<p>How does Johns Hopkins vs UCSD vs UCLA compare in terms of their medical field, specifically biomed. Also, are there any 7-8 year premed programs that they offer?</p>
<p>undergrad btw</p>
<ol>
<li> Hopkins</li>
</ol>
<p>gap</p>
<ol>
<li> UCLA</li>
<li> UCSD</li>
</ol>
<p>The major differences here are 1) cost, 2) undergraduate rigor 3) reputation and 4) size. Nothing to scoff at from UCLA and UCSD, but Johns Hopkins takes the cake over every school for medical school preparation. The courses there are tough, especially Biomedical Engineering (BME) but that is why the students there are extremely successful. Keep in mind that at Hopkins, only 1,200 students enter per year across all majors where as at the UC's there are literally 6,000+ students entering every year that is a MAJOR difference and is reflected in the quality and access to faculty. </p>
<p>Size of the schools is DRASTICALLY different.</p>
<p>hopkins has the best premed program in the US.</p>
<p>so why do many choose ucsd over ucla when going into the medical field. I also understand that hopkins has an incredible graduate program, but is their undgrad as strong? I mean do you really get to work with the professors that teach graduates as undgrads?</p>
<p>i dont think there is such thing as a premed "program"...being premed just means you need to take a series of required classes. so i wouldnt go as far as to say JHU has the best premed program, though i wouldnt be surprised if JHU has MANY valuable resources for premeds and if one takes advantage of them JHU would be a very stellar premed "program" or whatever u wanna call it. i also heard they screen before the committee writes a rec for you for med school. so u gotta be tops to do well.</p>
<p>i believe ppl choose ucsd over ucla for premed studies b/c ucsd is known for its biosciences/bioengineering (which was invented here) and does a great amount of research in those fields. i dont think its that big of a deal to go "zomg ucsd pwns ucla for premed". again, its how active you are looking for research/activities/help/advising which is kinda hard for big schools like the UCs. you really need to step up and go for it to stand out. UCSD, though, seems to cater and offer more to prehealth students than UCLA. UCSD has 3 hospitals in its vacinity, many biotech companies in la jolla that recruit undergrads for internships, has lots of prehealth clubs that does advising and hooks you up with physicians/dentists/optometrists.., etc. im sure UCLA has lots to offer as well but i wouldnt know since im not a bruin.</p>
<p>I need to address the myth that Hopkins "screens" its students who apply to med school. Like other top institutions, JHU has a professional advisory committee that coodinates recommendations for those applying to med school, law school, etc. This procedure is optional. It is there for the benefit of students--not to create a barrier. Because Hopkins has so many students applying to professional schools, it would be quite chaotic if every applicant was seeking recommendations on their own. But a student is perfectly free to apply on his or her own if they prefer. </p>
<p>If, however, one chooses to utilize the committee's services, you have to expect that the committee will be honest with you. If you have a 2.0 average--you may graduate but you aren't going to be accepted at any American medical school--and you can't expect that the University is going to give you a favorable recommendation. They have a reputation to uphold, and it is that reputation that accounts for the exceedingly high medical school acceptance rate of students who are favorably recommended by the committee. In other words, mere admission to and graduation from the university does not mean that you have earned a favorable recommendation. I can't imagine that this policy is any different at other institutions. The problem I have is with the word "screening." The inference that JHU somehow sabotages applications of students who otherwise would have been admitted to medical school is totally unfounded and ridiculous. To the contrary, the committee is as supportive as possible but it won't encourage a clearly unqualified candidate.</p>
<p>Premed "route" is better. And im pretty sure you have a better chance getting into their med program after.</p>
<p>As for going to UCs, they are great and cheap (compared to Privates).</p>
<p>top biomed programs are Hopkins and UCSD. However, anyone in thier right mind would choose any school but Hopkins if planning for med school. Hopkins has no grade inflation, and the premed route is brutal. The simple fact is that most premed Frosh at Hopkins do NOT attend med school -- they end up in the humanities. UCR would be a cake-walk in comparison.</p>
<p>Bonanza, Hopkins is a great school. However, you've just described typical "screening". No school can prevent a weak applicant from applying. They can only deny them a favorable recommendation. </p>
<p>For better or worse, some elite schools do not discourage even weak students from applying. This undoubtedly lowers the acceptance rate since many marginal candidates will be rejected.</p>
<p>To the OP, UCSD has a combined BS/MD program. A son of my colleague agonized between that and Harvard before finally accepting Harvard. If only everybody were so lucky to have choices ...</p>
<p>
[quote]
For many undergrads, however, seeking guidance from Fishbein and Savage can be an intimidating, sometimes negative encounter. Junior premed Jamie Lee Palaganas summed up the impression that many freshman and sophomores get upon having their first meeting with the advisors: "You get the impression that they're going to use [a lot of] scare tactics to convince you not to go to med school. They're very honest, and if you're not ready for what they're going to say, it's going to be harsh."</p>
<p>... Recent premed graduate Brett Gutterman felt that Fishbein and Savage discourage students who may actually have a chance of being admitted to medical school.</p>
<p>"I feel that they try to demean people who's grades are marginal in order to convince them not to go to medical school," he said. The result is, said Gutterman, that people who could get in marginally with a 3.2 do not even apply. "They think people won't get in, but I personally know people who've gotten in with a sub-3 GPA and sub-30 MCATs." </p>
<p>...A few premeds expressed their concern that the GPA and MCAT requirements held by Fishbein and Savage are merely an effort to maintain the high admit-rate of Hopkins premeds to medical school,...</p>
<p>A student with a much lower GPA can still insist on having their application sent to the committee, yet Fishbein stressed this will most likely reflect badly in their recommendation
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Read the full article from the JHU Newsletter at </p>
<p>I curious whether you have any evidence to support your statement that most JHU freshman premeds do not end up going to med school. Last time I checked--about 1/3 of any incoming freshman class consider themselves premed. By senior year, this dwindles down to about 1/4 of the class. This hardly seems like "most" to me. And I seriously doubt that this premed attrition rate is much different than UCSD or any other school I can think of.</p>
<p>Anyone interested should read the entire article linked by Afan--not just the quoted excerpts. On the whole--the article paints a postive picture of JHU's premedical advising.</p>
<p>I anecdotally know 3 JHU pre-meds who dropped it. My roommates went to Hopkins and they said they would never recommend JHU for pre-meds. Unless a student is at the top of his class JHU, will cause more intimidation than anything else.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The academic intensity breeds what many students call "throats," students who resort to cutthroat methods, such as stealing required reading materials from The Milton S. Eisenhower Library to gain an advantage over their classmates.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Roughly 30 percent of entering freshmen are classified as premed. That number dwindles, however, after they encounter courses like "Physiological Foundations," which was rated one of the hardest classes in the nation in 2001.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Can you name ANY school that sends a higher percentage of its class to med school than JHU? I know of none. Yes--being a premed at Hopkins is difficult. It is designed to be difficult. The practice of medicine (if done correctly) is difficult. If you are not prepared to work hard--you should look for another profession. But please don't give people the misimpression that doing well as a premed at Hopkins is impossible or requires superhuman effort. That's simply not true. If you are reasonably bright (and, frankly, if you are admitted to JHU--you qualify if that regard) and put in the required effort--you will get through and will be accepted to med school. Generally, the students who have problems (and I am not counting those who switch from premed to something else because they find other areas which they like better--that happens everywhere) are those who think they can get by without working hard because they are smart. That approach does not work at Hopkins and, honestly, those people are better off not going to medical school. If they do, they will probably hate practicing medicine. If you doubt this--ask any medical resident what his or her working hours are like.</p>
<p>But JHU has a tendency to weed out its candidates so many don't apply boosting JHU's stats (which aren't much better than the Ivies). Happened to a friend from high school.</p>
<p>You have NO evidence that JHU "weeds out" candidates in order to "boost" its statistics. That's nothing more than an unfounded conspiracy theory. I do agree that JHU--like many other top colleges--intentionally makes required premed courses difficult in order to weed out those who are unwilling to work hard. This has nothing to do with boosting statistics--and everything to do with ensuring that those who go to medical school are prepared for the rigors of medical school (hours of memorizing tons of minutia), training, and practice. It takes more than being smart to be a good doctor (or good medical scientist). There is significant premed attrition everywhere that I know of, and I've yet to see any evidence (such as statistics--not mere anecdotes) that the premed attrition rate is higher at Hopkins than its peer institutions. Everything that I've seen suggests that its not--but if you have real evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested in seeing it.</p>
<p>Bluebayou--the Sun article you linked to is correct about the percentage of freshmen who are premed but, otherwise, the reporter did a pretty poor job. "Physiological Foundations" may indeed be one of the hardest courses in the nation--but it is not a required course for medical schools and is not taken by most premeds at Hopkins. It is a BME course.</p>
<p>bonanza:</p>
<p>beside the rigor of the college, which at The Hop is about as rigorous as can be, also check out student satisfaction. Research the alumni news a few years back. Hopkins' own survey indicated that more than 50% of entering frosh were not expecting to have a good time in college. [Yikes, more than 50% planning on NOT being happy?] And, that's before the students ever set foot on the Homewood campus.</p>
<p>btw: yes, I have heard schools with a 90% med acceptance rate, but then that college just refuses to support all kids that want to apply. Without knowing the denominator, grad school accpetance rates is about as meaningless a statistic as you'll see in education.</p>