Umich or University of Miami??

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
1

<p>Born and raised here in Michigan and all my life I've heard how wonderful and prestigious the University of Michigan is. There is one problem, well several problems, not only do I not really like the state or the bitterly cold weather that we experience I don't have a diehard passion for the University of Michigan (sadly). </p>

<p>The other school I'm considering that I have been accepted to is the University of Miami. I've visited it and it appears to be a wonderful place. I love the weather there, I love the laidback attitude but still heavily focused on school. My problem with Miami is that even today many in the country, state, and my school view it as a party school. You know, a place to spend 4 years tanning, partying. One big vacation with no thought about the future. While this is clearly not true as demonstrated by the mean ACT and SAT and the astronomical soar in rankings that the U has undergone in the last half decade I feel that this stigma will persist in four years time. Which is disturbing to me because I want to go into the medical field and hoping to attend an Ivy League or similarly prestigious medical school. Do you guys believe that if I went to Miami and performed well (3.75-3.8 GPA and did well on my MCAT) that I'd have a far worse shot of getting into one of those lusted after ivy league medical schools than if I had gone to Michigan? </p>

<p>I understand that many of you may be slightly biased but if you could see it from my perspective, what college would you choose? And why?</p>

2

<p>As far as I’m aware, GPA is the most important thing in terms of Med school admissions. If you can afford it, I’d say follow your heart. If that isn’t Michigan, then so be it. Although I hope you’ve given us a fair shot because it’s pretty damn awesome here.</p>

3

<p>You need to look at a couple of things:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Overall quality. Michigan is one of the top 10 universities in the US (only HYPSM are considered better), Miami is not considered one of the top 50 universities, no matter what the USNWR says. There is a big difference in the actual quality and reputation of those two schools. When one thinks Michigan, they usually associate with other top universities. Michigan’s peers are Cal, Cornell, Northwestern and Penn. That is clearly not the case with Miami.</p></li>
<li><p>Cost of attendance. As a resident, Michigan will cost $30k annually. Miami will cost ~$55,000 annually. Over four years, we are talking about $100k. Even if you come from a wealthy family, that’s no chump change considering you will be attending a significantly weaker university.</p></li>
<li><p>You say ou want to go to one of the most prestigious Medical schools in the country. Michigan has its own prestigious (top 10) medical school which strongly favors its own students.</p></li>
</ol>

4

<p>While Michigan is a great school, there are many schools besides HYPSM that are considered better.</p>

5

<p>Saman, there are no other universities in the US that are considered better, on average. The next wave of schools following HYPSM includes 10-12 universities, and Michigan is among them. Like I said, Michigan’s peers are Cornell, Northwestern and Penn.</p>

6

<p>I would say that without a doubt Georgetown, Vanderbilt, WashU, Cornell, Caltech, Hopkins and Penn are all considered more prestigious and academically rigorous than Michigan. Their standards for admission are also higher.</p>

7

<p>saman, you are stating your own opinion. Surely, all the universities you listed are excellent in their own right. I would add at least another dozen, including Brown, Cal, Chicago, Dartmouth, Duke, Northwestwen, Rice, UCLA and UVa among them. Each of those universities, including the seven you listed can make a strong case for itself against any non-HYPSM university and they will each have a strong base of supporters to back up those claims. But in the end, it is all just opinion. </p>

<p>My own father and sister are both Georgetown alums and when I was choosing between Michigan and Georgetown, both strongly urged me to go to Michigan as they felt it was much better. Again, that was their opinion. </p>

<p>However, if you ask the experts (university professors, presidents and deans), or a large number of highly educated people (hundreds of thousands of them across the world), the average rating assigned to Michigan would be as high as, if not higher, than most of the schools on your list. The PA score on the USNWR is the most accurate rating of universities I have seen to date. According to the PA, Michigan’s rasting has always hovered between 4.4 and 4.6/5.0. Other universities with similar peer ratings are Brown, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern and Penn. Emory, Georgetown, Rice, Vanderbilt and WUSTL have ratings of 4.0-4.2, which is in fact significantly lower than Michigan’s 4.5 rating. As such, among the most highly educated Americans, clearly Michigan is rated among the very best.</p>

<p>Another thing, to say that any university is more rigorous than Michigan is extremely wrong. In fact, with the exception of a handful of universities (Caltech, Chicago, MIT and perhaps Cornell and JHU), Michigan is arguably one of the most intense academic environments I have ever seen. Even the brightest students struggle to maintain good grades.</p>

8

<p>i would visit each school one more time and when you go on campus you will know that you belong there.
as for miami being just a party school and that kids dont think about their future, that really depends on the student.
i have a brother who graduated from Umiami last year and now has a full time job working for a great company in NY.
you want to be happy for the next 4 years of your life.
Miami has also gone up very much in the rankings, their Dean is doing a phenomenal job.
Either way you will be getting a degree from a great school.</p>

9

<p>I would say choose Miami. Don’t fret about the stigma other students and those not well versed in the current higher education climate will apply to your school. The people who actually matter, ie. grad school admissions counselors and prospective employers, will know Miami is much more than a party school. Not to mention prestige is highly overrated anyways. </p>

<p>Also, @Alexandre: You can’t just cite some arbitrary “4.5” ranking to claim that Michigan is a peer school with the likes of Cornell. In most of the rankings Michigan is in the mid to upper 20s; these rankings are highly arbitrary as well. However, the one factor that is not arbitrary, is the difficulty of gaining admission to a University. We all know Michigan has a much higher acceptance rate, lower test score ranges, and a huge number of students accepted to Michigan wouldn’t come close to receiving admission at schools like Duke, Northwestern, or Cornell. You can’t attack @saman for stating his/her own opinion because your response was opinion as well (as is most of my response). Michigan obviously is a great school and one that I love very much, but if you don’t add a touch of realism to your idealistic outlook you risk losing credibility in the eyes of educated readers.</p>

10

<p>I disagree nhersh, Miami has not improved vis-a-vis other universities. It is a myth that a university can magically leap past other universities in a short period of time. Universities do not just stand still and wait for other universities to fly past them. As Miami improved in the last 20 years, so has virtually any other university in the nation. What has happened to help Miami rise in the rankings is one of two things:</p>

<ol>
<li>The ranking has adjusted its methodology to aid schools with a similar profile to Miami</li>
<li>Miami has become more adept at gaming the rankings, as have many private universities.</li>
</ol>

<p>However, I have not seen any real indication that Miami has improved in recent years. There are two major factors that go into determining:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Resources (library, endowment, labs, facilities). Michigan’s libary system contains 9 million volumes, compared to Miami’s 3 million volumes. Michigan’s endowment stands at $7.8 billion, 6th largest in the nation. If you include state funding, Michigan’s endowment is comparable to a private university with an endowment of $14 billion. Miami’s endowment stands at $750 million. Although Michigan has 42,000 students compared to Miami’s 16,000, it is still a huge gap in wealth. </p></li>
<li><p>Faculty/departmental quality: Michigan is ranked among the top 20 in every single discipline. It is in fact ranked among the top 10 in the majority of them. Miami is not ranked in the top 50 in any field of study. This also speaks to the quality of the faculty.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Something else to consider is Michigan’s medical school. It is ranked among the top 10 in the US, as are its medical facilities. The opportunities for undergrads to conduct research and secure internships at the university medical complex are certainly aplenty, and as I stated earlier, the medical school at Michigan gives priority to University of Michigan applicants. Miami’s medical school, although good, is not nearly as good as Michigan’s.</p>

<p>That is not to say Miami is not good, but it is not on par with Michigan. Clearly, Michigan is significantly better. I doubt that your experience at Miami will be significantly different from the one you will have at Michigan, but the quality of education will be significantly different.</p>

11

<p>Alexandre, I think your view of Michigan is a bit idealistic and skewed by your being a student there. With all due respect, objectively, all the schools we discussed earlier are better schools than Michigan. Of those, I would say UVa and UCLA are peer schools. But to say that Michigan’s peers are Cornell, Caltech, and the like is just inaccurate.</p>

12

<p>stewta, I did not attack saman. How was my post an attack in any way. Did I insult him or threaten him in any way? </p>

<p>And where did I post my opinion? I stated only facts. The peer assessment score merely proves that on average, Michigan’s peers are indeed the ones I mentioned. </p>

<p>Your attachment to selectivity is admirable stewta, but it only addresses selectivity, not quality. Quality is determined only by resources and faculty, I am sure you agree.</p>

13

<p>saman, I attended Michigan 20 years ago (class of 1996). I also attended Cornell for graduate school. I know for a fact that the two schools are peers and almost identical in nature. Heck, Cornell’s co-founder and first president, Andrew Dickson White, was hired from Michigan, as have 5 other of Cornell’s 12 presidents. I personally chose Michigan over Brown, Cal, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern and Penn for undergraduate studies, and among my advisors were family members that attended most of those schools, including my mother who is a Columbia alum, my father and sister who are Georgetown alums, an uncle who is an alum of Penn and another who is an alum of MIT. </p>

<p>I have noticed that the manjority of 16-25 year olds cannot get past the USNWR rankings and selectivity. But generally speaking, later in life, people will judge universities very differently, which explains why Michigan is so highly regarded by the educated elite. Just because a single ranking with a methodology designed for private universities rates Michigan 10-15 spots (out of thousands of universities) below private peers does not make it any weaker. It is not possible for a ranking to distinguish between universities with such surgical precision.</p>

14

<p>Georgetown, Vanderbilt, WashU? O_O what are these schools known for again? besides being top 20 in US News Rankings?</p>

15

<p>“The PA score on the USNWR is the most accurate rating of universities I have seen to date.”
That’s not an opinion??? It seems as those you attribute high quality rankings to those that match your own preconceived notions of academic prestige. And by attack, I didn’t mean it literal as in a threat, rather you trying to undermine his argument by labeling it an opinion. Quality is, of course essential. However, you must note that Michigan is more widely known because of its size and age; many of these other schools have risen to prominence more recently which is why people who graduated long ago may view Michigan as more prestigious, which doesn’t, as you incorrectly imply, signify a higher quality per say. However, selectivity is one of the most important factors in determining prestige.</p>

16

<p>Nice derail over a slap fight on the prestige of Michigan. It’s a great university. But yeah, it’s harder to get into an Ivy and there’s somewhat more prestige with a UPenn or Cornell BA than a Michigan BA (mostly because it’s way harder to get into those schools for undergrad than Michigan). Trust me on this. You can sit and start spouting off a thousand statistics and ranking, but that hardly impresses people. Deal with it.</p>

<p>As far as grad and professional schools at Michigan, they are easily in the same league as Ivies and other peer universities. Completely different story, and this kid is looking for an undergrad degree.</p>

<p>OP, since you’ve been ignored, I have to ask, why do you want to be a doctor? Why? So you can go to an Ivy league school later and impress people at cocktail parties? So you can feel good about yourself? What’s so important about the Ivy League and its medical schools? I have an Ivy degree (masters from Princeton). No one cares. I don’t know you, and maybe you want to be a physician because you really do want to help people and society, but you come off sort of self-absorbed here (of course though, you’re a teenager). </p>

<p>I’m not saying you shouldn’t shoot for good medical schools. And if your goal is to be an academic or getting into the best residency ever, then yeah, schools like Harvard or JHU can be a plus. And there are plenty of good reasons to want to go to Harvard Med. But it seems like the main one for you is prestige. Ivy league schools are incredibly different from each other. You need good reasons to go to EACH of them, and I doubt you can do that and be intellectually consistent.</p>

17

<p>“As far as grad and professional schools at Michigan, they are easily in the same league as Ivies and other peer universities. Completely different story, and this kid is looking for an undergrad degree.”</p>

<p>Of course you are going to say that, look where you are attending graduate school.</p>

18

<p>We can also note that while uofm is ranked 20 something for best universities in the country, it is ranked 14th for best in the world. That alone should make people question the Usnews rankings. How can Michigan be higher internationally than it is nationally?</p>

19

<p>Look at the rankings of the uofm graduate programs. They are up there with the ivys and stanford.</p>

20

<p>To the OP,</p>

<p>I am in the same situation you are in. I have lived in Michigan all my life, but sadly did not get into the University of Michigan as a freshman. I came to Miami instead and am a second-semester sophomore at the moment. In my opinion, I think this school is a little over-hyped. I really enjoy cold weather however (i know, kind of weird) so I really can not stand the heat that you would experience here. I am most likely transferring to Michigan for my junior year (pending some other school applications).</p>

<p>I plan on pursuing an MD/MBA at preferably a top 15 school in both medicine and business. What you mentioned about being at a disadvantage coming from Miami, no one can really tell to an extent. Getting a 3.75-3.8 GPA here is no joke, but then again, neither is it at Michigan. One thing you will get with Michigan is that their pre-med advising is structured so that you will be competitive applicant for Michigan Med School and other schools like it (research-focused, top 10, etc). I am in no way saying that going to Michigan as an undergraduate gives you advantage at Michigan Med school, but if you look at the data, the top 10 med schools have students coming from more prestigious schools. This is probably because the difficulty of the classes at those more prestigious schools is higher, but will prepare you for the MCAT better. (I know Duke is another example of this)</p>

<p>Another thing you have to consider is your extracurriculars and research. Michigan has an absolute advantage in that aspect. Michigans medical campus is located closely to Central campus and you can walk there. For Miami, the actual medical campus is located in Miami, while the undergraduate campus is located in Coral Gables. They are not far away if you take the train, but again, it’s more of a hassle. The University of Michigan Hospital also has this huge volunteer program you can enroll in. I don’t really know much about that however, as I have not invested time in researching about it yet.</p>

<p>All that being said, you will do the best where you are the most comfortable, so I would follow your gut instinct. However, I would keep in mind Michigans resources as well as overall prestige when making your decision. (sorry I know its pretty arrogant to keep coming back to prestige, but medical schools, and especially top 10 medical schools are looking for any excuse to reject you.)</p>

<p>If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.</p>