<p>West Coast uses SAT far more than ACT.</p>
<p>Go over to the Berkeley thread. No one is having trouble getting required classes to graduate. They may be put on a wait list or need to select another section, but I’ve yet to see threads with kids complaining they aren’t graduating on time. </p>
<p>The budget cuts have been around awhile. State funding stabilized with passage of Proposition 30 back in November. Recent stock market increases have created tax surplus. Jerry Browns budget proposal restores all education funding.</p>
<p>SAT scores are similar. I just didn’t want to post two numbers. Low end of Math is lower at UCB 630 v. 650. High end higher at UCB 770 v. 750. UCB is slightly higher on reading though: 20 on the low end, 30 on the high.</p>
<p>Berkeley is also generous with AP credits allowing students to bypass some lower division requirements. A lot of students graduate in 3-3.5 years.</p>
<p>“State funding stabilized with passage of Proposition 30 back in November. Recent stock market increases have created tax surplus. Jerry Browns budget proposal restores all education funding.”</p>
<p>You do make a fair point, I do think CA is trying to make sure they don’t destroy UCB’s well-earned reputation as a top public school. Maybe things won’t get worse.</p>
<p>The department rankings are earned mostly through faculty publishing, an effort which generally robs undergrads of instruction. All research institutions have to prove that they pay attention to undergrads because many do not. UM does a better job taking care of undergrads than UCB, I believe.</p>
<p>^ seaslipper, that is pure conjecture. </p>
<p>Both Berkeley and Michigan rate highly on USNWR’s Dedication to Undergrad Teaching survey.
<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching#[/url]”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching#</a> </p>
<p>Berkeley and Michigan are both large research universities. Both faculties have same goals. Berkeley does better because it has a more distinguished faculty. Faculty distinction drives academic distinction.</p>
<p>Recently, the prestigious American Academy of Arts and Sciences and the National Academy of Science inducted new faculty members. Berkeley inducted 10 members into AAAS and 3 into the NAE. Michigan (which has a larger faculty and medical school) inducted 1.5 members and 0 members, respectively. That is terrible for a research university the caliber of Michigan. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1497211-faculty-strength.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1497211-faculty-strength.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1497766-american-academy-arts-sciences-announces-new-2013-members-news-item.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1497766-american-academy-arts-sciences-announces-new-2013-members-news-item.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“2013 NAS Members and Foreign Associates Elected”>2013 NAS Members and Foreign Associates Elected;
<p><a href=“http://www.amacad.org/news/alphalist2013.pdf[/url]”>http://www.amacad.org/news/alphalist2013.pdf</a></p>
<p>[U-M</a> leads nation with 19 AAAS fellows - myScience / science wire](<a href=“science wire | myScience.us - Science and Careers in USA”>U-M leads nation with 19 AAAS fellows | myScience / science wire)</p>
<p>I guess they’re doing something right.</p>
<p>^That’s a different AAAS, rjk.</p>
<p>FYI. I have the official 2012 admission data from UMich. For ACT 25-75%, it is 29-33 (27-33 for UCB). For SAT, it is 1990-2230 (1840-2230 & avg 2068 for UCB). Average GPA is 3.83 (3.89 for UCB). They are very close.</p>
<p>“That’s a different AAAS”</p>
<p>They have been around since 1848. They should sue for copyright infringement! LOL</p>
<p>American Academy of Arts & Sciences has been around since 1780…</p>
<p>Admission data means little. It’s the enrolled data that’s important.<br>
But I agree both are close in undergrad student strength.</p>
<p>“American Academy of Arts & Sciences has been around since 1780”</p>
<p>Like I said, “They should sue for copyright infringement!”</p>
<p>Ann Arbor is a fantastic college town. Jump on a cheap bus and visit for a weekend. Great school spirit. Very well respected school. </p>
<p>Then do as your heart dictates. You can’t go wrong with either school.</p>
<p>Agreed. You can’t go wrong at either school. But you can go more right at Michigan. :)</p>
<p>You see UCBChemEGrad, you talk like a typical Berkeley person. Rankings, elitism, competitiveness. It rings hallow to me, particularly when you are splitting hairs. UM is outstanding in its research and its rankings. It brings in more research dollars than UCB. More importantly, would you tell a kid not to go to Darmouth or Cornell? UCB beats out all places except Harvard when it comes to Nobel prizes and American Academy of Arts & Sciences memberships. Does that translate to a good undergraduate education? I know many people who got ignored and lost at Berkeley, and some at Michigan too. It’s sad that education has become a numbers game. Congratulations you win. You are #1. La di da. Carry home your trophy. Now let’s figure out where 18 years olds can get a good education and start their lives off right. Your whole approach is an argument against going to Berkeley.</p>
<p>I don’t say this from insecurity. I was admitted twice to Berkeley, once as an undergrad. and again as a grad.</p>
<p>Michigan brings in more research money because it has a medical school. Cal+UCSF+LBNL…Then you have apples to apples comparison.</p>
<p>The faculty difference is not splitting hairs. That is the biggest difference between Michigan and Cal. It’s important to me…it could be important to a potential undergrad. For someone with the OP’s academic interests, Berkeley is the clear choice in my opinion. Especially since costs are same.</p>
<p>I feared you might mention med school research. But isn’t that to UM’s credit? They have a med. school. UCSF is not Berkeley. Hey, what kind of major research U doesn’t have a medical school? LBNL I might consider Berkeley as it’s right on the premises.</p>
<p>Maybe a brilliant grad. student should go to the more distinguished faculty, that is if they have the slightest interest in mentoring, which many geniuses do not. Even then, I’d to go the place where their exact interests are mine.</p>
<p>But for an 18 year old who just wants to be introduced to his subject. I’d go to the place where I’d be happy, engaged and where I matter. I don’t need Einstein to teach me physics 101. In fact he might do a terrible job. So he gets to be famous and I feel like a failure. Wonderful. </p>
<p>You need to separate the ego gratification of being loosely associated with the elite of the elite with what’s good for kids.</p>
<p>I say again, your approach is an argument against undergrad work at Berkeley. Listening to you, I’d run the other way. You reveal the whole obsession they have they with department rankings that often run counter to teaching. You can’t research and teach at the same time. One suffers for the other. This is widely known.</p>