Interesting. It seems like the state has set a platform for competition between the schools for state resources. That’s not a bad thing. Can be confusing for the future applicants. Which is better for what vs. establishing a flagship that is known to be better across the board. But competition is a good thing. I have severaal USF professor friends (across multiple disciplines) who readily agree that UF is the best school in the state. Have heard them tell college applicants not to buy in to the propaganda that others are just as good in business or engineering. Maybe that’s changing or will in the future. A way for the school to maintain it’s dominance and appeal to a broader national audience (i.e become a national flagship like UVA, UB, UM) would be to eliminate the hybrid admissions programs. Clearly identify you are a home for only top students. Not sure they want to do that as they likely need the revenue from the hybrids to operate. That’s the downside of low tuition. Upside is access to more students which is good for society.
@rickle1 It is indeed an interesting evolution happening at UF. But I believe that UF is already on the path to becoming a national flagship. At this moment, I can’t advocate for getting rid of the hybrids because my daughter was just acceped into one and she’s excited to become a Gator, even if it is a non-traditional pathway.
I kind of look at the hybrids (Pace, IA, GE@SF, etc.) like a baseball farm system. You didn’t get drafted into the big leagues of traditional admission, but UF sees potential for you and wants to give you a way to nurture that talent. They also know that a certain percentage of kids will “wash out” or decide to transfer out of the “big leagues.”
Why play triple A or Double A for UF when you can be a big leaguer (and even on scholarship) at USF, FSU, UCF? That’s up to the kid. My kid wants to be a Gator even if she is hybrid for a little while. (That’s the power of the power of the brand and a different discussion.)
One thing I have noticed is that our biases as adults greatly impact us. We have already been to college. We remember our experience and want our kids to have that same experience. However, just as my experience was new to me and different from that of my parents, my daughter’s will be new to her and different from mine. Who am I to put my conditions of a “normal” college experience into play?
Back to the flagship status, at 36%, UF is closing the gap on UVA, UNC and UofMich. I think it is already clearly a home for top students as an only a small fraction of kids at my daughter’s school go in. Many smart kids didn’t even attempt to apply and one friend of our’s hadn’t even checked his admission status as of yesterday afternoon.
Go Gators.
That fourth paragraph from Gatordad305 should be required reading for every parent. As parents we tend to project our experiences, goals etc onto our children with regard to how they should experience life. But they are different people with different expectations …let them make their choices as individuals …with no judgement from us. Will they mistakes? Boy will they ever…but so did we…and ultimately that is how you learn in life…making decisions, realizing the consequences and learning from the experience.
@GatorDad305 , I wouldn’t say I disagree with you, just have a different take on it (there is a difference as disagreeing implies I think you’re wrong, and in reality, I don’t. I just have a different perspective. I don’t think there is a right or wrong in these areas.) You’ll probably view my perspective as quite narrow and that’s fine.
For clarity, my perspective is based on the following:
I think the college experience, especially the first 2 yrs, is critical to the growth of the student. Not just academically, but as a person. This is when they start forming (and testing)\ their own opinions, decide what’s important to them, breakaway from high school “groupthink”, and discover new things about themselves. To me, being immersed in the campus environment, live classes, dining hall, variety of clubs different than your hall mates, etc. is very important in fostering that growth. Yes I’m sure you CAN accomplish some of that (you can’t accomplish all of it with restrictions on living arrangements and classes) with the hybrids. It seems to me that many are so desirous of the brand (i.e.Gator), they’re willing to forfeit the traditional and full experience elsewhere. I think it’s important they live on campus with a “random” roommate and have to deal with an RA, join a dorm intramural sports team, attend hall parties and events. If I were them, I would prefer the full immersion somewhere else then the hybrid version. That’s just me.
An anecdote - had dinner with some friends last night. One of the parents is a lifelong Gator, met his wife there, have raised “little Gators”, still attend football games, etc. His D got rejected (not even offered PaCE - I think because she applied as a nursing major and I don’t think you can do that with PaCE). He went on and on about how he is going to appeal and see if he can at least get her in to PaCE. Said she would be willing to do a different major if it meant going to UF. I left thinking, how sad. Yes I know kids change their majors all the time but at least give it a shot if that’s really what you want to do (for now). He went on explaining if not PaCE, they would do the Santa Fe CC path. She would live with a cousin off campus somewhere in the area. And in 2 yrs, become a Gator. Seems more like being a junior transfer student which I’m sure will feel quite different than the Gator experience she’s looking for.
To each hs/her own.
Regarding “national flagship”, I think UF is quite far from joining the ranks of the UVAs of the world. It’s not just admission rates, it’s the actual resources, environment, quality of teaching, national major firm recruiting ( they do fine but MBB, BB IBs, IBM -GE live on campus at UVA and recruit MANY MANY kids every year), etc. UF is fine. However, the UVAs of the world have held their top spots for literally 30 to 40 years. You don’t go to UVA and have to take many freshman / sophomore classes online (actually I don’t think you take any unless you want to if that’s even an option). You don’t have a business student taking weed out accounting classes on line with a TA lab (no prof available other than in extremely overcrowded office hours). You don’t have a ton of kids relying on 3rd party “cliff note” and tutoring programs because it’s easier then attending classes (a very clever business but it exists because there’s a big demand for it- which I think is sad). Those elite flagships are just better, in my opinion. That’s OK. There has to be a “better”. They can’t all be the same. If UF wants to join that group in the future, it needs to really address resources (heard they were looking to hire 300 professors in order to reduce class size. Hopefully they’ll be leaders in their field and not just bodies). I think it would also benefit from defining who it wants as a student and sticking to that (eliminating hybrids).
Obviously they and you will disagree and that’s fine.
@rickle1 I think we have a different perspective on transfer students (and the “hybrids”). A bit less than 30% of the undergraduate students, admitted to UF each year, are transfer students. Back when I attended UF, that percentage was much higher. A lot of the Alumni are transfer students, or had friends that were transfer students. In fact, my freshman year, I wanted to live off campus with some friends how were transfer students, but my parents nixed the idea and made me stay in a dorm (boo!).
For a lot of Gator Alumni, having their children transfer into UF (or enrolling in PaCE)seems like a perfectly normal option, maybe not the best option, but an option.
On the “hybrids”. Don’t think of these as a $ grab. The tuition revenue is good, but these are really options to manage UF’s enrollment. PaCE allows UF to increase UF Online enrollment (which the legislature wants to see), while IA helps to increase summer enrollment. Both (and this is important) allow UF to keep Fall freshman enrollment numbers down. In fact, last UF reduced enrollment to 6,500 and this year’s target is 6,400 (based on UF’s prediction of yield).
UF wants to limit freshman enrollment due to resource limitations, as you mentioned above. Without IA or PaCE, they likely would be forced to increase enrollment from it’s current target of 6,400 up to 7,100+.
UF has plenty of capacity at the upper class (Junior/senior) level in the 60 PaCE majors. PaCE helps fill that capacity. In fact, I think that’s a major weakness of PaCE. It’s being used to populate major areas of study that have been under-enrolled in recent years. I would like to see them increase the range of majors being offered. Offering majors like Finance, or Accounting would make the program far more popular. Switch the focus to what students want…
This article only touches on what UF is trying to do. It not only wants to grow faculty (to lower the student to faculty ratio), but it wants more prominent faculty (as measured by Faculty Membership in National Academies, and faculty awards). It also wants to increase R&D spending, which influences who it hires as faculty.
What schools does UF have to pass to reach the top 5? Looking at US News (may as well use them as the example),
UF is currently tied at #9 with UC-San Diego and UC-Irvine. At #8 is UC-Santa Barbara. #7 is Georgia Tech, and #6 is the College of William and Mary. #5 is UNC. Over the next several years, could UF move pass the UC’s, GT and up to a tie with UNC? Sure! I trust California to mess things up with the UCs, and we have some structural advantages over GT. If we continue to get funded by the sate, we should threaten to move up closer to 5 over the next several years.
^^^very good post
@rickle1 Honestly, I don’t think your thinking is narrow at all. I respect your opinion and you make a lot of sense. I appreciate you sharing.
One more little point on PaCE. We talked about it last night and my daughter said she could never do it because she doesn’t think she is disciplined enough. She was not offered it, though, so we will never know what her choice would have been. (invited to GE@SF.)
Many kids who were offered PaCE seem to feel like it is an insult. “Why would I take UF classes online when I can be a regular freshman at FSU?” And I, for one, completely agree.
Yet for me, as a parent whose daughter was totally on the bubble at UF, this past year has been all about options. I wanted my daughter to have choices. In fact I wanted her to have difficult choices. As a UF alum, I certainly hoped she would get in, but like so many other alums my age, comparing my UF to the current UF is ridiculous. I would not have even applied to “today’s” UF back when I as high school. I wanted my daughter to have options that she would feel good about. Had she missed the mark with UF, she would be getting excited about UCF right now.
All in all, I think it is a healthy argument.
thank you, was wondering how Summer B worked or how my son got Summer B, I don’t know his UF GPA but his unweighted school GPA is 3.61 and SAT is 1370, he also got in to FSU and he preferred UF over FSU but didn’t have his heart set on either school, as he put it just want to go to college
@Gator88NE Thanks for that insight! We misheard about Summer A…this student was actually admitted to Summer B, but he is class Valedictorian with lots of leadership and EC’s so we were hesitant to think that Summer B admits were not as strong as Fall admits. I think Summer B is actually a blessing for a freshman…get up there and get acclimated before the masses arrive! 
I don’t think they accept freshmen into Summer A because many are still in hs when that session starts.
A friend’s daughter chose Summer B at FSU when she graduated because she just wanted to get to school and start. She’d been there 6+ weeks when sorority rush started, and she enjoyed feeling established.
@Katvis Your son is in the enviable position of making a choice. If he hasn’t visited the schools, then he should. In my experience, he will probably know right away. Summer B at UF is a great way to start your college experience. Campus is quieter and most kids only take two classes over the six weeks.
We live in Gainesville now, and my impression of Summer B is that it’s fun! Summers in Gainesville are hot but you get some summer hours out of the way early (state requires a certain amount) and you get a sneak preview of campus, getting around, etc.
Agree with @MYOS1634, especially having family in other states. This is something I appreciated about Florida very much when my son was homeschooling in high school.
@SouthFloridaMom9 My only issue with the quote is the “other southern states” part. Anyone from FL (or a Southern State) will point out that FL is NOT a Southern State!
Only disadvantage to Summer B? Your summer is shorter. There are several advantages, as others have mentioned.
Good point @shortnuke. 
@GatorDad305, his sisters attend FSU and he has seen the campus, no official tour has happened at FSU, he has toured UF and really liked the campus - his sisters want him at FSU but I think UF and summer B will be fine, he just won’t be able to work as a life guard all summer and make some money to support his gaming habit but that might be a good thing!
@SouthFloridaMom9, Gainesville cannot be hotter than Miami in the summer
@Ella582 I’m by no means an expert but my son is like your friends and is awaiting the college decision of whether to accept him. He was not admitted as a freshman and one theory I have is that it may have depended on what major you chose and how many spots the admissions department was given by that college they could fill. My son’s major is computer science which is considered competitive major. He probably didn’t have the grades or SAT score to cut it. 1370 SAT and GPA 4.0 weighted.
@22mom , that’s really interesting. I’m a Biology major wanting to follow a Pre-Med track. From what I know about UF, most of the Sciences like Biomedical and Biology are pretty competitive as UF is well known for being strong in those programs. I had a 1500 SAT with a 4.8 weighted so your theory may or may not be right. I had a friend who was a NMSF and had a 1560 SAT get rejected so anything could have been a reason. I hope your son gets admitted if UF is where he wants to be. Good luck!