UCI Arrests/Expels Students who Shout Down Invited Speaker

Transfer Students UC Transfers
41

<p>yes i understand that the officials made it clear, but thats not the point. Why jail and expulsion? they were simply protesting against a terrorist nation, Israel.
Many university faculty members/audience in the video started making rude gestures to them, by pulling out the middle finger, etc. One person kept yelling out to them that they’re a “bunch of terrorists”.</p>

<p>This is not about civility, it’s about Palestinian pride. Palestinians/arabs will not listen to man bull ****ting about how Israel is a democratic state and is anti-violence. They will not listen to how Irael supports freedom of expression and human rights when they see their brothers and sisters being slaughtered daily in Gaza. They will definitely not listen to a state that continues, till this second, to illegally settle in PALESTINIAN land. This is about resistance, and they wanted to make clear to the world that Arabs/Palestinians will not stand for this ill-treatment by such a racist and genocidal state like israel. </p>

<p>You tell me, if you were kicked out of your home and watched your mother and sister being brutally hurt by the forces that kicked you out, will you sit there in a room and listen with “civility” to that person? Or will you want to resist and fight this person? I’m pretty sure that anyone will go for the latter. </p>

<p>When the Iraqi journalist threw a shoe at George Bush, that was a clear message to the world that Iraqis do not want America to invade it. It was not just an act of humor/attention. It was a symbol of the Iraqi resistance, just as this is a symbol of Palestinian resistance. </p>

<p>And let me make this clear, Palestinians do not hate jews. Palestine is a very diverse place. Before Israel, Palestine was a mixture of Jews, Christians and Muslims, who all lived in harmony. Many palestinian Jews, till this day, refuse to carry Israeli passports- they’d prefer it to be Palestine. I’ve seen many documentaries on this.</p>

<p>I had a teacher from france who went to Jerusalem and told me that people at the border get treated like cows. He’s not even palestinian and he can see the ill-treatment of Israel to people. The girl shouted out at the end of the video, “I’m an American citizen but I go to the west bank and get treated like crap!”
Do you expect people to act civil when they’ve been killed, raped and were refused such integral supplies such as water, food and medicine? </p>

<p>P.S. I’m not trying to be hostile or anything, but I am a Palestinian and have very strong opinions about the subject- I respect all of yours.</p>

42

<p>Yes, but brainwashed Americans will argue that it’s not truly Palestinian land, only that it was given to the Palestinians, whose moderates had always been peacefully seeking independence. But with allegations of Hamas terror squads lolling around the West Bank, how can anyone speak out against the Israeli justifications for using force in the West Bank? Especially when prime minister HaMemshala has the giant military defense budget that the United States continually gift wraps to them each year, despite breaching the purely symbolic US weapons export rules relating to humanitarian laws that come with American made weapons, drafted in the late 90’s. Bush didn’t care when, for example, an American made F-16, bought and operated by the Israeli military, demolished a civilian apartment building in the Gaza strip killing hundreds of Palestinians and breaking US humanitarian weapons laws, why? Because the U.S president literally has the power to waive that law during times of war, nobody realizes this and the thought goes unnoticed when American made weapons are used irresponsibly. So don’t blame Israel fully on this matter when the U.S is equally to blame for pressuring Israel and breaking its own laws in order to arm up Israel for an impending war against Iran that the U.S wants so desperately to happen.</p>

43

<p>ivyambition - Putting all the politics, history and everything else you went into aside (hard as it is for you to see, they are not the point here), these students chose to become students at UCI. When they did that they agreed to abide by certain rules and regulations, as well as assuming a stong implicit obligation to be respectful to everyone else’s right to get an education, in whatever form and forum that takes. If they feel that strongly about everything you said, they have avenues for pursuing those grievances in many ways, including loud and unruly (up to a point) protest in certain situations. But they NEVER have the right as a UCI student to flout UCI rules, and they have to be prepared to accept the consequences should they knowingly do so. They were not “simply protesting” what they and you feel is a terrorist nation. They were interfering with everyone else’s right to participate in a university sponsored event. In the end it is absolutely as simple as that. One has to pick the right time and place for one’s battles, and this was not it. They accomplished absolutely nothing helpful for themselves, and probably hurt their case by their behavior. Fair or not, don’t you think people that don’t know many (or any) Palestinian people look at that behavior and say “Wow, those people are just thugs that can’t discuss things in an intelligent way. They must act this way about everything, no wonder no one wants them”. Not my opinion, but that is human reaction. Do you really think anyone in that kind of setting is swayed by this kind of ranting rather than rational discourse? They are not.</p>

44

<p>On the contrary, I rather enjoy mixing it up a bit. However, he’s right, this isn’t a political message board. Politics is rote, and soulless because everyone is right, and everyone else is always wrong.</p>

45

<p>Hmm well when you put it like that, I guess you’re right. </p>

<p>Also vintij, i never said I only blame israel for this. The US has a lot to do with what happens in Israel/Palestine, especially since the US has such close ties with Israel, and the Israeli lobby practically controls US policy.</p>

46

<p>Actually I retract my last comment, why didnt the people in this video get arrested or fired if they are faculty at UCI? They were making death threats and making extremely offensive racial comments. [YouTube</a> - Death Threats and Racial Comments by Zionists to Innocent Students](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OqtSYx4CZ0&feature=player_embedded]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OqtSYx4CZ0&feature=player_embedded)</p>

47

<p>the free speech works both ways.</p>

<p>The ambassador has a right to speak as well as the students. The students should have just waited at the end to ask question and be more respectful and more organized as a group, but the police at the end was stupid for saying, “open you mouth again and you will be arrested.” That was some bs as well.</p>

48

<p>quote: “All we say to America is, “Be true to what you said on paper.” If I lived in China or even Russia, or any totalitarian country, maybe I could understand the denial of certain basic First Amendment privileges, because they hadn’t committed themselves to that over there. But somewhere I read of the freedom of assembly. Somewhere I read of the freedom of speech. Somewhere I read of the freedom of the press. Somewhere I read that the greatness of America is the right to protest for right. And so just as I say, we aren’t going to let any injunction turn us around. We are going on.”- Martin Luther King, jr.</p>

49

<p>^just b/c you have the right to do something doesn’t mean you can exercise that right at anytime, any place, or anywhere. there’s always a right place and a right time to exercise your rights.</p>

50

<p>The free speech clause does not protect those who violate someones free speech rights. As it was said earlier, you have the freedom to speak when you are not imposing on anyone’s right to exercise free speech.</p>

51

<p>Vintij, watch the video then reply back. Don’t you think with comments like those, these people deserve to AT LEAST be escorted out. At schools in America, students would be expelled if they made any offensive racial comments- well, what they were saying is highly offensive to a minority group. </p>

<p>Lakerforever, I’m pretty sure a different version of what you just said was told to MLK jr when he protested for his civil rights. “parading without a license” sounds like an older version to what you said.</p>

52

<p>Just look at it like this. </p>

<p>You are at the event. You don’t like the speaker.</p>

<p>You have seen 10 people get arrested for outbursts.</p>

<p>In that situation you have to know to keep your mouth shut, but you dont.</p>

<p>You are arrest #11. (100% your fault at that point)</p>

53

<p>Here is a structured way to look at it: The students were simply violating campus policy by ignoring the rules of conduct, sometimes misused as Roberts rules of order, which is something entirely different referring to parliamentary procedures, but the idea is the same when public Universities draft their own policy.</p>

<p>Here is one of a trillion specific and particular opinions that exist, and that I can reproduce: I don’t care what the punishment was, or who did the heckling, or free speech exercising depending on your personality, another entity which I also don’t care about. I’m not a moralist, or conclusionist, if it were a word, or a determinist with idealist principles that symbolic interactionists look for. I don’t really care what was just or unjust about this gaudy attempt at popularity on a college campus. However, I am interested in the choice of strategy these students employed at “being heard” effectively, or whatever “cause” they thought this performance was for. First of all, the speaker has no say in the action of either U.S military operations or Israeli military operations, so even if you got him in a room and he asked for your opinion, he can’t do anything to help you about your “murdering genocide” complaint in question, whether it is true or not means nothing because he can’t help you, his job is to be an ambassador and ambass (joke). The students should have started a facebook page like normal attention whores (I’m on a roll).</p>

54

<p>Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?</p>

55

<p>^
what the hell are you talking about</p>

56

<p>no, no one has really even far to go want look more like that… but i know what you are saying.
why would even want go as far more like that?</p>

57

<p>@ vintij while I agree with you on the part you want to focus on (care about) I must say if you ignore all those other factors it may simplify your assessment of the situation but you will be unable to understand the event within context. and without that your ultimate conclusion is little more than a layman’s opinion. opinions are fine, but it’s nothing more.</p>

<p>@ Random_Monkey you remind me of the Sims :slight_smile: haha</p>

58

<p>These students are idiots. They’re idiots in the sense that they acted like idiots, but even more so in that they dullened their own message. Their message would have been much more powerful to those in the audience and to the ambassador himself if they had been civilized and showed their viewpoint in the final Q and A portion. They may have been able to hit a point home. As it is, they just look like idiots. Like seriously, they looked like a bunch of high schoolers that want to be rebellious but have no idea what they’re talking about. No sympathy.</p>

59

<p>That’s my argument CBbolts. Opinions are particular, but they don’t have to be part of a systematic way of jumping to conclusions. The first statement was simply fact. The second statement was one of an infinite multiplicity of events that are understood “within context” of a specific opinion, or seen through a different set of eyes. Just because I went into unnecessary detail of that opinion doesn’t mean it’s my own, a notion you probably assumed true, it just means I saw through those eyes for a moment and wrote about it. But it’s not my job to care about those other factors because when you do that your argument is tainted, or diluted. It turns to conviction, then shapes into feeling and you get personally involved the way the original argument (the students protesting) intended. No offense, but when you focus on race, or religion, or what type of students they were, or the status of who they were talking to, or what they want, and then you form an opinion based on these factors primarily, you literally ARE the audience that the argument was intended for. Nothing wrong with the audience part, but when the students can predict resulting opinions and an out-pour of attention, I think the argument worked a little too well. A holistic approach is probably the best way to analyze the situation, but again I’m not an investigator, so I don’t care about the best approach. I’m not trying to change the world or predict if these students will do it again, or judge what should happen to them, or if they will get violent one day. That’s the job of people like you.</p>

60

<p>I mean, doesn’t anyone else see the hysterical irony in the statement “opinions are fine, but it’s nothing more.” lol. What you don’t see it? This statement is an argument that opinions are nothing more than opinions, but the statement is an opinion itself, so it’s arguing that all itself is, is all itself will ever be, lol come on that’s funny right? The argument defeats itself in such a beautiful example of multiplicity. It’s trying to be more than opinion, indeed, its trying to fully argue and persuade its reader, but the actual communication/presentation of the phrase is saying that the opinion is all it will ever be. The message is that opinions are not suppose to convince you because it’s only an opinion, but that’s EXACTLY what his opinion is trying to do, convince you. Its a cat chasing its tale. I’m not making fun CBbolt, I like you. I liked the statement that you unwittingly made, and I wanted to go into further detail when I noticed it.</p>