UMass Amherst 2024 EA: High-Stats AND In-State AND Denied/Waitlisted

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Massachusetts - Amherst
61

It’s so painful when your kid doesn’t get in - and so much moreso when it doesn’t seem fair. My kid also got a ‘no’ for a well-liked school recently.

I just think the larger issue for our kids is that in life you will have to deal effectively with a lot of things that are not fair. People will be promoted who seem unqualified. Managers will make seemingly illogical decisions that impact their staff negatively. People will be let go who seem not to deserve it. Friends will walk away when they are needed.

Kids have to learn to respond in ways that help them. Does that include examining the system? Sometimes - and often there is a systematic issue. Does it also include a certain amount of acceptance of the ‘unfairness’ of it all and strategizing a response that is best for the individual? Yes.

I’ve seen people at work be angry and bitter at unfairness to the extent it completely undercuts their own advancement and they are perceived quite negatively. Others stay calm, make the best of it all, and ultimately move ahead successfully. We can model responses to set-backs that show our kids a path they can take to help them in many other tough situations they will face.

Of course, not at all easy 'cause we love them and want the best for them!!

Not sure if this helps in any way. Please feel free to disregard if it doesn’t.

62

People are totally missing the point. Umass is a state school. Talking about kids not getting into MIT and holistic admissions is just not the same as qualified instate applicants at a state school.

And please, stop with the “there must be something wrong with swampyankee’s son or his application. From what I’ve seen (out in the real world, not on cc) the umass admissions are a mess for instate kids. It IS actually possible that the system is broken guys.

63

I seem to recall reading UIUC had similar complaints a few years back. Parents complained to their representatives in the state Congress. The reps were somewhat responsive and things changed for a time. However, reading through the UIUC threads and seeing all the highly qualified (perfect & near perfect stats) in-state students who got rejected or deferred, I would not be surprised to see similar complaints maybe start to grow once again. A couple years ago UIUC even took out an insurance policy against loosing international students if visas became too restrictive under the Trump presidency. That right there tells what a cash cow full pay international admissions is for them.

64

“Won’t share your child’s other admission data”

The only school (other than UMassA) to which he has applied and been denied was a Top 10 private school with an 8% acceptance rate. This school was his ED longshot.

He has been accepted to four top 50 schools with merit scholarships (all :smile: “President”, top, Level) for all, ranging 15-30k. All are great options, and I suspect additional March RD acceptances may follow.

I have shared his “stats”. So other than providing you a sample of blood and his social security number, I believe I have provided sufficient information on “other admission data”.

Despite all the data I have provided, which highlights the dubious admission policies and trends for IS students applying to CICS, you continue to assert my child is not “UmassA worthy”. Again, you are blaming the victim, and obscuring the crime.

Please answer the very simple question, should 50% of CICS seats be offered to OOS students. This is clearly being done to raise revenue, but to what end. In this regard, UMassA is acting more like a private school than a publicly funded school.

Unlike you, I believe this is wrong and should be changed. Unlike you, I feel for qualified IS students who are victims of this misguided, self-interested, policy. And, unlike you, I am focused on bigger picture here, not my son’s case.

65

@swampyankee - “top 50” admission/scholarship does not in any way speak to the strength of one’s holistic application, particularly because many of those schools are much more stat-driven in decisions.

You don’t have to tell anyone anything about your child, but on CC, the understanding is that more data is helpful to assess one’s claims. From what I can see, you joined, and participate, specifically to complain about this one angle of college admissions.

I’m satisfied with the bigger picture that U-MA is picking the students that they feel will best make a good community in addition to having good academic credentials. U-MA Amherst can no longer be used as a “safety school,” and this is true of many high-quality flagship state universities.

That said, I personally know many students with high stats from local in-state schools who got into U-MA Amherst this season. There just hasn’t been any kind of groundswell of complaints or issues.

I would (and do) vote for better funding for public education (including higher education) - but barring that, I think that full-pay OOS/international students may have to have an important role in supporting our local programs.

Students who come across as entitled or antagonistic or even disinterested in a U-MA education per se - are not going to have as good a chance at getting in under holistic admission. I don’t know that your child’s application had negative attributes, but your posts certainly don’t exemplify a humble, curious approach.

66

@fretfulmother
You did not answer @swampyankee’s question

should 50% of CICS seats be offered to OOS students.

If OOS students play a role in the UMass Budget - should one major be singled out to carry that burden way out of proportion to other depts?

67

Sure, I think that’s up to U-MA. If that’s where they see qualified kids applying. As I said, I see tons of local kids getting in, and don’t see an issue. Even swampyankee’s kid didn’t get rejected, I believe, just deferred.

68

Is there an upper limit in % OOS you are comfortable with? 60%, 75% 90%?
I mean if “tons of kids are getting in” it doesn’t it matter that local Kids are being shut out of a popular major, right?
Would you be ok if all the competitive majors went in the same direction? Nursing, business, engineering?

69

Can someone link to the data that show admitted and/or enrolled numbers for CICS, broken out by instate vs oos?

I only see the total admitted/enrolled numbers (by in vs out of state) at this report ‘Selected Undergraduate Admissions and Enrollment Statistics Fall 2010-2019’, on this page: https://www.umass.edu/oir/factsheets

Thanks!

70

Since you insist on being so personal, perhaps you might share some additional and personal information:

Did your children apply to UMass?

How many?

For which entry classes?

For what majors?

ACT/SAT scores?

GPA, UW/W?

AP classes for which they scored 4 or higher?

Colleges or major to which your student applied?

Colleges which rejected your student’s application?

Your assessment of why your student’s were denied.

Colleges which accepted your student’s application?

Holistic merits to your student’s application. Gender, geography, personal story, special talents, jock, etc.?

Where you live, IS OOS, Int.

Who you voted for in last MA Govenor’s race.

What subject you teach?

What college you attended?

71

No problem:

Yes
Two
2016, 2020
Engineering
35, 36 respectively
3.9, 4.0 respectively (UW)
all the histories, all the sciences, CS, English (one son, other didn’t take), Latin, BC, Stats
H,Y, Mich (DS16) and S (DS20) and both: P,M, Pitt, UMD, UMA-A
So far, all accepted. Only outstanding apps are M,S for DS20
Male, nonjock, nerdly and artistic pursuits
MA
the one running against Baker
STEM
MIT

…and FYI all of that is easily readable in my post history on CC except the governor vote, which I think is infer-able.

And now that I’ve called your bluff, which “top-50” colleges are we talking about for your kid?

72

Hi. I just signed up for an account so I could comment here. I’ve read/looked at the cc website for years, but never bothered to sign up.

Fretfulmother, there are many, many in-state Computer Science applicants that were given the unusual “waitlist” at early action for UMass this year. We just don’t all have accounts or are even looking at cc. Yes, tons of kids have gotten into UMass this year in high schools across the state. This is an issue specifically with the Computer Science college. Like Swampyankee’s kid, mine has also gotten into several schools with top merit, honors programs, some other special programs. This is being discussed elsewhere, too. Kids getting into Mich & Cornell (kid’s Waitlist came before his app. withdrawal for ED) and ‘waitlist/rejected’ at Umass. Not even given the option of the 2nd choice major/college.

Fretfulmother said “That said, I personally know many students with high stats from local in-state schools who got into U-MA Amherst this season. There just hasn’t been any kind of groundswell of complaints or issues.”

This is only applicable if they were all Computer Science applicants. And none of the students I know that this affected have talked about it at their schools. In my experience, kids keep it to themselves at school. So just because you haven’t heard it doesn’t mean it’s not real.

Out of State/International students are currently being accepted in RD with lower stats, etc. The school overenrolled the last few years and are overcorrecting. They are accepting lesser quality students from outside of MA for the revenue. It is actually a fact that was confirmed to me by someone who is very important at the school (I know I am vague, I just really do not want to disclose.) I have shared this whole discussion with this person who was meeting with the chancellor last weekend.

This is a real issue and not just a matter of ‘holistic’ review. Every time you say that, it bothers me because that is not what’s going on here. It stings as it feels like a thinly veiled dig just to be antagonistic. I’m not sure why you keep coming back onto this discussion since apparently it does not affect you or any of the tons of kids at your school. We are talking about Computer Science applicants, not engineering, or any of the other schools. We are talking about admissions at a public state school. If it were a private institution, this whole discussion wouldn’t be applicable. Nor would it be if these kids got a deferral and put in the pool with the RD kids.

Fretfulmother said “Students who come across as entitled or antagonistic or even disinterested in a U-MA education per se - are not going to have as good a chance at getting in under holistic admission. I don’t know that your child’s application had negative attributes, but your posts certainly don’t exemplify a humble, curious approach.”

This above comment is what stings. While my older son chose Cornell’s college of engineering for computer science (and was accepted to just as impressive of a list as your kids), my younger son was insistent on attending our state’s public school, Umass/Amherst–he’s a level headed kid, said it is the best CS education for the price. He wanted to stay on beyond the 4 years. It really was his first choice. He only applied to the other schools as a back-up (we insisted.) His back-ups are typically others’ first choices.

73

How many incoming freshman generally enroll in the UMass Computer Science program?

74

@just4this
“I’m not sure why you keep coming back onto this discussion since apparently it does not affect you or any of the tons of kids at your school. We are talking about Computer Science applicants, not engineering, or any of the other schools. We are talking about admissions at a public state school. If it were a private institution, this whole discussion wouldn’t be applicable. Nor would it be if these kids got a deferral and put in the pool with the RD kids.”

I’m entitled to participate in any thread of interest. I live in MA and this is of interest to me. I happen to disagree with you about content, but I’m no less welcome on the thread than you are.

I gather that the kids of the complaining parents did get a deferral in the sense that they are not rejected outright.

On this kind of thread (the “why did a lower stats kid with what I deem worse credentials get in” kind of thread) - parents often say, “I wouldn’t say this if it were another school, but xyz reason compels it here”.

Apparently, the OOS/International students getting into CS are what U-MA wants to admit. And, U-MA is more competitive for admissions in new ways now. There’s not much more to it than that.

I think it’s as simple as this: MA joins other states (MI, WI, IL, CA, VA, GA, probably more but this is a quick list) - whose flagships are not to be considered “safety schools” for any student.

We certainly didn’t consider U-MA a safety school; we chose a rolling admissions “likely” school and would have chosen more if that hadn’t come back a couple weeks later with an acceptance. I’m aware enough of the college application environment to know that brilliant kids with lots of things going for them, still get denied and have to pay a lot of attention to fit and matching with likely schools.

I’ve advised a lot of students and am raising three children - the simplest explanation is: there is a college for (almost) everyone, and there’s a safety for (almost) no-one.

(Granted, there are many guaranteed-admission colleges, but I didn’t mean those here.)

75

@justforthis thank you for sharing this thread with your contact at UMass.

@fretfulmother I think there are valid questions about CS major to be explored.
Can you concede that?

76

There are 437 public high schools and 204 private high schools in Massachusetts.

UMass Amherst states on their CICS page that there are 850 active undergraduates enrolled in the college. That likely means there are 200-220 students enrolled per class.

Perhaps UMass simply has a policy of admitting no more than one CS student per Massachusetts high school in the EA round.

77

Fretfulmother, of course you have every right to participate on this and any thread.
It just feels like you are purposely trying to poke or antagonize in a sort of condescending way with comments implying something negative about a student’s application and/or perhaps they came across entitled, ‘complaining parents’ and seemingly ignoring the actual crutch of the problem being discussed–that there is something going on with admissions in CS only that leaves questions for many of us.

The reason why one would mention OOS/Int students info and pointing out that this is a public state school is exactly the opposite of the implication of ‘complaining parents’ who think their kid is better than another student or school. It’s to point out that there is a discrepancy with the admission process specifically in Computer Science at a public school. As a public school, there are different rules to follow than a private school.

Many years ago, because of the small, competitive nursing program at Umass, they changed the admission process to be that you could only apply to Nursing–no 2nd choice major or exploratory track–and you’re either accepted or rejected.
It seems like maybe CS is heading that way and then they could be upfront about it with clear expectations for future years.

78

@swampyankee

I would just like to thank you for starting this and corroborate a lot of what you have been saying, and find out how we as a group can make sure the media is aware of what is going on?

-First of all I am not just talking about my kid but several from his school and neighboring high schools

-High stats kids, also with amazing ECs, turned down or waitlisted not only from CS but the school as a whole

-Kids getting into top 25 schools (including my son) yet waitlisted from UMass with no chance of getting off waitlist into competitive major

-Son indicated it was his first choice so not a question of yield

-Kids international and OOS getting in with lower stats and often scholarships

-My son applied to CS, understandably competitive, but how is it that he didn’t even get into UMass for his second choice non competitive major ?

My son is all set for next year but I do think that the UMass system is broken and I would like to help get to the bottom of the issue so that it can be fixed for future classes!

79

No need to thank me. Thank you! I am so pleased that there are people willing to question government when such acute violations of trust and sensibility occur.

…and can engage in civil, fact-based discussions, without personalizing the discussion.

80

@swampyankee
My kid was accepted to UConn (OOS with $80k scholarship) but not UMass (in state) for CICS.

Any idea which is considered more competitive?