UCLA vs Peabody vs Vandy vs Peabody vs CMU vs UNC for piano performance

College Majors Music Major
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Bit of a conundrum here. Son has admissions from UCLA (in-state), USC, Vandy (25% offset), Peabody (15%), CMU (BXA) and UNC (full). He would be a piano performance major and has good teachers that he likes at all these schools. We have been putting away in 529 and so I want to remove $ from the decision for now.

  1. He is a good pianist but not outstanding, for him to feel that he might make a career as a pianist. His sister is a recent CS grad with a good CS job and that’s giving him some subtle pressure that he may need a 2nd major.
  2. He wants that second major in either Econ or Data Science and his own ranking are UCLA, CMU and UNC (he fed a bunch of criteria to ChatGPT :slight_smile: but is now talking to seniors, alumni and friends finally).
  3. He also prefers to be closer to home (we are in SF Bay area) but could be convinced to be across the coast.
  4. He is not necessarily a social butterfly and doesn’t put much weight on Vanderbilt’s “happiest students” ranking (we do)… but he is nervous about some feedback he has heard about CMU students’ unhappiness levels.
  5. At UCLA or Vandy, that 2nd major could add an additional 1/2 a year or so and that’s OK (he has lot of AP credits and it might be possible to complete in 4 years)… whereas at CMU, the BXA program almost seems tailor made for students that want a blend and still have room for interesting electives.
  6. At Peabody, they have given him “Directed Minor at JHU” - that may be OK instead of a full 2nd major but we are a bit hesitant since it’s quite possible that as a pianist he may be at the bottom half in terms of skill level there and may have his confidence dented.
  7. Reason the 2nd major is Data Science or Econ is because he is also interested in Sports Analytics, Player Evaluation and such…
  8. While he doesn’t seem to be afraid of the “sink or swim” feel at public schools, we somewhat worry that UCLA may be too big and competitive for him to be effective in using their resources. For that reason we are putting a bit more weight to Vandy, CMU and maybe even UNC (smaller public school).
    Would love to hear more perspectives to help us. Thank you!
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I have a son at Blair/Vanderbilt (and he IS very happy!)…one thing I’ll say is that at Blair there’s no cap on the number of APs (or dual enrollment classes) that will transfer (unlike in arts and sciences) and students who have their primary major at Blair don’t have to complete the AXLE requirements that other students do. So it might be easier to finish a dual degree in 4 years than you’re thinking (dual degrees are very, very common; my son is one of the only people he knows NOT doing one).

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I thought vandy made it really easy to double major actually? Hopefully someone will weigh in about that.

I have a kid finishing a double degree this year (CS/Music coincidentally). He went through his entire application process as a double degree applicant. We found out not every teacher is excited about double degree students in their studios or may quietly cap those numbers. Including at programs that tout double degree as an option in all their marketing material.

The schools most excited about having him were actually large universities with rich grad programs that could be more flexible with performance requirements for their undergrad students. That doesn’t mean it is true across the boards or for every music teacher. It likely depends on program needs, etc. That was just our experience. My kid is at a large public university.

That said, I would email every teacher he is considering and ask about this specifically. Ask if they have double major/degree students in their studios and if one of those students might consider an email conversation with him. I think a teacher’s response to this question could be really telling. The most important thing IMO to successful double degree is a teacher supportive of their students goals over their institutional/performance needs.

I know you said finances don’t matter, but if he is really excited about piano performance, I would at least want to have a little to help with relocating/living expenses for grad school because that is a pretty standard path for music students. That said, I wouldn’t press a double degree either. That is a quite rigorous route anywhere and students with music degrees get all sorts of jobs and go on to grad school in all kinds of things. My kid did manage to get it done in 4 years with some summer classes and did come in with a bunch of credits.

Anyway - all great choices! Good luck!

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I think what he thinks matters most.

Is he open to schools beyond UCLA or are you pushing him ? I wouldn’t want my kid to go where they were pushed, vs. where they desired.

UCLA is on a quarter system. Does that matter ?

I would likely not choose CMU or UNC (less geo diversity) - both are far and CMU is known to be intense although many do note collaborative.

There’s not a bad choice here for sure. And all will have ample flights to the Bay Area but if you needed that emergency visit from home many need, UCLA is drivable for you.

Good luck.

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Thank you! Yes, the UCLA quarter system is a bit of a con in his mind because of the intensity amplification from term-compression. We definitely don’t plan to push - he has a bias to UCLA (the emergency visit scenario is definitely on our mind also) and we would like to hear a richer set of perspectives so that we can collectively evaluate the pros and cons. At the end of the day we also want it to be a decision that he has full ownership of. We are just expanding the horizon of what he is thinking.

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Was he accepted to Blair at Vandy, and to the music performance program at CMU. And Thornton at USC?

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Yes^3

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I think the key ingredient here is finding out how amenable and supportive of double majors these programs are. Some colleges encourage this…and others don’t discouraged but in reality, it’s difficult to do.

Remember that music majors by design take a bunch of one credit courses that meet 3-5 times a week (lessons, ensembles, chamber groups). And these are not optional courses.

My music major had a very very full schedule of required courses and he placed out of some gen Ed’s because of AP scores. In addition, when you add in the required practice time (don’t under estimate this), it might not be so easy to do a double major. Heck…my second kid wanted to do a music minor along with her engineering major…and she couldn’t even do that.

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I very much agree!

Of the three (excellent) finalist schools, I only have experience with UCLA. I do know of one student who is an Oboe Performance/Bio double major…but am not on close enough contact to know how it is going.

My oldest was accepted to UCLA 7 years ago, along with several other schools. They were looking to double major in Violin Performance and Biochemistry. Not sure if this is possible for your son, but my kid was able to overnight with a friend from HS who graduated 1 year prior, get a feel for the campus and meet with music department staff/faculty. At that time (and for violin) they got a strong impression that it was really hard to fit those two majors. But I do think piano may be different as there is much less structured large ensemble rehearsal time.
My kid was also really stressed with the overall vibe, as they do not thrive in busy/crowded environments. But that is my kid.
So if a visit is possible, it can make the choice more clear.

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UCLA’s Statistics major, which up to now has been short major, is soon to be Statistics & Data Science, with no immediate changes in coursework. Economics is also a short major, and both are intended to be combined with other studies.

UCLA has a major called Data Theory (DT), which is as its name states more of the theoretical side of DS, and combines Mathematics and Statistics, including having some proof-based math reqs. There’s a gpa threshold of 3.3 in prereq courses, and as the following writeup states, there’s a senior project, a Capstone with an outside company. It’s placing very well in various fields, but it’s a bit more intended to prep a student for a MSDS, MSCS, MSBA (Business Analytics), MSFE (Financial Engineering), and other grad programs. Here’s a writeup from the following video:

The Data Theory major at UCLA joins the strength of UCLA’s Mathematics department with the innovation of its Statistics department to offer undergraduate students a world-class education in the foundations of Data Science. This capstone major is the first in the world, both in name and content. One key academic difference from the Data Science majors proposed by peer universities is the presence in our major of substantial upper division proof-based mathematics. The major is strong, perhaps stronger than some Masters degrees, in Machine Learning, which is at the core of Data Science. Most Data Science programs focus on teaching students the methods of data modeling, analysis, and engineering. What is missing is a rigorous understanding of the statistical and mathematical foundational concepts that underlie these methods. Without these, data scientists lack the understanding to deal with the plethora of problems they will face. UCLA’s Data Theory major fills this need.

In a better likelihood of adding on to his Music Performance major, UCLA also has minors in Data Science Engineering (DSE) and Social Data Science (SDS), the latter of which is intended for Social Science majors. The former is for all majors, and is more CS-based. But if he were to add on DSE at UCLA, it’d be recommended that he add the full Math 31-33 A-B courses as well as take the CS 31, 32, 33, & 35L courses.

There are lots of performing arts majors at UCLA who are combining things like Dance to the premed curriculum, and majoring in Piano and Economics or Data Science wouldn’t be unusual.

A caveat is that UCLA is more theory-based than most other universities so that is something to consider, but Statistics and Mathematics both have built-in programming in its classes.

Let me add that competitive does not mean grade deflation at UCLA .

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My daughter is going to Vandy in the fall for VP. One of the primary reason she picked it is that double majors there are extremely common. Our tour guide was a piano major who double majored in neuroscience. He was in the process of applying to music schools and medical schools! He said he did not have a hard time at all meeting his requirements because of the way the curriculum is set up. It is front-loaded with Blair classes for the first two years and the last two years are relatively wide open. He was very encouraging about it.

The other thing to love about Vanderbilt is that if your son is not completely committed to music is that there is easy movement between the schools. So he would have to get through the first year but after that, if he decided he wanted to go in a different direction and to another school, there’s no requirements for transferring except I think basic GPA requirements.

I don’t have much to say about the other options, except that you have a bunch of really good ones to choose from! My daughter spent the summer at CMU and she loved it there. She loved the music school, and she loved Pittsburgh.

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Indeed - this (2nd major support) is one of top criteria as we are evaluating. It is for this reason he is weighing Peabody a bit less, though I have told him if he decides that 2nd major is not as important, Peabody is his best music admission. CMU’s BXA is a designed interdisciplinary major (X is the 2nd major and the kids do 25% GE, 25% music, 30% 2nd major and 20% other electives) though it could still be very hard to juggle depending on what X is.
I think you are right that solo piano majors have more control of their time (fewer ensemble demands) but practice demands vary depending on professor expectations. And I also think the music theory, ear training and analysis classes could be quite demanding depending on how strong/weak kids are in their ear and in musicianship (my son is technically strong but somewhat weak on these things).
These are all in our mind as well - thank you for bringing them out.

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He is a bit nervous about the Data Theory major though that’s a great standalone major. We constructed a 12-quarter plan with DT and Music, it looks quite packed with no room for interesting electives (and already spilling to a 13th or 14th quarter depending on other performance demands).
Plus those upper division Math classes… he has done Calc-BC but he was not A and 5. That plus some additional targeted Stats/Prog classes may give him enough to be competitive in the job market if he wants a DS career. Data Theory just has way too many required classes in its curriculum plus a handful of hard Math classes. We will look at DSE and SDS minors, and also the Stats major.

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This is great to know, Thank you!

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I guess I could have/should have weighed in on Peabody, as well! Have you visited? It is in a separate part of the city than the main undergraduate campus. They run a shuttle there, but it is not a walkable distance.

My husband and I were undergrads at Hopkins, and it may have changed since then but we were in two different majors/schools (A&S and Engineering), and between the two of us, we only knew one Peabody student. She managed to lead a very integrated life between the two campuses, but I think she worked hard for it and was the exception not the rule. (Honestly, I’m not even sure where the Peabody students live.)

My daughter did not apply to Peabody because she was looking for a more traditional college experience, and felt she wouldn’t be able to get it at Peabody. However, I think a certain kind of driven student could, but my daughter is VERY laidback and would not end up doing anything that took her very far out of her way.

On the other hand, I think Peabody is probably an excellent fit for anyone looking for a conservatory education with the resources of a major academic/research institution…if not necessarily the typical college experience.

Again, this is very much my opinion/take. I love Baltimore and JHU, and would be delighted for her to go to grad school there if/when she’s ready to be more singular in her focus.

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Thank you for sharing that! My son did go there for his audition with my wife - this was his last audition in his somewhat grueling schedule and honestly he just wanted to be done and didn’t try to get into the campus vibe. He loved a couple of the piano faculty there but the distance between Peabody and Homewood (that’s the main campus, right?), plus the very small percent of Peabody kids that do substantive work in other fields are a bit of a damper. Also this - "The administration gives so little thought to Peabody" : Students criticize disparities across campuses - The Johns Hopkins News-Letter

I will dig in a bit more next week before closing it out completely (though his UCLA bias continue to be strong) for all the reasons you highlight. My son isn’t always laidback especially when one of us is holding him accountable… I am just hoping he grows out of that dependance before September :slight_smile:

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Congratulations! Great selection of schools. I have TONS of knowledge about Peabody/JHU (son is a graduating senior there who has been pursuing a minor and has specific opinions about that) and USC Thornton (lots of friends and family have attended with one considering a double major between Thornton and Viterbi, son is doing his Masters at Thornton starting this fall, and I have my own experience with USC on multiple fronts). I also have some knowledge about UCLA Herb Alpert and other parts of the university.

Feel free to DM me if you’d like to talk more.

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I would push back just a bit on your comment that your S is not outstanding enough of a pianist to create a career for himself in piano. First of all, he’s been accepted to wonderful programs (and he’s young)!

Second, one of the advantages to him attending a great program is finding mentors and peers who are also preparing for a career in music. While as a parent, it can be difficult to know the possibilities for a music major’s outlook, these mentors will be able to give him a better sense of his options.

In addition, music majors often do well in fields outside of music after college, and can be desirable due to the work ethic and skills he may have gained as one. It isn’t unusual for music majors to change careers (sometimes a minor in a second area starts them off).

Best of luck to your family!

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Thank you for saying that… I did need to hear that. We get carried away and try to measure up against youngsters that we have either been floored by (competitions, YouTube etc.) or we are reminded by our kids flaws which we see a lot more of, than the ones we are floored by. You are right - clearly these great teachers at these fantastic schools see something and I fully agree with you about being optimistic about the force multiplier that the right environment will provide!

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I have a rising junior. I would love to hear more

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