@lkg4answers, I’m pretty certain UCLA admits by major and CS is probably the most competitive one to get in to. EECS at Cal has a single-digit admit rate these days, for comparison, making it as tough to get in to as Ivies/equivalents.
In any case, we still don’t know what majors these 2 students applied to. I can see some school valuing being national-level president more than other schools do.
Was in the context of this (I know it was another poster)
I mean, wow. Hey Elon and Sundar, don’t you dare have kids who want to go to UCs.
Not just that, but the apparent assumption that everyone who’s lived in CA for “decades” must have gone to college at some point. It didn’t really work that way for disadvantaged communities - for a myriad well documented reasons - until colleges started making an active effort to help redress it.
It just happens and I wouldn’t try to figure it out. Maybe the other student struck a chord with their particular admissions counselor. Maybe they had a voice that was unusual in their stack of people. A class full of identical students is really not all that interesting and the notion that a “regular” great student can’t keep up has just got to go away.
Example, my kids both went/go to schools in Virginia despite us being from California. My middle was just telling me about a class discussion on border security and how surprising he found it until he realized that none of his fellow students had ever actually known a dreamer or a family who was here illegally. His classmates weren’t being ugly or awful… they just had this picture of an immigrant in their mind that didn’t line up with our son’s practical experiences from attending a HS with many. Now, this isn’t to start a debate on immigration only to point out that they were able to have a diverse conversation because my son had something different to say based on where he came from. Kid B may have had something similar to offer.
The college course counts as one of the 18 semesters. Which means only 17 semesters.of A-G high school work. I am skeptical.
Please, watch the first hour of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snNPFl1PJNE The AO spells out each and every step on how admissions at UCLA works. Important at about 40 minutes in is UCLA does NOT use the UC Capped GPA. They use Unweighted and Weighted GPA and semesters of AP and Honors Course (honors courses are only considered for In-state).
I think an important point that was made is that each person gets two readers review their application. So that is part of the luck of the draw, who the reader is. Each person is an individual and brings there own biases on the importance of each application, from the type of EC’s, to the quality of the essay.
From looking at Student A and B, Student A is indeed strong academically, but as you can read, there are many with similar stats rejected. Student B is below average stats, so there must have been something about them that stood out to the readers. Maybe they requested a major that they are seeking more students, maybe the essays were compelling to the reader, you never know.
I think it is getting to the point that we are comparing applies, oranges, grapefruit and plums. There are so many top candidates and so many variables that you just can’t boil it down to a few stats.
@VickiSoCal “I am skeptical”. Not sure where you are hung up on this? The weighted capped GPA for student A? She is a straight A student with lots of AP classes. Her capped GPA is high.
Btw - major applied to was Anthropology. Tell me if I am wrong but I don’t think that major is impacted at UCLA?
^^^ Interesting. He made it sound like more than just UCLA and Cal have done away with uncapped UC GPA.
UCLA, UCB and UCSD have holistic admissions (more like private schools, although they can’t take race into account). The other UCs are comprehensive and put more emphasis on objective measures (GPA, test scores). One thing UCLA takes into consideration is “Likely contributions to the intellectual and cultural vitality of the campus.” Whereas, if you look at the UCD website, they just say they use the 14 criteria all UCs use.
This is what I was told by my supervisor who is reader for a UC.
@socaldad2002 @PurpleTitan Few things,
@socaldad2002 I buy it is high, but I see almost no way it is 4.4 plus.
The math doesn’t work unless she took a really unusually light number of classes.
A few years ago my son was a regents scholar at UCB but waitlisted at UCLA. He ultimately was admitted off the waitlist but chose to go to UCB (and loved it). My older son was admitted to UCLA and admitted second semester for UCB (attended UCLA). By the way we are from Southern California despite my screen name.
Re: 18 a-g semesters, I do agree that it is on the low side but it’s remotely possible. My kid took a non-a-g class in 11th grade (Robotics) along with PE, so a student in that situation could possibly have only 8 a-g semesters for a year (assuming the student still has to take a math, science, English and SS class). But I would think that’s probably more of a profile of a student who wants to barely get by in HS as opposed to a UCLA candidate.
For high schools where the normal class schedule consists of 6 classes a semester, almost everyone student I know will have 22+ semesters (my kid had 31) of a-g for 10-11, so max UC capped would be more like 4.35. Many ambitious kids will take college classes in the summer or during the school year, or take PE during zero period so that they still have the full gamut of 6 classes to take, or take online AP classes.
Also from our school we have had some low stat kids get in, but usually there was something tragic that had happened to them (parent died, etc…)
The other UCs appear to use a similar process, but they have more differentiation between applicants by stats, rather than having a lot of stats compression at the top end.
The application essays (choose four of eight topics) are important, and comparison of an individual applicant’s essays to that of the applicant pool is generally not possible for outsiders. That is likely to be the mystery variable.
Once you passed certain threshold, you are in the hands of the AO gods who determine your faith. It’s all the luck game.
An “amazing” essay to one AO doesn’t mean the same for another. You could have a “not so amazing essay” but the AO could relate to what you wrote, they liked you and they recommended you on the accepted pile. You could have an AO who is bitter and resentful toward the privileges and they hate everything you wrote b/c you happened to be one of those “privileged” kids, even if you have written the most beautiful essay to many. You could write about being abused as a child and the AO was abused and they loved you for it. One AO may be impressed with certain EC, while the same EC makes the other AO roll their eyes. Etc. and etc.
Sure all the training on how to be a good AO to minimize the biases. And you have 2 AO reviewers, not one. But they are human and they can’t help themselves. For the most part, the collective AO team gets it right. But you are also going to see a lot of eye rolling, eyebrows raising decisions. We are trying to find logic here but sometime there is none.
My take is this: If an applicant has great stats, he/she should get into one of the state flagships–UCLA or Cal. Period. Getting into the holistic game means gross errors will be made as have been referenced here. There are lower tier UCs, and the Cal State system, where less-accomplished students can and should be accepted. Let’s be honest, isn’t that why UC Merced was created? Schools are academic institutions, first and foremost, not builders of balanced communities. Cheating our most accomplished students by hiding behind the shield of holism hurts California’s best.
@LMK5: Then were and whom will draw the line and define “high stats”? There are more high stat applicants applying to these schools than there are spots in the first place. I am sure UCLA/UCB could fill their Freshman classes several times over with just “high stat” applicants. Stats alone do not define a high achieving student. Not all students have the same opportunities so how do you separate out these students out if you do not have the essays, EC’s, awards, special talents etc… the are considered in the 14 areas of review criteria?
As a California resident, we are lucky in the we have so many options with the UC’s, CSU’s, privates and CC. The UC’s are far from perfect but maybe individuals like you can push for a better system in the future.
I think there are a number of factors in play. Are the UC schools gun shy this year in light of what happened at UCI last year and the 1000 extra kids that accepted? Obviously, if race/income/first gen didn’t come into play, more spots would be open for “high achievers.” That said, I agree with Gumbymom that UCLA and UCB could easily fill their classes with kids that are 4.0+ and top 1% test scores. Still, I also share the frustration of many “middle class” families with no admissions hooks. While we have the wherewithal to provide a nice home for our kids, when they achieve at a high level, the reaction is almost “well, that’s what they were supposed to do,” so it almost feels like a negative. They then scramble to pad their resume with all sorts of ECs that may not enhance their application at all. Conversely, many highl level private schools would love to bring these kids in, but that raises the specter of paying $75k/year without any real aid. It feels like getting squeezed from all sides.
UPDATE:
Student A was accepted to UC Berkeley yesterday!
I think the takeaway is that college admissions can be very unpredictable, especially with holistic admissions. I’m glad things worked out for this kid.
As a side note, our public HS had their first ever Princeton admit this year…
Student A was either white or Asian, Student B was neither