UCLA vs "less prestigious" smaller schools for premed

College Search & Selection
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Hi all! As decisions roll in, I know I’m going to have to be choosing between UCLA, and smaller, less prestigious schools.

*disclaimer: I know I’m extremely lucky and privileged to be able to be choosing between amazing schools and to have the opportunity to go to college in general.

My parents want me to go to UCLA, mainly for prestige and better networking. I do agree that it’s a really good school, and I know that I will find opportunities there. However, I do want to go to a smaller school, perhaps not as prestigious as UCLA, such as Pomona, Vassar, Northeastern, or BU. Finance is not an issue, I’ve received a good amount of merit money for Northeastern so far that would make the cost about equal with UCLA. Have not received decisions from other schools yet.

Here’s my reasoning to go to smaller privates:

  1. Smaller class sizes and more opportunity for professor mentorship. I have heard from UCLA students that it’s extremely difficult to get lab positions from professors and also difficult to connect with them because of the large class sizes.
  2. UCLA doesn’t have pre-med advising. And from my point of view, it seems like the advising for the smaller schools are a lot more personal and helpful.
  3. Apparently the premed clubs at UCLA all need applications and are extremely picky about their applicants?
  4. Harder to get the class you want at UCLA. I really would like to be able to take those medical school prerequisite classes and not have to stress about if I can take them in time for the MCAT.
  5. The premed vibe at smaller schools (or at least the schools I’ve chosen) just seems less cutthroat, since ucla has an overwhelming amount of premeds.
  6. the overall community of smaller schools is more comforting to me. the closely-knit student population is something I like better.
  7. easier to change majors at the other schools than at UCs (which I could probably end up doing)
  8. for northeastern specifically: the co-op program seems really helpful to me in gaining clinical experience and lab experience.

Why my parents want me to go to UCLA:

  1. it’s more well-known than the other schools I’ve chosen, which means more opportunities after I graduate and during undergrad years.
  2. It’ll be easier for me to get into top tier med schools with ucla?
  3. the overall rigor/academics is better?

Please tell me if I’m stupid to be passing up the opportunity to go to ucla, and to correct me on any of the things I’ve stated above about either those smaller private schools or ucla. any information at all on any of the schools I’ve mentioned would be helpful!

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smaller schools such as the ones you listed don’t necessarily mean less prestigious… like Pomona? cmn bruh. I think it’s at least a notch above UCLA.

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I agree! And even if they aren’t more prestigious I’m not entirely sure I’d be losing an extreme amount academically? It’s just that their mode of judgment is us news :confused:

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Though prestige represents a subjective quality, many associate it with selectivity. In Pomona’s case, it is easily more selective than any public university in California:

This ranking is older and more limited in criteria, but, for perspective, includes UCLA:

For something related from another national publication, this Forbes article includes Vassar in the company of 9 other superb colleges:

UCLA places notably well in a U.S. News subcategory, but this wouldn’t seem especially relevant to your general college search: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public.

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Ucla will actually decrease your odds of making it to med school-remember the Cornucopia in HG? Well, yes, bloodbath: there simply isn’t enough space for all brilliant California students so they’ll be culled/weeded out at UCLA, where, elsewhere, they wouldn’t (due to being very strong students).

And when you said “less welll known” I thought you meant, perhaps, St Mary’s or Chapman. You might not realize it, but Pomona or Vassar at the undergraduate level have great prestige and reputation nation-wide. (Anyone who matters to your future would know what they are and what a big deal they are.)
Some would argue that theyre better than UCLA, especially at the undergraduate level.

The med school process doesn’t take into account the name of your school at all. An algorithm cuts out anyone who doesn’t have the 10 required courses, who doesn’t have the overall GPA or dcience GPA. Whatever the school. After that, it’ll all be based on what you did - and obviously an undergraduate-focused college will provide you with more opportunities to find meaningful experiences, support you through them (colleges like Pomona and Vassar will even provide a stipend to help you take on unpaid clinical internships or volunteer in a clinical setting, which is crucial). Not being one among thousands will be an enormous advantage.

BTW, there’s no such thing as a top tier med school v. another: all US med schools have the same curriculum, the difference is then where you “match”, and this is purely based on your own results. “Famous” MD schools are not better at teaching you how to become a doctor, but they do emphasize research more. Don’t forget that there are also DO schools, which also train doctors, most of whom will be family doctors. All if this is gravy, really, because 60% applicants who made it to the application stage dont get into ANY med school. . Before that, they had to get As in biochemistry. Before that, they had to survive Orgo and rank in the top 20% and to get to orgo they had to survive the first year weedout. See if you can find class sizes (to see the “weedout”, add all the seats in 1st year biology and 1st year chemistry, then look how many students survived to take the next level, etc. 1,100 to 800 to 400 to 250…is common). Look for published average grades.
Keep in mind that to have a med school worthy GPA you need a 3.3/B+ and its not rare for General Biology or General Chemistry to have a 2.6-2.9 average grade, meaning half the class gets a C or below. And these are all the best stusents in California, who never got a B, let alone a C, in their lives.
Your best bet is a smaller school, then aiming for UCLA med school. (And no, there’s no advantage to attending UCLA undergrad to get into their med school, cf “the algorithm doesn’t factor college name in” .)

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Med schools will look at your “less prestigious” schools the same as or better than UCLA. They may be less known by “the man on the street,” but they are very well known in academia and there they are not considered “less prestigious” at all. I’d choose one of them if finances are not a factor.

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Is that based on real data or speculation? Looking at Bruinwalk, the General Physics grade distribution is far higher than that, up to 50% A- or above for one instructor, and comments saying that instructors grade generously are common.

I don’t see much evidence of grade deflation (as juniors, S and two of his close friends still have a 4.0), the main thing to be aware of at UCLA is that you need to be proactive in finding opportunities for yourself, notably going to office hours to build relationships with professors is very important (and extremely underutilized). Basically you won’t have things just dropped in your lap, you have to find them. But I think that’s good experience that is better to acquire before you have to do it in the real world.

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General Physics = juniors (or 3rd quarter sophomores who had 2 AP’s in Math/Chem/Bio). Most premed students have already been weeded out by then.
To be fair, the LS sequence has been re-designed (flipped classes, Learning Assistants, etc.) because the faculty weren’t happy with the way the weeding worked. Yet you can scour boards: most UCLA premeds will readily admit that 1st year is crushing. By sophomore year those who’ve made it have found ways to survive and there are guides to help students be strategic, choose professors through Bruinwalk, etc.

The numbers are an estimation, they can vary year to year.
Can some students get 4.0? Yes, absolutely. Is it common? No. And in the end, in most cases, it doesn’t matter, because graduating from UCLA matters more than GPA. BUT… and that’s the exception… it’s different for premeds because they need to have a certain science GPA and overall GPA.
(In addition, overall, public universities have lower GPAs than private universities with the same standing. Nevertheless, the algorithm that makes the first cut, before any application goes to human eyes, doesn’t care. 3.6 at UCLA is a top student, average at Brown, they have to meet the same cut-off).

If you’re interested in the premed path and grades there, you need to look at the LS core (7ABC) which is not curved, as well as the Chemistry 14 sequence (which is curved AFAIK).

If you look at the Pre-Health profiles, you’ll note that UCLA students who are strong enough to apply to med school tend to have lower GPAs than from other institutions (about 3.5 v. 3.7) and that’s after all the freshmen were weeded out which does tend to point to grade deflation. UCLA students who make it to that point do well, but the issue is why would a student who got into Vassar and Pomona put himself through that wringer when they don’t have to?

I hope you understand I’m not against UCLA. It’s an exceptional university; the quality of students who get in and their outcomes make it one of the great public universities in the US (and comparable to the best in the world); the way it works to recruit from all regions throughout California and with an eye toward social fairness is admirable to boot.
However, choosing a university based on a publication’s rankings isn’t the best way to decide, especially for a premed. This student has choices that would likely be better fits. For many students, UCLA is a good fit, and for others, Pomona, Vassar or NU are.

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It is not easy to enroll the class you want for premed , it may affect your schedule to take MCAT.
I have friend who graduated from NEU, he went to very prestigious Med school. Nothing is absolute.

I don’t mean to blash UCLA, just want you to take away your worry and follow your heart.

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Sorry, but Pomona is certainly more prestigious than UCLA for people who know. I’d argue that Vassar is too. Your parents are misinformed.

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What does “strong” mean in this context? Cum laude is top 20% and the cutoff is 3.78 for L&S and 3.74 for engineering (Honors | UCLA Registrar’s Office)? So a 3.5 would be roughly in the middle of the class.

However I agree that going to a college that grades more generously is great if your focus is simply on finding the easiest route to medical school and you are certain of that. Outside that path, I don’t think you would find NEU or Vassar carrying anything like the same level of credibility in CA. Pomona is OK but like USC, different people will have different takes: some favor public universities and some the opposite.

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Hmmm - Pomona is a level above UCLA. No one would ever ridicule or question someone going to Vassar, BU or Northeastern. All are excellent.

I’m not a med school person but all of those would be looked at fondly and I matter it’s the MCAT score that matters most.

You are talking huge vs. mid size vs. tiny. The question becomes - what is right for you. If you want big lecture halls and lack of attention, then UCLA will be your choice. If you are the kid who craves and needs those 1:1 relationships - you’ll do better at the liberal arts schools. BU and NEU will be in between.

You are debating really good vs. fantastic…the proper fit is the only thing that matters in this case.

This isn’t a debate of UCLA vs. Eastern Idaho. These are all at a similar level or higher.

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thank you so much! I agree with you on all points - and the sheer amt of premeds at UCLA is also another reason why I want to go to a smaller undergrad to be able to stand out more. i also had no idea there’s no such thing as a “top tier” med school! Honestly I don’t care about how prestigious my med school in because acceptance rates are so low anyway I just want to get in. thank you for your help, I feel less bad about wanting to choose a different school than ucla now!

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thank you for the positive look on ucla! if I do end up going there I’ll be okay, I just think a smaller school suits my personality better.

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I agree here, and what you’ve stated about ucla grades being lower is exactly why I’m leaning towards not choosing it. I would rather have a less stressful premed, with more opportunity to get help from professors and their mentorship (and with that better letters of recs). In addition if I decide not to go premed, I would still have endless opportunities in other fields with the other colleges as well.

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thank you! it does make me less worried about not going haha!

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thank you for your perspective!

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I agree 100%, and even so, prestige is not my #1 factor in choosing undergrad schools. The thing is that my parents are immigrants, who don’t have that much exposure to U.S. universities. Unfortunately this means that their judgment of how prestigious a university is is solely word of mouth and U.S. News. And since vassar/pomona are small lacs they aren’t on the “national universities” ranking or whatever and also not many people have gone there that we know of.

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Show your parents this thread. If your goal is med school, you need to be at the best place to help you get there. That isn’t UCLA.

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i will, thank you!