UCLA vs. Rice

College Search & Selection
1

Hi!

I have been accepted to both UCLA (oos) and Rice and am deciding between the two. I am super conflicted as they are extremely different schools and I can see myself at either. Although I am still undecided, I possibly want to major in something relating to Environmental Policy, Sustainability, or Political Science.

My main concerns with UCLA are class sizes and enrolling in appropriate classes. I worry that certain opportunities will be less visible in such a big school and about accessibility to professors. However, for me the location is a positive and I really enjoyed the vibe of the school when I visited. I appreciate the school spirit of UCLA and the politically active campus.

My main concerns with Rice are the small size, as I initially never thought I would go to a smaller school. I really appreciate the individualized guidance that Rice offers including small, discussion-based classes. I think I could be happy in Houston (I think it is an underrated city), but it seems most Rice students don’t interact with the surrounding city that much. I really like the residential college system of Rice.

Also, I really value a healthy work-life balance and not studying 24/7 without enjoying life along the way, and think that in order for me to have a good college experience I would want to be surrounded by individuals who feel the same. Although I know Rice parties more than people give it credit for, I really do value my social life and going out, and think that UCLA might have a slight edge in that regard.

It seems like it would be a bit easier to pursue my specific academic interests at Rice as each student’s path is pretty personalizable due to the small size. Also, I appreciate that each person’s impact at Rice is probably more significant than at UCLA. It may be a misconception, but I feel as if my education may be more fully stretched at Rice.

So basically I am trying to weigh the perceived better overall college experience of UCLA and the better location with the perceived better education of Rice and personalized experience.

Any input is appreciated; I don’t really have much time to decide and am feeling super confused!

Thank you!

2

I can empathize with your dilemma. UCLA and Rice were two of the final four schools that my daughter–now a senior at Rice–was choosing between. We live in SoCal, so UCLA was the “local” option, and she would have had a number of friends there had she enrolled. However, Rice’s more generous financial aid offer actually made it cheaper for us (though, of course, travel expenses were greater). Another factor in Rice’s favor was something you touched upon in your post: The flexibility of the curriculum (including ease of signing up for classes and switching majors) encourages students to explore multiple fields of study and to pursue their own individualized paths of learning.

This is an advantage not to be underestimated, especially when you consider that many departments at UCLA (and at the UCs in general) are “impacted” by student demand that outstrips available teaching capacity. Consequently, a student who is accepted to pursue Major #1 but who finds his or her interests changing–which is not an uncommon scenario–might find it difficult or even impossible to shift to Major #2 if said major is impacted. Rice makes it much easier to switch gears and take new directions; my daughter, for example, started out as a humanities major but ended up as an econ major. No one could have predicted that, and had she gone to UCLA, such an outcome would have been unlikely at best, simply owing to the institutional dynamics. Given your interests, the flexibility afforded by Rice sounds to me like something that you might want to weigh heavily in making your decision.

As for social life, you will find no lack of parties at Rice (or, for that matter, lack of Bible studies if you are so inclined!). As far as I can tell, the social life for the average student at Rice–which has residential colleges rather than frats and sororities–is probably richer and more varied than the social life of the average non-Greek student at UCLA, where parties revolve around frats and sororities. Both schools can be academically intense, but UCLA–in part because of it size–tends to be much more competitive. If you want to combine intellectual challenge with a more laid-back, collaborative atmosphere, Rice would be the better choice.

Finally, while Houston isn’t LA, it is a huge (fourth most populous in the US), diverse, and economically vibrant city. There is a lot going on, from opera to rodeo, and the campus is located in a lovely neighborhood within walking distance of the very cool, very student-oriented Rice Village complex of restaurants, bars, shops, and other businesses. My daughter prefers it to Westwood, which feels more overtly “big city,” whereas the area around Rice is more akin to a small-town oasis in the midst of a big city.

As far as the “college experience” that you refer to in closing your post, UCLA is certainly a more rah-rah, big-time-sports oriented school. Aside from gamedays, however, I think you would find that Rice offers a fantastic college experience; it has, for example, historically been at or near the top of the Princeton Review rankings for “Overall Quality of Life” and “Student Happiness.” Rice offers key aspects of the liberal arts college experience without the sometimes oppressive “fishbowl” quality of life on a truly small LAC campus; on the other hand, it offers the resources of an elite research university without subjecting students to the relative anonymity that can come from having nearly 30,000 undergraduates enrolled (as at UCLA).

In sum, it sounds to me as if Rice would be a great fit for you, but in the end you should probably go with your heart on this one. Both are great schools, and you can’t go wrong either way. Good luck!

3

“…my daughter, for example, started out as a humanities major but ended up as an econ major. No one could have predicted that, and had she gone to UCLA, such an outcome would have been unlikely at best, simply owing to the institutional dynamics.”

That’s really not true at all. Econ is also part of L&S so it’s easy to switch into from humanities. What would be infeasible at UCLA is switching to engineering. But OP’s interests are all in L&S so there’s no need to worry about pursuing that mix of topics. No one has a fixed major until they have completed the lower division pre-requisites. And polisci is such a short major that many people take a second major, often economics.

That’s what my S18 started with, but he’s now moved across to Public Affairs where they just started offering a BA a couple of years ago. What attracted him is that it includes a policy internship in your senior year and Luskin is a very small school so it’s been easy to get to know the professors (including Michael Dukakis). Class sizes and course registration haven’t been a concern, he’s got into everything he wanted, and it’s not been difficult to get As. The students at UCLA all seem incredibly happy, which I put down to the weather and amazing food. The dorms are a downer (all triples), but that makes it a very social experience.

4

@Twoin18 . . . undoubtedly, once a preconception or an unwitting conception makes its rounds on this board, then people tend to classify it as fact, and it happens a lot with UCLA and Cal, and generally a lot of public universities.

Here are the [Housing Contracts](https://housing.ucla.edu/my-housing/rates-contracts-rules/2018-2019-contract-housing-rates-and-payment-plans) in which UCLA does offer singles, doubles and triples for students at various prices and meal plans. I think the University should reduce triples to a price that is at least moderately less than the housing (apartments) that surrounds the school at like occupancies of units, just to impart some social good.

This isn’t true with respect to UCLA. Bible studies among the students is popular, and one will see them strumming guitars and singing hymns in Meyerhoff Park. But Thursdays, too, at UCLA at the residence halls located north of the classrooms (known as “the Hill”), are the big cut-loose days in which hall mates let off steam, and because of this a lot of students try not to schedule Friday class.

Additionally, UCLA non-greeks have a very good travel life and a lot of them will hike the Santa Monica Mountains, eat and shop and see a movie at the Westfield Mall in Century City, go to Zuma or Venice Beach, and see the Getty Museum; or they venture outside of the area they can go to Griffith Park or to the Stadium to see the Dodgers play, experience The Grove, etc.

@lostsenior19 . . . I wouldn’t worry about social life of those who inhabit dorms at UCLA, but by all means if Rice is for you then you will have chosen well. But UCLA does offer capstones for many majors, in which students can work closely with professors, either with individual or group projects, and about half of the students do research with professors.

5

@firmament2x: My remark about the difficulties that institutional constraints within the UCs pose for some students in choosing/switching majors was based on years of teaching both at a UC and at a CC that sends many transfer students to the UCs. I cannot speak to the online “preconceptions” and “unwitting conceptions” which you refer to, but I can say that my observations were based on the experience of working directly with students within the UC system.

Do these constraints affect all students? Of course not. Most students, and certainly most students who are fully committed to their initial majors, won’t even notice them (though in certain impacted majors they can run into trouble registering for their courses owing to high demand). However, I would still maintain that Rice is less likely than UCLA to present institutional impediments to the student who lacks a clear plan of attack and who is thus more inclined to open-ended academic exploration. Based on the initial post in this thread, the OP struck me as such a student.

On another front, I certainly did not mean to suggest that UCLA is lacking in Bible studies. (During admitted students day, the campus did indeed feature many groups of guitar-strumming representatives of student religious organizations interacting with prospective students.) My intent, rather, was to allay the OP’s fear that Rice is little more than a party-less study-hall without at the same time giving the wrong impression that partying is the only, or even the primary, sort of social interaction that occupies Rice students. Like UCLA students, Rice students have the resources of a sunny metropolis ready to hand, and they make good use of those resources. When Rice students do want to party, however, they will never find themselves excluded from participation by their lack of membership in a Greek organization; such is not the case at UCLA, particularly for those beyond their freshmen year.

FWIW, I think that UCLA is a great school, and I would have been quite happy if my daughter had ended up there. It simply seemed to me that some of the considerations that prompted her to opt for Rice would also be relevant to the OP.

6

Your tenor, (edit:) @MrSamford2014 , is entirely different in your latest post. It’s seemingly conciliatory or more so, as opposed to your quote which I framed. Let me re-quote the part I was addressing and highlight the part you have yet to address:

Twoin18 already addressed the impaction part of your post, and I wanted to address your notion that any form of social life at UCLA is at least mostly contained in greek life. I showed that it wasn’t; non-greeks at UCLA can and do have an active life outside of studying because LA and its surrounding area have so many things to do, and the students do partake.

Let me add a very simple, fairly inexpensive one:

One can experience the drive down one of the world’s most famous streets, Sunset Boulevard, from its beginning at and through Pacific Palisades, ascending and descending through hairpin turns just west and east of the University, where the Boulevard dips as it adjoins campus almost as if it deigns in reverence to it, and where walled estates are on the north and south side aside the gates of Bel Air; then through Beverly Hills and east of it where it reaches its most northerly parts south of the Hollywood Hills; then through its busiest part as it goes through downtown where finally ends, among the rich mix ethnicities that is so different than where it began, making the Boulevard a sociologist’s dream.

… And you might also want to address the parts Twoin18 addressed with him/her for a more well-rounded discussion, so one won’t think that UCLA is only about the ancillaries.

7

@lostsenior19: This is an interesting thread. I think that you understand your options quite well.

Yesterday an article noted that LA again, 19th time in last 20 years, leads the nation for worst air quality / air pollution. Does this concern you ? (Especially relevant as a prospective environmental policy major.)

8

@MrSamford2014 at which UC did you teach? In previous threads, I’ve read that your wife is/was a community college teacher but this is the first reference I’ve seen of either of you teaching at a UC.

If you spent years teaching at a UC, you know that one can’t make sweeping generalizations about all of the UC campuses, colleges, majors and departments. They each have their own, and often very different, policies with respect to changing majors, adding minors, creating your own major, etc.

OP, Both schools are great so go to a school that is affordable and where you feel you will be most happy.

I’m surprised that your specific interests not available at UCLA which has two institutes with majors related to what seem to be your interests. You could choose a major in IOES or AOS and minor in policy or major in policy and choose a minor in IOES. From http://www.ucla.edu/environment-and-sustainability and https://www.ioes.ucla.edu/envisci/overview/

I’m not sure what you are referring to when you say, “I worry that certain opportunities will be less visible in such a big school” What opportunities are you talking about and what do you mean when you say you are concerned that they will be “less visible”?

For what it is worth, UCLA also offers the ability to design your own major. https://catalog.registrar.ucla.edu/ucla-catalog18-19-821.html

9

This is only partially correct regarding UCLA.

At UCLA it can be difficult to switch from one college to another depending on the pairing, say Letters & Science to Engineering or Theatre, but it is never a problem to switch to Letters & Science from another college. Most undergrad majors are found in Letters & Science.

As for particular majors within Letters and Science this post is incorrect. Nobody is accepted as a frosh into an impacted major such as Econ at UCLA. Instead they are put into the pre-major, which doesn’t really mean anything. These students still have to satisfy the requirements to be admitted into the major, typically doing so soph year. A Humanities major, to continue the example above, can take the prerequisite classes and apply to be an Econ major with absolutely no difference from what a pre-Econ major would do. And as long as they can show they can finish the major while staying under the UCLA unit cap they change majors so at any time while an undergrad. You can see the complete list of L&S majors that start students in a pre-major at http://www.admission.ucla.edu/Prospect/Majors/lsmajor.htm (they have note 1 attached)

10

“[Y]ou know that one can’t make sweeping generalizations about all of the UC campuses, colleges, majors and departments.”

Agreed. The UC system is vast and sometimes arcane. My generalizations were–precisely as generalizations–intended to provide a big-picture contrast between certain aspects of academic life at a very large public flagship university and at a much smaller private university. Hopefully, the OP has delved into the particulars relevant to his or her areas of interest at UCLA, since these particulars would define the UCLA experience.

“Nobody is accepted as a frosh into an impacted major such as Econ at UCLA. Instead they are put into the pre-major, which doesn’t really mean anything. These students still have to satisfy the requirements to be admitted into the major, typically doing so soph year.”

This tends to support rather than to refute my basic contention. Freshmen in some prospective majors at UCs need to focus their academic attention on performing well enough to gain admission to their desired majors. (For some students, the stress and uncertainty is almost a repeat of the stress and uncertainty they endured in applying to college in the first place.) They do not have the luxury of spending their first semesters trying on for size courses drawn for a variety of fields unrelated to their prospective major–courses in which they might not perform well, thus impacting their academic records. Again, this probably does not affect the vast majority of UC students, but it does affect some.

At Rice, my daughter–who arrived as a humanities major and who didn’t take calculus in high school–did not even begin thinking about becoming an econ major until well into her sophomore year. Making that switch (which involved signing up for all sorts of math and statistics pre-reqs at a relatively late stage in her college career) would have been much more difficult–if not impossible–at UCLA. This hardly strikes me as a controversial claim. Indeed, the curricular flexibility typically afforded by LACs is regularly, and rightly, cited on CC as a primary advantage that they have over large universities that boast vastly greater resources. Rice isn’t a LAC, but it’s about as close as an elite research university comes. Whether or not such considerations are relevant to the OP’s situation is for him or her to decide. If I were in love with UCLA and really wanted to attend, I certainly wouldn’t let myself be scared off by the knowledge that I would have less flexibility and more bureaucratic hoops to jump through than I would at a different school; in the greater scheme of things, that would be small potatoes.

In sum, UCLA and Rice are both excellent universities that would well serve the OP’s academic interests. My basic points were that Rice isn’t a laggard when it comes to social life and that it would probably provide make wide-ranging academic exploration and major-switching less onerous than would be the case at UCLA.

11

Not exactly.

I’m not going to claim I’ve read the list of requirements for every major at every UC. But for those I’ve seen it is 6-10 classes related to the major and they only look at how you do in those courses.

At UCLA for our favorite Econ it is 4 Econ classes, 2 calculus classes, and any writing class. The stringent requirement they hold you to is “Complete all pre-major courses with a minimum 2.5 grade point average and a “C” or better in each course.” and do not seem to care what you get in any other class in which they might not perform well (although presumably you need to do well enough not to get kicked out of UCLA).

for UCLA Psychology they list a different set of 7 classes to apply for the major and say you must have a 2.5 in the 7 classes to be eligible to apply for the major and are guaranteed admission if you have a 2.9

So the way I read it students still have complete freedom to try on courses in fields unrelated to their prospective major without concern for how they perform. Given students take 11 courses a year to meet minimum progress and that they can declare their 2nd or 3rd year (depending on major) there is plenty of room to explore other fields. And in fact it was common for friends I knew to switch majors 2 or 3 times before settling by junior year.

She would have had to take just the 7 required classes and the only requirement would have been that she finish them before she had 135 units (eg end of junior year). Does not seem impossible to me. If she already had taken any qualified writing class (most get the L&S Comp requirement out of the way frosh year) then it is 6 classes.

To be honest I didn’t know that much about colleges when I was in HS so I don’t think I considered things as much. This is a personal decision, but if I was facing this and could afford both I’d choose Rice for the smaller and more personal classes. YMMV