@swampyankee Is it possible to get a copy of your whole list?It is really sad that some of our in-state students are treated so poorly.
I can understand why International students may have lower stats (eg English not their first language, different grading/courses). I can also also understand why OOS student have slightly lower stats. But I just fail to see any justifications to deny well qualified in-state students. If UMass think these students are too good for them, perhaps they should say so in their rejection letter.
Of all the worries an applicant may have, being “too good” is certainly not one!
To be fair, stats alone do not make an applicant “well qualified”.
Exactly.
We don’t know the classes an applicant tookor their rigor, quality of LoRs, essays, ECs and whether or not they need FA. All can be important factors in admissions decisions.
What I don’t think public colleges should do is deny or waitlist high stat in-state students for yield management reasons, by assuming that these students will matriculate elsewhere even if accepted. Private schools doing that, sure, but publics? Hard to support that.
Although I don’t know for sure whether UMass does practice yield mgmt by denying some high stats in-state students.
It seems to me, in my observations as a HS teacher for 20+ years and as a parent, that UMass does NOT do yield management (rejecting “better” kids). All my smartie-pants kids who are going to HYPSM, also got into UMass. A rep told us (and the students) that for one’s OWN state, using the state school as a safety is expected. And then some yield is expected, because things don’t always work out the way a kid expects, whether in admissions, finances, personal situation (location), etc.
@Mwfan1921 @momzilla2D so on one hand, our businesses say we don’t have enough qualified workers to fill the 6 figures jobs. on the other hand, our colleges says high stats don’t mean anything to get into STEM majors. nice!
The limiting factor with some majors, including CS, is supply of professors. There just aren’t enough…I am sure many schools would like to expand (in term of number of students) some STEM majors but can’t if they can’t find enough profs (tenure track or not), or adjuncts.
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No one said “high stats don’t mean anything”. We said “high stats don’t mean everything”.
My specific quote…
When you add international students your global cs brand grows as well. The student’s degree is more valuable, research grants grow, alumni are more satisfied and employers even more engaged. Rankings improve.
The purpose of the university is not exclusively as a public education for Massachusetts residents. It’s important and the vast majority of students are instate.
@Mwfan1921 @momzilla2D Did you know how those H1B students who took the 6 figure jobs got into grad school in the US? I bet they probably had high stats back in their home countries!
Not sure I understand…Are you saying UMass Amherst shouldn’t accept international students? In CS? In any subject?
Yeah, I also don’t know what you’re getting at here. But I will say that I have hired highly educated people into professional jobs, and again, stats are not everything. We would never hire a candidate simply because they had the highest stats.
The few examples of high stats students given early in this thread had weighted HS GPA of 4.2 or 4.5 or such.
https://www.mass.edu/forstufam/admissions/gpacalc.asp gives what is apparently the Massachusetts public university standard for recalculating HS GPA. It looks like “honors” gives +0.5 and AP gives +1.0.
Were the example HS GPAs calculated by the Massachusetts public university standard? What were the unweighted HS GPAs?
One of the unfortunate things about weighted HS GPAs is that they can mislead students and parents into thinking that their HS GPAs are more competitive than they actually are. And if the high school uses a weighting system with heavier weights, that can mislead even more.
https://www.umass.edu/admissions/facts-and-figures/student-body-and-admissions-statistics says that entering frosh for fall 2019 had an average HS GPA of 3.90 and middle 50% of 3.70 to 4.20 (as calculated by the Massachusetts public university standard). However, https://www.umass.edu/oir/sites/default/files/publications/admissions_enrollment_reports/fall19.pdf says that the College of Information and Computer Sciences average HS GPA was 4.15 for those admitted to majors (CS or informatics).
I’m a little late in responding here and haven’t read all the replies, but if you really want UMass Amherst, you really do have to apply EA and do the optional question. Also, it depends on what town you live in. In some towns in metro west Boston, almost half of the senior class will apply to UMass Amherst. UMass Amherst can accept only so many students from each high school to be fair to all regions of the state. So, it may have just came down to how many kids they were willing to accept from your high school. There were likely other kids in your school/class with better stats or demonstrated clearer interest in the school. As an out of state resident/paying out of state tuition, you have an advantage at other state schools.
[quote="if you really want UMass Amherst, you really do have to apply EA
[/quote]
It’s important and the vast majority of students are instate.
[/quote]
The enrollment of in-state students in the CICS college is NOT a vast majority, it is barely 50%. In ALL other colleges at UMassA is > 70% in-state.
There is clearly something in the “strategy” which has driven UMassA" to seek highly qualified (even if not best qualified) international students for CICS admission.
First, they are full-pay. 'nough said.
Second, international students are far more likely to stay and attend graduate school (get PhD). More international undergrad student= more intl grad students= more grads students, overall = more research = improved peer cogognition=pretige=improved rankings = more qualified Int undergrad applications (rinse, repeat, rankings)
I get it. This cycle serves to improve UMassA’s reputation/pretige by having a “top 11” CS AI grad school specialty, “top 20” overall CS. This serves the interests of many, just not the interests of a smart kid from MA who wants to get a great-value CS at UMassA.
IMO, UMassA should cap non-MA admission at 25% (for every college including CICS) and serve the children of MA taxpayers first and foremost.
S opted for Northeastern CS program. Very tough final decision for him; between NeU, URochester, and UMassA.
After all that, your son turned down UMA? Smh.
My son turned down UMA too. We don’t qualify for financial aid so its not a super bargain for us. People need to remember that the CS ranking is for the graduate program. For undergrad, there are lots more factors to considering than just ranking.
What’s your point @fretfulmother? What’s you real purpose in chiding me for providing transparency?
“All that”, was about challenging, with facts and data, the uniquely troubling admission statistics in the CS College. [Not true in UMA Engineering, Business, Nursing, or other colleges].
My guess is there is nothing I could have said that would have had you agree with me regarding UMass CS admissions practices, but res ispa loquitur.
“Your son turned down UMA, smh (shaking my head)”. Regarding my son, he made a decision which is right for him and I am very proud of him. You have wrongly assumed that my comments, data, and analysis in this and 2024 EA UMassA was about him gaining acceptance despite, what you have repeatedly alleged, was weak “holistic” application. He will be attending his first choice school, why does this confuse a person as brilliant as you so much?
UMassA has a solid and terrific value (to in-state students) CS College, I would been delighted to have him attend, despite the way I feel about the CS College admission practices.
I hope, is some way, my “all that” helps a higher percentage of well-qualified, in-state, CS applicants gain acceptance without someone else’s “all that” being necessary.
With all due respect @swampyankee. I’m shaking my head right along with @fretfulmother. You hijacked the original UMass acceptance thread when your son didn’t get in originally, creating a pretty negative vibe for a moment over there. There are acceptance threads all over this site for hundreds of schools, and most don’t splinter off into separate corresponding angry threads for people to rail about how unfair it all is when they or their kids don’t get accepted.
Several other kids and parents on that thread reported not getting in, but presumably moved on and processed their feelings elsewhere.
However, you created such a fuss about it that you started this thread to continue to publicly rail against the injustice of it all, and your tone has been consistently heightened. That level of intensity sort of implied that it was a school your S wanted to go to. So yes, “after all that” it’s quite surprising that he’s not going.
All of that said, maybe now you can move past it. It sounds like your S is a bright kid who ended up with several great options. I wish him the best.