<p>I'm not convinced.. ahh.. I can't stand the area around Cal but the campus is beautiful and I know I'll have numerous opportunities as a Cal grad. UCLA is appealing though, yet if I opt to move out of California at some point for employment (which I may do) I don't know if I will be as competitive a job applicant :/ </p>
<p>I guess I'll need to visit both campuses again ^_^</p>
<p>I've hired many people (in medicine, hospital administration, mental health) and by the time it get's down to recognizing the name of a college, it's a toss up. On the other hand, I have been swayed by a well respected graduate (residency) program.</p>
<p>Cal's campus is...well, questionable...</p>
<p>UCLA is pretty beautiful and is in LA...</p>
<p>Both have good academics..but when it comes to competitiveness, job opportunities and such...UCB is the better choice...</p>
<p>I know that at least in one point in my life I will get out of California...going to a school that East Coasters know will be beneficial but may not be the right choice...</p>
<p>Don't listen to us though. Visit both campuses again and go where you'll feel you will succeed...</p>
<p>I am by no means convinced that Berkeley is necessarily that far ahead of UCLA, and I am by no means convinced that it will even matter after the first job.</p>
<p>This is based on my REAL-WORLD experience, not this forum. Of course, I am just ONE datum, but I know for a fact that this whole school name game is not as important in the non-school world as people on this site think.</p>
<p>Look, even on the East Coast, people hire based on what YOU bring to the company. Not based on what school name you bring to the company. It's THAT simple, guys.</p>
<p>Mmm...I beg to disagree.</p>
<p>moviefreak126,</p>
<p>Based on what evidence? I'm basing my argument on my own job hunting experience as well as that of my many friends who graduated from Cal and UCLA.</p>
<p>What evidence actually exists that runs counter? The fact is that EVERYONE who has job hunted knows that the school name is only important for a VERY short period of time. You do not get a job, outside of the first one or so, based on what school name you have on your resume. You get it based on what you've done at work.</p>
<p>Very good point, I'd say that if a Berkeley grad and a UCLA grad apply for the same job somewhere and have nearly IDENTICAL qualifications (which is very difficult to quantify) then edge Berkeley. Also, don't forget other factors such as grades and activities in college, because no employer would hand a job to a Berkeley grad simply because they went to Berkeley. Don't forget, individual majors and degrees carry different levels of 'prestige'.</p>
<p>The truth behind 'prestige' comes from the idea that students from a particular school are very well qualified and productive individuals, so companies obviously favor those who have degrees from that school. That being said, it doesn't mean a degree from a given school defines how desirable you are to an employer, just usually sets a standard for academic qualifications and certain expectations for those individuals. Like what UCLAri said, as time goes on the 'prestige' of one's education gives way to work experience, productivity, and other favorable professional attributes.</p>
<p>Moral of the story for the OP, go wherever you want to, you'll be fine no matter what :)</p>
<p>littleitaly,</p>
<p>Even grades and major are mostly meaningless after the first job or so.</p>
<p>I don't doubt that there is an edge in having a Cal degree, but I think if you actually look at the people who are recruiting at UCLA and Berkeley, they're pretty similar (or even identical.) Employers do care about ranking, but they care more about making money.</p>
<p>"I don't doubt that there is an edge in having a Cal degree, but I think if you actually look at the people who are recruiting at UCLA and Berkeley, they're pretty similar (or even identical.) Employers do care about ranking, but they care more about making money."</p>
<p>I agree, my argument was more about the global reputation than the regional one, but even then Cal is only slightly favored I suppose.</p>
<p>"Look, even on the East Coast, people hire based on what YOU bring to the company. Not based on what school name you bring to the company. It's THAT simple, guys."</p>
<p>I also agree with this, in theory. however, my uncle is the CEO of a major hospital chain in SF (wont mention which one for privacy reasons), and he hires a lot of doctors. One of the first things he looks at is A) University attended/education, and B) internships/job experience. So, for big-time jobs, school rep DOES matter.</p>
<p>haha, boyy does he have some stories about those Stanford grads ;)</p>
<p>Of course, UCLA is a "top university" per CC... ;)</p>
<p>so it's not like the difference between, say, a Cal State university, and Harvard.</p>
<p>vc08,</p>
<p>I'm sure that your uncle is more concerned with the quality of a doctor's residency than where he went to school. </p>
<p>And seriously, internships? For a physician? That sounds like he doesn't really focus on what's important. The residency says a whole lot more about a person than what lab he interned at as an undergrad. Or are you referring to general hiring?</p>
<p>dt_,</p>
<p>This is something that people miss quite a bit on this site. Relative is relative.</p>
<p>Internship in this case generally refers to 1st year of training after medical school. The second and subsequent years are called "residency" and are often at the same place. "Good" medical school may help you get a good internship or residency, but I think internship & residency is more important after that. Undergrad is only a vague memory at that point.</p>
<p>UCLAri: you are right school prestige doesnt mean squat after first job. A lot of college students do not realize that and select the school that has more "name" rather than where they will actually do better.</p>
<p>However: Name/GPA/Major definitely matter for the first job, at least in engineering. And here the difference between UCLA and Berkeley is slight (edge Berkeley). But obviously between say Berkeley/UCLA and UCSC (no offense) all else being comparable, the UCSC grad may have a difficult time finding an impacted spot in engineering (Bay Area engineering companies). The reason I worked hard to go to a school like Cal was so that I could get a good first job to set me up for a--god willing--promising career.</p>
<p>As for medicine you are again totally right: prestige does not mean much for most medical jobs since there are just over 100 medical schools in the country (though for the highly coveted fields and openings it may have some weight). Anybody who has gotten into and graduated from medical school/done residency is a trained professional. Consider this a "first job"</p>
<p>Bottom Line: Between UCLA/Berkeley Go where you will enjoy the most (and as a result get a better GPA, become more articulate, and have a darn good time). Both are fine schools and I would not regret attending either one.</p>
<p>Go Bears!</p>
<p>ahaha i read the "hella" comments and started to laugh. you gotta love us bay area-ians :D</p>
<p>this has got me all confused about UCB and LA now :/</p>
<p>"And seriously, internships? For a physician? That sounds like he doesn't really focus on what's important. The residency says a whole lot more about a person than what lab he interned at as an undergrad. Or are you referring to general hiring?"</p>
<p>Sorry, I didnt word that well. What I was referring to is what shrinkrap mentioned (internship and, more imp., residency)-please refer to his post.</p>
<p>So I think most of us agree that while Cal may have the slight edge in global/competitive job markets, both are amazing institutions that everyone (or at least I would lol) would be glad to attend. It all comes down to location, climate, and ultimately, the 'it' factor. Go with your gut and don't worry about the rest. You can't go wrong with either.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap,</p>
<p>I know all about the process-- I'm marrying a future physician. However, the internship is pretty much tied to the residency, which is largely determined by USMLE Step 1, if I'm not mistaken. The internship does not determine much when it comes to the choice of residency. It's already decided by that point. </p>
<p>liquidmetal,</p>
<p>I agree, it's very much relative. I'm just saying that the difference between such comparable schools is not likely to be much in actual future earnings. Of course, this may have to do with individuals more than school name-- we can't really say.</p>
<p>vc08,</p>
<p>The internship, like the residency, usually has more to do with USMLE like I said earlier. Of course, there is a correlation between top med programs and better USMLE scores, but that may also just be due to the type of students that end up at, say, Harvard as opposed to CMS.</p>
<p>happy new years everyone!</p>
<p>Same to you, sir. :)</p>
<p>UCLAari
"I know all about the process"</p>
<p>Sounds like you do! Didn't mean to offend! Things have changed a bit since I did it, but there was a time when a few people chose a residency unattached to their internship. I think we are in agreement about what's important (and I would add post residency work experience counts a LOT when your looking for a subsequent job). Anyway, I thought you were referring to a different kind of internship when you wrote this...</p>
<p>"what lab he interned at as an undergrad."</p>
<p>congrats and good luck with your nuptials!</p>
<p>PS;I did a fellowship at UCLA-NPI!</p>
<p>Shrinkrap,</p>
<p>I was just saying that interning for some hospital as an undergrad isn't going to really matter much when you're looking for that next attending position when you're 45. I think a lot of people on this site think that that C in o-chem now is going to come up in conversation during their interviews for residencies.</p>
<p>"Oh, I know quite a few people over there at Brown. It's a great place."
"Yeah, I enjoyed it quite a bit."
"We were looking over your record, and hired a PI to get a hold of your undergrad and high school transcripts."
"Um...huh?"
"Please explain the B in AP bio and C in o-chem, or I'm afraid we can't bring you on."</p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>