UChicago?

<p>Most Chicago undergrads went to top 5 math, physics, econ PhD programs. The rest went to IB. Here are the most recent data on Chicago math major. Chicago is one of the top 3 or at least top 5 places to dtudy math in the U.S.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~may/VIGRE/CollateStats.pdf[/url]”>http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~may/VIGRE/CollateStats.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2004–05
Name GRAD SCHOOL VIGRE
Brad Anderson Texas REU
Dean Baskin Stanford REU(2), VCA
Amy Decelles Minnesota
Andrew Dudzik Berkeley REU, DRP
Conor Frailey Yale REU
Matthew Gelvin MIT REU(2), YSP, DRP(2), RRP, VCA
Vincent Guingona Maryland REU(2), YSP
Nathan Ilten Free Univ. Berlin REU, DRP, VCA
Patrick LaVictoire Berkeley REU, VCA
Amanda Redlich MIT REU, YSP, DRP(2), trav
Ryan Reich Harvard REU, YSP, RRP
Anne Shiu Berkeley REU, YSP, DRP, trav
Sawyer Tabony MIT
Ben Tradewell UCLA REU(2), YSP
Emily Witt Michigan REU(2), YSP
John Zhu Stanford REU(2), DRP
Nathaniel Hendren (?) (NSF, econ) REU(2), YSP(3), VCA
Nathan Krapf Chicago (Physics)
Paul Schrimpf MIT (Econ)
Harold Soong Stanford (Fin. Math.)
Morgan Stern NSA REU(2), DRP, YSP, VCA
Lauren Beitler Teaching REU(2), YSP(3)
Nathan Czuba Teaching REU(2), DRP
2005–06
Name GRAD SCHOOL VIGRE
Anna Bertinger UCSD REU, DRP
William Cavendish Brown REU, DRP
Christopher Dodd MIT DRP, VCA(2)
Igor Gorodezky Cornell REU(2), DRP, VCA
Kristine Jones Cornell
Wai Yip Kong Yale
Kyle Ormsby Michigan REU(2), DRP(3)
James Pascaleff MIT REU(3), DRP, YSP
Sara Rezvi Oswego REU(2), DRP(3), YSP(3)
Anthony Ruozzi UCLA DRP, VCA(2)
Calder Wishne Virginia REU, DRP(2)
Ivan Beschastnikh Washington (CS) DRP, YSP, VCA
Paolo Codenotti Chicago (CS) REU
Alexander Frankel Stanford (Econ) REU(2)
Ian Post Stanford (CS)
Gabriel Rosenhouse Chicago (Neurobio)
Allie Shapiro Toyota Inst (CS) REU(2)
Benjamin Williams Chicago (Econ) VCA(2)
Joseph Ochiltree Bard’s MAT program REU, DRP(2)
Danny Rosenthal Teach for Amer. REU(2), VCA(2)
6
2006–07
Name GRAD SCHOOL VIGRE
Sam Altschul Michigan REU(2), DRP, YSP
Daniel Dickinson Oregon REU(3)
Stephen Flood Notre Dame REU(2), DRP
William Gignac Michigan REU, YSP(2)
Shawn Henry Michigan REU(2)*, VCA
Gregory Herschlag North Carolina REU(2), YSP
Jack Huizena Harvard YSP(2)
Evan Jenkins Courant REU(2), DRP, YSP(2), VCA
George Khachatryan Cambridge/Cornell
Andrew Kiersz Purdue REU
Thomas Koberda Harvard REU(2), DRP(3), YSP(2), VCA
Sara Lapan Michigan DRP, YSP(2)
Robin Lassonde Michigan DRP
Jeffrey Meyer Michigan REU(3), DRP, YSP(2)
Matthew O’Meara N. Carolina State REU, DRP
Daniel Remine Virginia
Lauren Thompson Dartmouth REU, DRP, YSP(2), VCA
Katarzyna Wasilewska USC
Fang Zhao Cambridge REU, YSP(2)
Semere Baraki teaching YSP
Edmund Berry Princeton (Physics)
Mark Conkle Indiana (MS education)
Dominique Duncan Yale (Electrical engineering)
Michael Erlewine Taiwan Fulbright (Linguistics) YSP(2), VCA
Steven Gaudino teaching REU, YSP(3)
Martin Jankowiak Stanford (Physics) REU(2), YSP(3)
David Levinson St. Andrews (Ecology) REU, DRP
Asa Levi High school teaching REU
Chmura Lukasz Minnesota (Statistics)
Joshua McNeur (Physics) REU
Catherine Ruhland Colorado (law) REU, YSP
Jeffrey Schonert UC Santa Barbara (Physics) REU(2)
Satomi Shirashi Chicago (Physics)
Tiwalade Sobayo Medical School REU, YSP
Alex Sugarbaker Stanford (Physics)
Sonja Swanson Johns Hopkins (Biostatistics) REU
James Wang Northwestern (Economics)
John Zuidema (Engineering)
Philip Ascher Group One trading REU, YSP, VCA
Amanda Comi actuarial science REU, YSP
Marina Danilevsky Economic consulting
Charles Doss Fed Reserve Bank Chicago REU, DRP
Christina Iftimie Economic consulting DRP, VCA(2)
Nicholas Kramvis Lehman
Paul Kresky DRW Chicago
Jason Lau Merrill Lynch, Hong Kong VCA
Yixiao Liu Morgan Stanley DRP, VCA
Melissa Peralta trader
Weiwei Tan healh consulting REU, YSP
Alex Tomasik trader REU, VCA
Sokol Vako consulting REU</p>

<p>Here is where Chicago math undergrads went after college. Only 2 or 3 places (Harvard, Princeton, or MIT) can claim better placement results. Most went to top 5 or top 10 math, econ, physics, computer science for PhD study. The rest pretty much choose Wall Street. Remember Harvard Math department accept fewer than 20 PhD each year from all over the world. How many of them have undergraduate degree from UChicago? Please do your own calculation.</p>

<p>Hard Data:
<a href=“http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~may/VIGRE/CollateStats.pdf[/url]”>http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~may/VIGRE/CollateStats.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2004–05
Name GRAD SCHOOL VIGRE
Brad Anderson Texas REU
Dean Baskin Stanford REU(2), VCA
Amy Decelles Minnesota
Andrew Dudzik Berkeley REU, DRP
Conor Frailey Yale REU
Matthew Gelvin MIT REU(2), YSP, DRP(2), RRP, VCA
Vincent Guingona Maryland REU(2), YSP
Nathan Ilten Free Univ. Berlin REU, DRP, VCA
Patrick LaVictoire Berkeley REU, VCA
Amanda Redlich MIT REU, YSP, DRP(2), trav
Ryan Reich Harvard REU, YSP, RRP
Anne Shiu Berkeley REU, YSP, DRP, trav
Sawyer Tabony MIT
Ben Tradewell UCLA REU(2), YSP
Emily Witt Michigan REU(2), YSP
John Zhu Stanford REU(2), DRP
Nathaniel Hendren (?) (NSF, econ) REU(2), YSP(3), VCA
Nathan Krapf Chicago (Physics)
Paul Schrimpf MIT (Econ)
Harold Soong Stanford (Fin. Math.)
Morgan Stern NSA REU(2), DRP, YSP, VCA
Lauren Beitler Teaching REU(2), YSP(3)
Nathan Czuba Teaching REU(2), DRP
2005–06
Name GRAD SCHOOL VIGRE
Anna Bertinger UCSD REU, DRP
William Cavendish Brown REU, DRP
Christopher Dodd MIT DRP, VCA(2)
Igor Gorodezky Cornell REU(2), DRP, VCA
Kristine Jones Cornell
Wai Yip Kong Yale
Kyle Ormsby Michigan REU(2), DRP(3)
James Pascaleff MIT REU(3), DRP, YSP
Sara Rezvi Oswego REU(2), DRP(3), YSP(3)
Anthony Ruozzi UCLA DRP, VCA(2)
Calder Wishne Virginia REU, DRP(2)
Ivan Beschastnikh Washington (CS) DRP, YSP, VCA
Paolo Codenotti Chicago (CS) REU
Alexander Frankel Stanford (Econ) REU(2)
Ian Post Stanford (CS)
Gabriel Rosenhouse Chicago (Neurobio)
Allie Shapiro Toyota Inst (CS) REU(2)
Benjamin Williams Chicago (Econ) VCA(2)
Joseph Ochiltree Bard’s MAT program REU, DRP(2)
Danny Rosenthal Teach for Amer. REU(2), VCA(2)
6
2006–07
Name GRAD SCHOOL VIGRE
Sam Altschul Michigan REU(2), DRP, YSP
Daniel Dickinson Oregon REU(3)
Stephen Flood Notre Dame REU(2), DRP
William Gignac Michigan REU, YSP(2)
Shawn Henry Michigan REU(2)*, VCA
Gregory Herschlag North Carolina REU(2), YSP
Jack Huizena Harvard YSP(2)
Evan Jenkins Courant REU(2), DRP, YSP(2), VCA
George Khachatryan Cambridge/Cornell
Andrew Kiersz Purdue REU
Thomas Koberda Harvard REU(2), DRP(3), YSP(2), VCA
Sara Lapan Michigan DRP, YSP(2)
Robin Lassonde Michigan DRP
Jeffrey Meyer Michigan REU(3), DRP, YSP(2)
Matthew O’Meara N. Carolina State REU, DRP
Daniel Remine Virginia
Lauren Thompson Dartmouth REU, DRP, YSP(2), VCA
Katarzyna Wasilewska USC
Fang Zhao Cambridge REU, YSP(2)
Semere Baraki teaching YSP
Edmund Berry Princeton (Physics)
Mark Conkle Indiana (MS education)
Dominique Duncan Yale (Electrical engineering)
Michael Erlewine Taiwan Fulbright (Linguistics) YSP(2), VCA
Steven Gaudino teaching REU, YSP(3)
Martin Jankowiak Stanford (Physics) REU(2), YSP(3)
David Levinson St. Andrews (Ecology) REU, DRP
Asa Levi High school teaching REU
Chmura Lukasz Minnesota (Statistics)
Joshua McNeur (Physics) REU
Catherine Ruhland Colorado (law) REU, YSP
Jeffrey Schonert UC Santa Barbara (Physics) REU(2)
Satomi Shirashi Chicago (Physics)
Tiwalade Sobayo Medical School REU, YSP
Alex Sugarbaker Stanford (Physics)
Sonja Swanson Johns Hopkins (Biostatistics) REU
James Wang Northwestern (Economics)
John Zuidema (Engineering)
Philip Ascher Group One trading REU, YSP, VCA
Amanda Comi actuarial science REU, YSP
Marina Danilevsky Economic consulting
Charles Doss Fed Reserve Bank Chicago REU, DRP
Christina Iftimie Economic consulting DRP, VCA(2)
Nicholas Kramvis Lehman
Paul Kresky DRW Chicago
Jason Lau Merrill Lynch, Hong Kong VCA
Yixiao Liu Morgan Stanley DRP, VCA
Melissa Peralta trader
Weiwei Tan healh consulting REU, YSP
Alex Tomasik trader REU, VCA
Sokol Vako consulting REU</p>

<p>Y7ongun - what’s interesting though is, I recognized some of the names on the list from the late 90s, and I can’t imagine any of those guys having any success in recruiting with IBanks and the like. They probably had stellar performance in math at Chicago, and got into great grad programs, but they just don’t seem to be the type that banks would traditionally want. I think an IBank would much rather have a 3.6 GPA Dartmouth football player or 3.6 GPA Yale rower than a 3.8 GPA Chicago math nerd who, to put it lightly, doesn’t have the highest level of social polish and would rather wear flannel shirts to work everyday rather than Armani.</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, I’d much rather hang out with the “absent minded professor” type in comparison to the officious Dartmouth Lacrosse guy, but one will have much more success than the other in the world of wall street.</p>

<p>Do you know where Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, CS First Boston, Blackstone, JP Morgan’s CEO or top executives got their degrees from? You don’t think that they will not recruit at their Alma Mater - The University of Chicago, right? Here are just a sample of people who got their degress from the University of Chicago.</p>

<p>Banking and financial services</p>

<p>Roger Altman, Chairman, Co-CEO and Co-Founder of Evercore Partners; former Vice Chairman of The Blackstone Group; former Deputy U.S. Treasury Secretary under the Clinton administration; former Assistant U.S. Treasury Secretary under the Carter administration </p>

<p>Jon Corzine, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, Governor of New Jersey, U.S Senator</p>

<p>John Davidson III, Chief Development Officer of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange </p>

<p>Brady Dougan, CEO of Credit Suisse Group </p>

<p>Paul Idzik, COO of Barclays </p>

<p>Joe Mansueto, Chairman and CEO of Morningstar, Inc. </p>

<p>Paul E. Purcell, Chairman and CEO of Robert W. Baird </p>

<p>Philip J. Purcell, former Chairman and CEO of Morgan Stanley, and current president of Continental Investors </p>

<p>Pete Ricketts, Vice-Chairman of Ameritrade and candidate for the U.S. Senate in Nebraska </p>

<p>Thomas S. Ricketts, CEO of Incapital LLC; family trust was selected as winning bidder for the Chicago Cubs </p>

<p>Frederik “Frits” Seegers, CEO of Global Retail and Commercial Banking at Barclays </p>

<p>Robert Steel, CEO of Wachovia; former Under Secretary of the U.S. Treasury for domestic finance; former Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs </p>

<p>Jon Winkelried, President and Co-Chief Operating Officer of Goldman Sachs </p>

<p>Private equity
William E. Conway, Jr., Founding Partner and Managing Director of The Carlyle Group
Joseph Nolan, Senior Partner of GTCR with $8 billion under management </p>

<p>Peter G. Peterson, Founder and Chairman of The Blackstone Group, one of the world’s largest buyout firms; U.S. Secretary of Commerce (1972-73); former CEO of Lehman Brothers; Co-founder of the Concord Coalition </p>

<p>James Quella, Senior Operating Partner of The Blackstone Group </p>

<p>Todd E. Warnock, Founding Partner of RoundTable Healthcare; formerly Head of U.S. Health Care Investment Banking at Credit Suisse First Boston </p>

<p>Luis Miranda, President and CEO of IDFC Private Equity, India’s largest infrastructure private equity firm; formerly Partner at ChrysCapital </p>

<p>Investment management
Clifford S. Asness, Founder of AQR Capital; previously with Goldman Sachs as Director of Quantitative Research </p>

<p>David G. Booth, Co-founder and CEO of Dimensional Fund Advisors </p>

<p>Charles G. Callard, Co-founder of Callard Madden & Associates and a pioneer developer of corporate valuation models </p>

<p>Mark Carhart and Ray Iwanowski, Portfolio Managers of Goldman Sachs $8 billion hedge fund called Global Alpha</p>

<p>Y7 - do presidents and top CEOs do most of the recruiting, or is it mainly the younger guys? </p>

<p>Also, again, I went to Chicago and don’t doubt that it places well, just that’s it maybe not one of the TOP places to go if you really want wall street. If you really want wall street, it seems to make sense to go to a place that offers the academics AND the appropriate sorta social culture, like a Dartmouth or Princeton.</p>

<p>Y7, you are very confused here. List again those who got their undergraduate degrees from Chicago.</p>

<p>Have you ever worked for a Wall Street firm? </p>

<p>I did, and it is with the world’s best.</p>

<p>Y7 - I have to agree with ewho here, compare the list of financial leaders with UNDERGRAD degrees from Chicago with the list of financial leaders with UNDERGRAD degrees from Harvard, Princeton, etc. I think you’ll begin to see a disparity.</p>

<p>This isn’t to say that Chicago isn’t respected, just that, even when adjusted for size, they won’t have the same representation as some of the more prominent (in finance) schools. </p>

<p>Again, I went to Chicago and enjoyed it, but I like to think I have a pretty realistic impression of the value of a U of C degree (in terms of professional opportunities).</p>

<p>Y7, not like anecdotal lists of CEOs should even be (mis)construed as empirical evidence, but every name you listed is a BOOTH graduate. It has already been stated that uchicago’s poor showing is in the form of undergrad recruiting.</p>

<p>Please don’t rely on wikipedia lists of 15 people over the entire history of an institution that graduates 1,300 people per year (undergrad alone) as a source of evidence. Someone who “worked for a Wall Street firm” should be well aware of the concepts of statistical significance and relevance.</p>

<p>Some of the people listed were also undergrads at uchicago (Ricketts, Mansueto, Dougan…)</p>

<p>I really doubt we have a “poor” showing when it comes to recruiting. Again, uchicago is a target and among targets except HYP and Wharton, the school name doesnt seem to be that big of a factor (this is where interview comes in and where a stereotypical chicago student may suffer, but this is an individual issue).</p>

<p>If you want a rigorous education and also want to go into finance at the same time, then uchicago is right for you. The difference for recruiting to major banks is basically negligible, if you’re preprofessional to begin with.
Otherwise, the other schools may be a better fit.</p>

<p>The thing is that "targets’ in addition to HYP also include Dartmouth, Columbia, MIT, and to a slightly lesser extent Duke and Williams. Chicago isn’t a target yet at the same level. So chicago will probably compete well with other top schools, but some (like Dartmouth) just seem to have an edge.</p>

<p>Ya admitone, I’d put Chicago on the level of Duke, Williams, Rest of Penn, Cornell, etc. It’s certainly not on the Dartmouth Columbia level yet.</p>

<p>This isn’t really a bad thing though - Duke, Williams etc. all enjoy strong recruitment from the major firms. If you want a great liberal arts education in a great city (Chicago), AND very good employment opportunities, U of C seems like a great bet.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Sorry that my previous post was little rude as I was rushing to make a point.</p>

<p>Yes, I did work for Merrill back in 1990s as I was playing the riskiest games (derivative tradings) on Wall Street. My boss was from Princeton, a lot of people I worked with were from Cornell, NYU, Columbia etc. I knew some people from my group in Chicago from Northwestern. No one was from UChicago. The problem with Chicago is its location. Most of the kids I know here (in New Jersey) don’t apply to Chicago. If they can not get into HYPSM, they would rather go to Columbia, Penn, and other ivies.</p>

<p>elsijfdl, you just refuse to admit that you’re pulling stuff out of your ass. i have been out of the process for a few years but i’m still very connected on that front - i’m still in the industry, just on the buyside now. i’m glad somebody pointed out the wallstreetoasis website because that’s more or less how it is in the real world. and that list is more representative of undergrad than grad. </p>

<p>as far as finance mba rankings and industry representation goes, it’s:
T1: wharton/chicago/cbs/hbs/stanford(although weak for sellside, strong for buyside)
T2: kellogg/sloan/stern/tuck</p>

<p>overall mba rankings matter much more and will often override niche reputations
T1: harvard/stanford/kellogg/wharton/sloan (your known top5)
T2: chicago(some would argue that chicago should be in T1)/cbs/tuck/berk
T3: michigan/stern/duke/cornell</p>

<p>baycvroberts - I think this thread mostly concerns the strength of Chicago UNDERGRAD in the finance industry though…</p>

<p>understood. i was indeed commenting on undergrad. as i clearly mentioned in my earlier posts, the wallstreetoasis just merely confirmed what i was claiming about undergrad recruiting. i broke out the mba rankings to dispel the notion that wallstreetoasis was referring to grad finance representation and prestige. from a grad perspective, chicago is a high finance leader (not in tier2). for undergrad, chicago is competitive with any school although i would say that harvard, mit, stanford, and princeton and wharton(ug) grads are slightly more sought after and have better representation. for derivatives, chicago undergrads are one one of the most sought after student populations due to the rigorous quant and econ training - (chicago gave birth to free markets and black-scholes).</p>

<p>Bayvcroberts - wow that is really good to hear. I always thought of Chicago undergrad as on “tier 3,” alongside such schools as Duke, the Rest of Penn, Cornell, Brown, etc. I thought HYPSM + Wharton was tier 1, and Columbia, Dartmouth were tier 2. You suggest that Chicago would be more on the tier 2 level, and again, that’s good to hear.</p>

<p>cue7, with that said, i would say that columbia and stern have better representation on the street than chicago because of proximity. even dartmouth might have better representation in banking with regards to sheer numbers. recruiters recognize the ability chicago students bring to the table (espeically analytical) and would love to have more chicago students on board but i could imagine that given the more academic bent and smaller student population probably leads to smaller numbers going into high finance. if chicago students were to become more banking/finance oriented, nothing would limit them from seeking employment in the industry - certainly not due to a lack of prestige. and there’s certainly a big spill over from the mba institutions that effect the undergrad populations. because chicago gsb (now booth, god) is known as the best finance school alongside wharton, the undergrads have access to this network and companies. the reason why banks like chicago mbas are the same reasons why they like chicago undergrads. highly recruited undergrad schools don’t drift too far away from the reputations of their grad schools. they feed off each other’s reputation.</p>

<p>EWho:</p>

<p>You mentioned that you worked for Merill in 90s on derivatives. Let me ask you a couple of technical questions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>When volatility approaches to infinity, for a non-dividend paying stock option with underlying at $100, strike at $120, with one year to maturity and interest rate 0, how much is the call option value, how much is the put option value?</p></li>
<li><p>For a stock call option and and a commodity call option where the underlying price for the stock and commodity are both $100, other thinks being equal (strike, time to maturity etc.), which option is worthy more? Why? </p></li>
</ol>

<p>If you answered both of my questions correctly (without cheating by using the textbooks), I’ll rescue you from the bankrupted Merrill and give you a job with the world’s most prestigious IB firm.</p>

<p>Dare to take my challenge?</p>

<p>Y7,</p>

<p>1.) volatility can be viewed as the “speed” – velocity without directions. If volatility is inf, that means you can go either way – the price can go to 0 or to 1000000000000. I would price it as whatever you want.</p>

<p>2.) the options for the commodity are worth more. Why? Commodity market is a very thin market – very “pink” which implies a “higher” volatility than it appears. BTW, commodity futures are by contracts, not by shares.</p>

<p>3.) Invalid of underlying assumptions of the options formula --white noise vs brown noise of the reality – caused the Long Term Captial went under. People think in pink noise while the reality is brown noise, when people act, the reality looks like white noise.</p>

<p>4.) BTW, I left Merrill way before you graduated from Chicago. And no thanks for the Wall Street job if my answer makes sense.</p>