@CTCape So, I count you as someone who feels that accepting and enrolling more than 50% out-of-state/INTL students in CS College a laudable practice and a desirable outcome…
while there is no shortage of very talented MA applicants. [Currently, all other colleges at UMassA are less than 28% OOS/Int.]
I asked the head of Admissions, if there is any cap (60%, 70%, 90%) he would be willing to consider for OOS/Int CS enrollment… I recieved no reply. I take that as a “no”.
I came to the original 2024 UMass EA thread as a curious nube, but quickly saw the pattern in CS that I chose to explore further, not to gain acceptance for my son, but because my curiosity compelled me. A Moderator encouraged me to start this thread, which I did. If shining a light on what I consider misguided policy creates a “negative vibe”, so be it. No regrets here.
Remember, what is happening within CS today will most likely happen to other colleges (eng and biz) in years to come.
I will have no future UMassA applicants, but I would encourage parents of future in-state CS applicants, and/or any concerned MA resident to write your state senator and representative to challenge the growing and unlimited OOS/INTL enrollment. If funding is the reason for skewed enrollment, only they can fix it. If “prestige” is the driver for skewed enrollment, they should be required to explain it to taxpayers [and qualified/rejected students and their parents].
Maybe the Pioneer Institute can advance the story??
Last, thank you @CTCape for your warm wishes for my son.
I think the university is doing a fantastic job in so many ways.
I’m very comfortable with their approach to the new facilities, high rankings, research, and the highly sought out majors being extremely competitive and widely recruited.
We have no expectations that the football team have a certain number instate. They can recruit for a major like CS globally and it only improves the brand and desirability instate by students. It is also important for employers for thousands of students.
Your analogy to football is great. Unfortunately, many in-state students ran faster, jumped higher, and scored more TDs, but they were still not picked (for reasons completely unrelated to merit).
So, it is not a meritocracy, there is a bias for out of state and Int CS students irrespective of the UMassA funding coming from MA taxpayers. As stated earlier, if UMassA were private their charter could and all law would support them doing whatever the heck they wish.
Some schools like UVM can not attract enough qualified in-state applicants, so they go the OOS/Int route. It is quite a different situation at UMass for CS, and many other majors.
What is so wrong with accepting qualified students who do not need a student visa to attend, but whose parents have funded the institution for decades?
I absolutely agree that UMassA is a very good college, but your have to admit they may be trying too hard to be elite (top 20 public) … any any cost and with any consequence.
I am a “good process” leads to “good outcomes” person. I clearly think UMassA has a flawed process but a very solid CS program. That said, I am very happy with my son’s choice to enroll at NU’s Khoury College for CS.
It will cost a good bit more than UMassA, but at NU he will be joining a college that showed great interest in him as a person and as a student and prospective alum; not an outcast of a BS process that later changed its mind when INT students were bailing.
As a person who attended NU for UG and Grad school, I understsnd what NU will will do to help him succeed in life.
Couldn’t be happier for him. Just not sure what UMassA’s mission is any more…
Haven’t been back in a while because it still kind of hurts.
Son got accepted RD at Cornell (engineering school) and Colby College as a Presidential Research Scholar. But never got off the waitlist for Umass Amherst, which was his first choice. As stated prior, he applied EA for CS. Did not get option of second choice major. He was dedicated to attending a public university over private so he chose UVM–in the Honors College & engineering school for computer science.
Interestingly enough, both Cornell & Colby would have cost us less than UMA with their very generous Financial Aid & 2nd kid in college. Unfortunately, even with the highest Presidential merit scholarship awarded(20k/year), UVM will cost more than the others.
My contacts at UMA are very well known & integral to the running of the university. When notified of my son’s position on waitlist, they were going to admit him as he’s more than qualified. As simple as a phone call. These conversations were when @swampyankee’s information was confirmed by decision makers at UMA. My son declined the assistance as he felt it was wrong & would make him feel badly. This was before his acceptance to the two elite schools.
@swampyankee thank you for your research and insight. You showed me that you cared about the impact of UMA’s actions were for all students & not just your own. I appreciate that. Good luck to you and your son!
See comment #153. I only found it after I read your original entry. This is a common error which just adds to the confusion.
General rule 1: Weighted GPA is, most likely, not the GPA metric used in the UMass data. Unweighted GPA is used as weighted systems vary widely from secondary school to secondary school. Look at your students unweighted GPA or you are entering a different metric. Note that the scatter plot stops at 4.0. Your son’s unweighted GPA could be less than 4.0 I worked in an admissions office where the unweighted GPA was 3.9, but the weighted GPA was well over 4.0… big difference on input data.
General rule II: GPA is more important than are test scores. As already noted in prior postings, large research universities have used foreign students as a researching workforce for years. WPI is a relatively small university with about 400 Chinese students and a large number of Indian students in PhD programs doing research. These students may assist, but do not teach. Research brings valuable income. With today’s BS in CS market, most native CS majors will not hang around for a PhD.
The CS applicant stream has gotten out of hand most everywhere.
I worked at a more expensive, private MA University with many CS majors. The average GPA is 3.89. The average weighted GPA is well over 4.0. It is a private university tied with U Mass for CS ranking and does give merit aide, but is extremely competitive for that aide. These universities were identified in an earlier post. Where else did you apply?
As a MA resident, a student may also attend U of Maine in Orono for the U Mass price. The CS program is very solid and the campus is beautiful. It does get chilly!
Can I ask where was he accepted? We were very surprised that My son was WL at umass as well. And now very worried about admission to other highly ranked schools.
Unfortunately, being WL at UMass for CS is not unusual for super high stats in-state students. Our class val from last year was WL to CS (but admitted to honors program) - she is now at MIT. My son has another friend that went through the same thing last year (not as high stats as kiddo #1 but still very strong) – he is at WPI now (and loves it). There doesn’t seem to be a rhyme or reason - I assume they are WL kids that they don’t think will attend. The CS program is tiny (65 spots per class) which is another issue - they should really expand it - I’ve heard great things about it and, frankly, the price is right so why should in-state kids be penalized this way. I haven’t heard of impact outside CS (and, nursing, another tiny program) - all of my kiddo’s friends (including him) have been accepted so far this year (including Isenberg)- but none applied to CS.
I agree. It’s been very frustrating for friends whose kids are interested in CS. Granted, the kid who is at MIT wasn’t going to attend, but the other kid would have strongly considered it. From what I understand (not a CS family) it is a really, really good program with excellent outcomes. It should be much more accessible - unlike nursing you aren’t limited by the availability of hospitals etc.
I didn’t know UMass Amherst CS was that small, great info. I assume they are so limited because it’s difficult to hire CS profs and adjuncts, that seems to be a primary limitation at many CS programs.
Hmm, maybe I got it backwards (entirely possible). For some reason I think someone told me that whose kiddo applied. In any case, a very small program.