Simba, I even know some English majors and accounting majors who also ended up in programming. It took them a much longer time and required a good deal of effort, technical upgrades and luck to get there.
I think it is important to know if JessICan’s generous scholarship extends beyond two years. If so there is little doubt that Michigan is the better option for a career in programming,
Alexandre, I mentioned earlier that the cost of 2 years at UM would approximately be 13k. I made a mistake with this amount.
CORRECTION: The amount to attend UM for 2 years (if I get the same financial aid the second year) would cost 28k, NOT 13k.
With this, I believe that may change the decision-making process a little more.
mom2collegekids, there is no guarantee that I will be receiving the same financial aid for that extra year.
UMich is higher rated in CS than UCLA too. Ann Arbor spartments are usually $600-800/person (sharing a 2 bedroom cheaper a little further from campus or in a Co-op), food (eating out, especially) costs are a little lower, but you have travel. Are you thinking about double majoring in math and CS at Umich? They would both be in LSA so you would not need separate admission. I would check and see if your scholarship extends to cover any additional classes you might want to, or be required to take. Otherwise you might be stuck with 40K/yr out of state tuition.
TooOld4School, I would only major in CS at UM. Cost for attending for 2 years is approximately 28k (in loans).
It’s tough when it’s $23k more per year. I guess UCLA will do fine.
I think the largest problem is the likelihood that aid would be poor/gone for that 5th year. The risk of getting to that point and not having funds to finish is not worth it.
What are the obstacles, if any, for a UCLA math student to either minor in CS…or take some add’l CS classes…or take some CS classes in the summer at a local CC or CSU?
DrGoogle, it would approximately be $28k for only 2 years. However, that’s still a hefty load for me considering the fact that I will be pulling out the loan myself and paying for it myself.
mom2collegekids, you raise a valid point about receiving financial aid for my 5th year (or 3rd year as a transfer).
Unfortunately, CS is not offered as a minor at UCLA. I would be able to receive my B.S. in Mathematics and additionally take several programming courses to have a “specialization in computing”. Since I am a transferring student from a CC, my goal is to transfer to a university and take courses solely at the university rather than going back to my CC and taking courses- if that makes sense :). I.e, I want to transfer and not go back to my CC even though it was a great place to be.
Alexandre, there’s no comparison between a math major, and English or accounting majors. CS majors have to take a lot of math, so someone with a math degree has already traveled much of the same path as someone with a CS degree. With a few CS classes taken as electives, a math major (or just about any STEM major excepting biology) is as employable as any CS major.
The majority of programmers I’ve worked with did not have CS degrees, though pretty much all of them had some kind of STEM degree.
JesslCan, is this UCLA’s Mathematics of Computation major? You would be very much in demand in the marketplace with that degree. As you would with a CS degree from Michigan.
“CS majors have to take a lot of math, so someone with a math degree has already traveled much of the same path as someone with a CS degree. With a few CS classes taken as electives, a math major (or just about any STEM major excepting biology) is as employable as any CS major”
I am not sure I can agree with that statement simba. CS majors take 15 or so CS courses. You are assuming that the OP is going to have the time, and the flexibility to take many CS courses. That may not be the case. Furthermore, will the OP have access to the Engineering career center and on-campus recruiting at UCLA? At Michigan, as a CS major, the OP will have access to the CoE career center. If the difference in cost between the two is reasonable ($10k-$15k/year), I would recommend Michigan.
“mom2collegekids, there is no guarantee that I will be receiving the same financial aid for that extra year.”
JessICan, can you contact Michigan and get answer regarding your FA?
I have been to several of the UMich CoE recruiting fairs and they are packed with industrial, finance, consulting and technology companies looking to hire CoE grads. UMich has both an LSA and Engin CS program, so I would check about the recruiting eligibility (the programs are virtually identical).I suppose it depends where you want to live after school. Both are regional schools with the UCLA alumni network stronger in the west (of course) and UMich in the midwest US and northeast. If you are looking to emigrate from California that might affect your decision too.
Since you will need to borrow $30K I would weigh whether your expected earnings justify the premium, and which subject you enjoy more.
The cost difference for years 3 and 4 ($23K) is not a huge obstacle if you really want the more advanced courses in the CS degree and want an easier path to employment in CS. Things get more uncertain when you factor in that extra semester or year – which sounds like it’s happening – and the addition of another $20K+.
I believe the OP would major in pure Math at UCLA, with a Specialization in Computing. This is the list of course requirements for the specialization: http://www.math.ucla.edu/ugrad/majors/specialization These are the corresponding course descriptions: http://www.registrar.ucla.edu/catalog/uclacatalog14-15-507.htm
It looks like only 4 PIC (computing) courses are required for the specialization; maybe the OP would add another couple. It seems to be primarily a programming track, without much coursework in operating systems, databases, hardware, etc. I’m not an expert, but I can’t imagine the scope of this program comes close to the CS major at U Mich. Maybe @ucbalumnus can offer an opinion on what CS jobs this specialization would allow for.
For UCLA, it might be more sensible to major in Applied Math with the Specialization in Computing. Or major in Mathematics of Computation. You can’t add the computing specialization to the Math of Computation major because you end up with as many CS courses, anyway. Your job prospects in CS would have to be better with that major (or applied math) instead of pure math.
@JessICan What CS courses have you taken at the CC?
Another advantage with studying math at UCLA, besides cost, is that it allows you to pursue other fields like finance more easily, without getting funneled into IT/programming. But if a plan B is not appealing to you and your overriding goal is to get into the CS field, then Michigan might be worth the extra cost. I’d be interested in what ucb had to say about the job prospects with math plus specialization in computing/programming, though.
As @Alexandre noted, contact Michigan and figure out the added cost of that extra semester/year. Then make sure you pin down your career goals and the options that either program gives you.
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Unfortunately, CS is not offered as a minor at UCLA. I would be able to receive my B.S. in Mathematics and additionally take several programming courses to have a “specialization in computing”. Since I am a transferring student from a CC, my goal is to transfer to a university and take courses solely at the university rather than going back to my CC and taking courses- if that makes sense
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Ok…with the specialization in computing, you can take programming classes (this seems to be UCLA’s way around having a CS minor). Does UCLA put a max limit on how many CS courses you can take? If not, then take as many as you can. When you apply for jobs, you would list those (or at least the most significant ones) on your resume to showcase your CS talents.
The others are right that companies do hire “other majors” for CS jobs.
BTW…I understand your concern about “taking classes only at the univ”, but I’m talking about DURING the summer. When you’re home in the summer, you can cheaply take a CS class at a local CC. If UCLA limits the number of CS classes that you can take at UCLA, then a summer class or two at a local CC or CSU can help pad your resume with add’l CS courses. Many Calif kids do this…even those attending prestigious schools. Both of my nephews (Vandy, Tufts) took extra CS classes at Fullerton College and CSUFullerton over summers to supplement their eng’g majors.
$28k for only 2 years. However, that's still a hefty load for me considering the fact that I will be pulling out the loan myself
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Well, you can’t take out $14k per year of loans. Do you realize that? YOU can only borrow about $7500 for junior year…and another $7500 for senior year.
I’d like to add another concern…you seem to be “all alone” with paying for college. If you’d be expected to come home for christmas or summers, who will be paying for those flights from UMich? It is VERY hard to go to college across the country with little family financial support. I doubt that uMich includes much in their COA for travel.
edited to add…I just checked UMich’s costs on Collegeboard. I don’t know if those include all of the COA, but it lists ZERO dollars for travel in their estimated costs. Did UMich include a generous travel estimate in your COA? If not, that will be another serious cost.
Also…do you have to purchase health insurance?
Plus, if you need to work over summers to supplement your needs, then attending a college in your own state can make it EASIER to find those summer jobs.
If you major in CS you get more practice vs just doing 4 years. I don’t think $14k per year is a lot of money for this major but do factor in transportation fee to/from home. One summer you will earn more to cover the difference but it might affect financial aid.
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Furthermore, will the OP have access to the Engineering career center and on-campus recruiting at UCLA?
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I don’t know the answer to this, but I do know that when I worked in Aerospace in LA, many math majors were hired as “engineers” (well-paid systems engineers) and programmers from UCLA and similar schools. I don’t know if they had access to the eng’g on-campus recruiting, but they didn’t seem to have trouble getting hired.
Many, many job high tech job reqs that I’ve seen over the years indicate that degrees can be be eng’g, CS, math, or physics. The applicant does need to “fine tune” his resume for each req to showcase whatever the needed talents.
It looks like the UCLA route you’ve been accepted to is the second listing?
Applied Mathematics majors are interested in the classical relationships between the physical sciences and engineering. They often seek employment in industry, utilizing their skills to solve engineering and computer related problems.
Mathematics of Computation major is designed for individuals who are interested in the mathematical theory and the applications of computing. These majors often seek employment in areas similar to the Applied Mathematicians.
As you can see from the Applied Math description, you can seek eng’g/CS types of jobs.
What CS classes have you taken at your CC? Is it too late to sign up for any add’l CS classes for the summer? If not, do so.
I looked over the UCLA eng’g/CS recruiting and I’m not seeing that a math major would be excluded.
My H worked in eng’g for over 30 years before retiring. His undergrad and grad degrees were in math and physics. He enjoyed a high salary, numerous promotions, etc.
Alexandre, I said a math major only has to take a few CS courses to be employable. By few, I mean three or four. People like that are hired as programmers all the time.
Would probably kill some family member to go to UMich for 13k, UMich all the way
“Alexandre, I said a math major only has to take a few CS courses to be employable. By few, I mean three or four. People like that are hired as programmers all the time.”
I did not say that mathematicians are not hired by major tech firms. I said that CS majors face much better odds. Considering the reasonable cost of attendance, Michigan over UCLA makes good sense.