at no cost in 6 years (7-8 is far more common - 6 is the near-absolute minimum). You’ll start earning real money in your late 20s, after a decade of interest payments and/or principal payments on your UG debt. $27,000 in Stafford loans will cost you $49,000 including interest (assuming a 20-year loan term, since you won’t have the income as a med student to make a 10-year repayment plan feasible). You’ll also need $63,000 in PLUS loans, over a long term, and once interest is factored in those will cost you north of $130,000. I ran these figures using the calculator at http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml.
In short, you’re looking at $180,000 in loan payments. That’s $750 and change each month for 20 years, including a decade when your earning power will be limited by the fact you’ll still be a student. Those are the figures you need to bear in mind.
Make sure, also, that you aren’t extrapolating UChicago’s current COA over 4 years to arrive at the $90,000 figure. Annual tuition increases could easily add $10,000 to the 4-year COA, which would push your debt to $100,000 and total repayments to $200,000. If you’re a heart surgeon at the Mayo Clinic, $200,000 may not be a huge burden. If you find a job that doesn’t pay a top-2% or top 3% salary - or if your MD plans change - that debt will limit your options in life for a long time.
For some perspective, you could attend UChicago rather than another excellent school for your major, or you attend UW and buy a 3-bedroom house with the savings.
*2008 not 2005!!! O_o typing fast has its downsides.