<p>I'm attempting to decide between UChicago and UW-Madison.
Some context:
-I plan on double majoring: philosophy+history, philosophy+econ, philosophy+English, etc.
-My family is middle-class (130k income), and Madison would cost 25k (in-state), while Chicago would cost a hefty 40k. Is 40k too much post-undergraduate debt?
-I plan on attending graduate school (not med school, though). Most likely, a PhD program or law school.
-I'm really into studying.
-I love the intellectual culture of Chicago.
-I have one younger sibling, and my family must save for retirement.</p>
<p>The Madison environment upholds many things I loath (the party culture is almost overwhelming, huge classes (When I visited UChicago, many 15-student freshman classes were in session; Madison has 100-300), a lot less professor interaction, and a gigantic campus. I don't want to be another Madison graduate; literally, 40,000 people attend Madison...
Students seem to be numbers.
I keep hearing that any school can provide a great education. I know Madison can be a great education if you want it to be, but Chicago nurtures the mind in such a unique manner. At UC, instead of you doing all the academic work yourself (which would be necessary at Madison), you would have opportunities coming to you -- the world would impress different things upon you rather than you having to create your own world (a much better model for learning, I think). The core is liberating! Just my thoughts.</p>
<p>I'm so frustrated with this process: I worked my butt off the last four years; I sold my heart, soul, and time to the admissions process; I got admitted; Now, I cannot attend possibly...</p>
<p>If all things were equal, I would attend UChicago. They aren't, however.</p>
<p>Please offer up any experience you might have (from a state school or private school).</p>
<p>If you got accepted to UChicago, find a way to go! It is one of the best schools in the country, and the connections you make there will be fantastic. Your education will also be much better. So many would kill to get into that school. Take advantage of the opportunity, and don’t settle for UW Madison. You will regret it for the rest of your life.</p>
<p>I failed to clarify^: Madison is 25k a year; Chicago is 40k a year.</p>
<p>What if I have to take out 10k-15k in loans per year?</p>
<p>nambugoldstone: So many people claim that “undergrad doesn’t matter,” but I think that’s misleading. If I want to gain admission to a top-notch PhD program – assuming I work really hard – Chicago would put me in a better place.
I think I would regret not matriculating for the rest of my life…</p>
<p>I will give you a parent’s perspective. It is very much in line with what @Dipali posted in another thread on this forum. We have two children in college now - older one at uchicago and the younger one at UW Seattle. Both were brought up in an environment that was all about “learning for the sake of learning” and “learning should be a reward in itself”. UChicago seemed like a perfect fit. After watching S1 and a few of his friends for nearly 4 years, I feel that uchicago’s main mantra should be “learning for the sake of survival”. He already has excellent job offers and admissions to a few top grad schools but he doesn’t want to go anywhere near uchicago once he graduates - EVER. Younger one is thriving @ UW - enjoying his classes and finding time to indulge in a bunch of extracurricular activities. For S2, large intro level classes at UW have not been intimidating in any way. He had no problem getting his profs attention outside the class. He has a peer group that is just as intellectual as any you would find at UChicago or at any top ranked school. </p>
<p>My sincere advice: go to UW and save that extra money. You can always go to UChicago or similar university for graduate studies. UChicago is definitely not worth $40k/yr if you hail from a middle class family. Memories from your 4 years @ UW will be a lot sweeter than from 4 years of slogging at Hyde Park. “I am at the Reg” is what we have been hearing for the past 3+ years whenever we called S1.</p>
<p>UChicago is a great school but kids who go there mainly because of its high USNWR ranking will be greatly disappointed.</p>
<p>Does your UChicago son enjoy learning? What did he major in? He really disliked it that much?</p>
<p>I would not matriculate solely for the USNWR. The school is a really good fit for me, but the price tag is a little much. That’s the main concern.</p>
<p>I don’t have an opinion on which school you should choose as both are fine schools, though it sounds like there is financial pressure to choose UW?</p>
<p>In terms of understanding what your classes at UW will be like, you need to spend some time on the web in the class search. I just checked philosophy, and it appears that lower division classes for majors are taught in lectures of 60-80 with smaller discussion sections. Upper div. classes run 20-25. So not large at all. Though you’d have to take time to go back to previous semesters to see if they tend to run far over the allotted max., or if the numbers really reflect actual class sizes. You can do the same for other proposed majors. Some popular majors may run much larger classes even in advanced undergrad. Guessing econ might be like that, but you can see.</p>
<p>If you got into UChicago, you probably have plenty of AP? UW is generous in granting credit for AP. So in looking at requirements for degrees at UW, you may not need many breadth type requirements. If you do, some classes, like 2nd semester composition, are structured as small classes of 19. If you are in honors, there are many small freshmen honors seminars and possibly other suitable small honors classes. You may be able to avoid large lectures almost completely, depending on your choice of major.</p>
<p>You can’t just take a cursory look and say, oh these giant lectures of 300. It depends. </p>
<p>As far as how you feel about the size of the campus and the number of students around you as you go about your daily life walking around, that is a different matter and personal.</p>
<p>As many will tell you, you should only attend grad school for PhD if you are good enough to get funded offers. Law school is a completely different matter, very expensive. So there is the possibility that grad school costs may or may not be a serious issue depending on which route you choose.</p>
<p>Lots of smart kids worked their butts off in HS and happily attend UW and similar schools. Some of them taking college courses already in 10th grade and doing science research and acing their standardized tests. Others attend, but less happily, due to finances. I know examples of each. No fear that you’ll be surrounded by illiterates if you choose to attend there. </p>
<p>kramej6, if your heart is set on going to uchicago then don’t be discouraged by my negative comments.
All I was trying to say is that the intellectual environment you crave for is most definitely available at schools like UW-Madison. I sense a definite bias against state universities here on college confidential. UW-Madison has been around a lot longer than uchicago and if you spend some time studying the history of college education system in the US you’ll realize that you’ll not be settling for something inferior if you decide to go to UW-Madison.
UChicago doesn’t have much reputation (+ve or -ve) in the real world. To be honest, you will have a better chance getting in to grad school of your choice from UW than uchicago. It is a lot harder to maintain a high GPA at uchicago compared to its “peers”. Good GPA and LSAT/MCAT/GRE scores are mostly what you need to get into top grad school. At a large state university like UW you’ll have more opportunities for independent research than at uchicago. </p>
<p>What happened with your son at uchicago? Truth be told, when I was there years ago, it was a monastic, intense experience. That seems to have changed so much though - great new arts center, institute on politics, nice gym, nice dorms, more diverse student body, etc. </p>
<p>Why was it such a slog for your son? What was his major and what happened? Library culture is big there, but it seems like there is much more going on nowadays. </p>
<p>It’s strange because just last week I had a conversation with some current fourth years and they really seemed to think in the new era, uchicago has changed to be a much more amenable college experience. Still certainly academically focused, but offering a pretty robust experience too. </p>
<p>Our son is a doing a double major and on honors track in one of them.</p>
<p>There is no doubt that the campus looks more up-beat and the student body visibly more vibrant than when I visited the campus 25+ years ago. However, from what I understand, profs haven’t changed their sadistic, apathetic and intimidating ways towards undergrads. They are mostly interested in grad students and their own research.</p>
<p>One of the main reasons our son joined uchicago was its “famous” core curriculum. I think it has become a joke now with kids trying to game the system and counselors closing some of the popular (well taught) classes before they are filled and reopen when students have enrolled in other sections/classes. Admins openly admit this and their excuse is that they want to see an even distribution and have smaller classes. This must not happen when you pay $50k/yr. So, if you end up with a prof/grad student/post-doc who doesn’t have the skills to inspire it ends up being a drag. This happened to our son more than once. Wouldn’t you want to sit in a large class taught by an awe-inspiring prof than in a small class taught by someone who doesn’t have the skills or the experience to connect with students. </p>
<p>Fiefdoms in some departments are quite apparent (yes, I am being deliberately vague here.) I know this happens in many universities but our son didn’t expect this at uchicago. It was shocking to hear about lack of cohesiveness in one of the departments that is supposedly one of the best in the world and I am not talking about Econ. Person who was the director of undergraduate studies apparently started his own REU mainly to undermine a more popular one run by another professor.</p>
<p>Our son didn’t really develop a liking for the city of Chicago and I don’t blame him for that. It is hard to like any other place when one is born and brought up in the Pacific Northwest. Fortunately, he has a very lucrative job offer in our neck of the woods and he is likely to take it. Partly because UChicago experience has left him with a strong desire to take a break from studies.</p>
<p>Thanks luckystar. I sort of regret the post. It’s the first time I’ve been negative. But if you look up and down the thread this particular poster was not interested in helping potential students, just flaming UChicago.</p>
<p>My daughter has a similar experience too. She was in the library last quarter just about everyday. She sounds breathless every time I talk to her. She is trying to keep on top of her grades. I am scared that she is going to burn out at the rate that she is going. </p>
<p>Her reluctance to go back to College was so obvious after the break. </p>
<p>I’m a double major in physics and econ (on the honors track) with a ~3.7 GPA here and the assertions made by UWhuskydad are patently false. If you’re naturally scraping the bottom of the barrel, perhaps his assertion about “learning for the sake of survival” would be true, but generally the amount of time students dedicate to studying here is not unreasonable. I have plenty of time to spend screwing around on weekends and plenty of time to dedicate to extracurricular activities, and I’m doing just fine – as are my friends, most of whom are in hard science majors. People in the humanities have an even easier time. Additionally, the claim that professors are “sadistic, apathetic and intimidating” is also false: most are extraordinarily friendly and helpful, and even the worst are fine. I’ve had multiple cases of full (famous) professors personally leading review sessions and office hours on weekends and other times when they had no obligation to: one physics professor met me one-on-one at the library at 11:00 PM o explain a concept I was confused about (I had emailed him asking for an office hours appointment). And finding research positions is trivially easy.
The other claims are also false, but I’m a bit too lazy to elaborate here. If you want an explanation for any given point, just ask. </p>
<p>I like how whenever someone says go to UW madison, which I think would probably be the best option, they get screamed at by like thirty posters, the fact is UChicago isn’t that good almost no one knew about it say 4 years ago.</p>