UMich VS Washington U in St Louis

College Search & Selection
21

<p>“They are experts at manipulating their data to climb the USNWR overall rankings.”</p>

<p>I believe that’s a person’s opinion. This has been discussed plenty of times and there is still no proof to that accusation. So, just drop it and accept the fact that WUSTL is ranked higher than UMich at undergrad level. Many schools that are less famous than UMich (i.e. WUSTL, Emory, Vanderbilt, Rice, Dartmouth, and Notre Dame) are ranked higher than UMich at undergrad level because of the ranking methodology that USNEWS uses. So, get over it.</p>

22

<p>"“UMich beats Princeton and a handful of ivy league schools in most of the world rankings, but people know it’s not really the case in reality”</p>

<p>Here’s one where Princeton and a handful of Ivy League schools rate higher than Michigan. </p>

<p>[ARWU</a> 2010](<a href=“http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp]ARWU”>http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp)</p>

<p>Of course WUSTL is not one of those schools in this list either. :slight_smile: "</p>

<p>I believe I said MOST of the world rankings. NOT ALL. Ok, I believe people have eyes and can see that it’s pointless to argue with you. So, I’m gonna stop here and leave you alone.</p>

<p>@xszhang: Congrats for your acceptances to these 2 prestigious universities. I wish you all the best in your future endeavour! :)</p>

23

<p>The bottom line is that Michigan is an excellent engineering school. Yale is not great in engineering, but it is Yale and is one of the best schools on the planet. WUSTL is not great in engineering and it is also not Yale. You have to decide what’s most important for yourself. Personally, I think it’s an easy choice.</p>

24

<p>Here are the undergraduate rankings for engineering schools in the U.S. for 2010:</p>

<p>Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs (Where highest degree is a doctorate)
Ranked in 2010
1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology Cambridge, MA 4.8
2 Stanford University Stanford, CA 4.7
3 University of California–Berkeley Berkeley, CA 4.6
4 California Institute of Technology Pasadena, CA 4.5
Georgia Institute of Technology Atlanta, GA 4.5
6 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign Champaign, IL 4.4
7 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI 4.3
8 Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 4.2
Cornell University Ithaca, NY 4.2
Purdue University–West Lafayette West Lafayette, IN 4.2
11 Princeton University Princeton, NJ 4.1
University of Texas–Austin Austin, TX 4.1
13 Johns Hopkins University Baltimore, MD 3.9
Northwestern University Evanston, IL 3.9
University of Wisconsin–Madison Madison, WI 3.9
Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 3.9
17 Pennsylvania State University–University Park University Park, PA 3.8
Texas A&M University–College Station College Station, TX 3.8
19 Rice University Houston, TX 3.7
University of California–Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 3.7
University of Maryland–College Park College Park, MD 3.7
22 Duke University Durham, NC 3.6
University of California–San Diego La Jolla, CA 3.6
University of Minnesota–Twin Cities Minneapolis, MN 3.6
University of Washington Seattle, WA 3.6
26 Columbia University New York, NY 3.5
Harvard University Cambridge, MA 3.5
North Carolina State University–Raleigh Raleigh, NC 3.5
Ohio State University–Columbus Columbus, OH 3.5
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Troy, NY 3.5
University of Southern California Los Angeles, CA 3.5
32 University of California–Davis Davis, CA 3.4
University of Colorado–Boulder Boulder, CO 3.4
University of Florida Gainesville, FL 3.4
University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 3.4
36 Lehigh University Bethlehem, PA 3.3
University of California–Santa Barbara Santa Barbara, CA 3.3
University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 3.3
Vanderbilt University Nashville, TN 3.3
40 Brown University Providence, RI 3.2
Case Western Reserve University Cleveland, OH 3.2
Iowa State University Ames, IA 3.2
Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 3.2
Yale University New Haven, CT 3.2
45 Arizona State University Tempe, AZ 3.1
Dartmouth College Hanover, NH 3.1
Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey–New Brunswick Piscataway, NJ 3.1
University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 3.1
University of California–Irvine Irvine, CA 3.1
University of Notre Dame Notre Dame, IN 3.1
Washington University in St. Louis St. Louis, MO 3.1</p>

25

<p>@xszhang: when you finish undergrad, you can pursue a WUSTL-Fudan EMBA. #1 in mainland China.:slight_smile: Do you know if WUSTL has any other collaborative programs with Fudan?</p>

<p>[Washington</a> University in St.Louis & Fudan University - EMBA](<a href=“http://www.fdsm.fudan.edu.cn/topemba/]Washington”>Washington University-Fudan University EMBA)</p>

26

<p>Or if you really want to impress you can come back to Michigan to get your EMBA from a top ten program:</p>

<p>[Best</a> Executive MBA Programs | Top Executive MBA Schools | US News Best Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/executive-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/executive-rankings)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.executive-mba.us/[/url]”>http://www.executive-mba.us/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

27

<p>LOL. rjkofnovi, you are underestimating the sacred WUSTL-Fudan bond. </p>

<p>According to the Financial Times:</p>

<h1>18 WUSTL-Fudan EMBA >>>>>>> #31 Michigan EMBA</h1>

<p>[Financial</a> Times - EMBA Rankings 2010](<a href=“http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/emba-rankings-2010]Financial”>http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/emba-rankings-2010)</p>

28

<p>I’m just playing with you Gatsby11. I know WUSTL is a great school. :-)</p>

29

<p>^I think we scared away the OP. LOL.</p>

30

<p>No, he took my advise and stayed away from you fools.</p>

31

<p>Hey Fresh Prince, I doubt if anyone takes your “advise.”:)</p>

32

<p>@Gatsby11: I am still listening. I have heard of the WUSTL-Fudan program.</p>

<p>I happened to know that WUSTL also has an exchange program with Fudan. Some WUSTL students can visit and take regular courses at Fudan through this program. That is all I know.</p>

<p>Are you a WUSTL student?</p>

33

<p>@MrPrince: Thank you for your advice. I will talk to Alexander. But since my major is engineering, it may still be hard to decide.</p>

34

<p>

No, I am simply a big fan of the place. However, I know BearCub, is/was a student, so you should send him a PM if you’d like more detailed information about student life. Also, remember that Alexandre is knowledgeable, but he also has his biases as a Michigan alumnus.

I heard about this as well; I think this is a fantastic opportunity for WUSTL students to visit Fudan and vice versa. I know Fudan is a great university with a top-notch EMBA program and is especially strong in the sciences and mathematics.</p>

<p>Regarding your options, I think both WUSTL and Michigan are excellent choices and you deserve congratulations for gaining admission in such a competitive admissions cycle. I’d say gather as much information as you can from your advisors at Fudan, CC, and elsewhere, but you really can’t go wrong either way. Again, congrats and good luck!</p>

35

<p>Wow, so many posts on this thread…many of them juicy little morsels! ;)</p>

<p>Anyhoo, the OP, Michigan and WUSTL are very different universities. Both are excellent and have world-renowned medical centers, but that is where the similarities end. Quoting rankings is pointless. Those “international rankings” and the USNWR College rankings tend to be flawed and attempt to create forced rankings where they truly are not required. How (and why) does one differentiate between the top 20 or 30 universities in a country where you have hundreds of established and accredited institutions of higher learning. </p>

<p>In a nation that is as large as the US, there are literally dozens of excellent universities and it is virtually impossible to rank them with any degree of accuracy. Suffice it to say, Michigan and WUSTL are both elite universities. WUSTL’s peers are mid-sized research universities such as Brown, Emory, Johns Hopkins, Notre Dame, Rice and Vanderbilt. Michigan’s peers are larger research universities such as Cornell, Northwestern, Penn, UC-Berkeley, UIUC, UT-Austin and Wisconsin-Madison.</p>

<p>Where your majors are concerned, Michigan is generally ranked in or around the top 10 nationally. WUSTL is not as highly rated in those fields. Department rankings should not be taken in a vaccum of course. As BearCub points out, Purdue is ranked higher than Princeton in Engineering, but it would be unwise to choose Purdue over Princeton for one’s undergraduate studies because Princeton is significantly stronger than Purdue overall and only slightly weaker than Purdue in Engineering. But that comparison does not apply to Michigan vs WUSTL. In terms of overall quality, Michigan and WUSTL are roughly equal, but in terms of the strengths of their Engineering and Physics departments, Michigan is considered stronger than WUSTL.</p>

<p>But the above should not be the sole basis for choosing one over the other. Below are some metrics I would use to make my decision. Those would address the more important criteria of “fit” rather than attempt to establish which university is “better” when it is clear that such an attempt is futile.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Michigan is a large public university while WUSTL is a mid-sized private university. As such, there are going to be sublte differences between the two. The reason why the differences are subtle is because Michigan is more like a private university than most public universities. But there are still differences between them. WUSTL will have slightly smaller classes, particularly at introduction level classes. Michigan will also feel a lot larger and less intimate than WUSTL. Some people like the cozy atmosphere offered at WUSTL while others prefer the vastness of the University of Michigan.</p></li>
<li><p>Michigan is located in Ann Arbor (considered one of the quintiscential college towns) while WUSTL is in one of the nicest areas of St Louis, a large but not so-pleasant city.</p></li>
<li><p>60% of Michigan undergrads are residents of the state, compared to just 10% at WUSTL. This pertains more to Americans than international students, but it is worth considering. At WUSTL, over 50% of students come from outside the region (Midwest), compared to only 25% at Michigan. that is not to say that Michigan has no geographic diversity since it has over 5,000 undergrads who from coast US states such as New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Florida, Texas and California. However, as a percentage of the overall student population, WUSTL will be more diverse.</p></li>
<li><p>Athletics play a significant role in Michigan’s campus life. Its football and hockey programs are two of the most successful in all of college sports and Michigan stadium seats over 112,000, making it the largest stadium in the US. Sports do not play as large a role in campus life at WUSTL. Many find Michigan’s athletic tradition off-putting while others feel it adds to the campus culture.</p></li>
<li><p>Another thing to consider is the Chinese population at those two schools. At Michigan, 6% of the undergraduate student population (1,700 in total) is international and of those, more than one third (602) come from China/Hong Kong. That is a huge number. WUSTL only has 350 international students in total, and I doubt that more than 100 of those are Chinese. If you include graduate students, the number increases dramatically. Michigan has 3,500 international graduate students, and of those, more than one quarter (980)come from China/Hong Kong. Altogether, Michigan has 1,582 students at Michigan come fron China or Hong Kong. Having so many students from your native China will probably make it easier for you to adjust to living in the US. Many of those students will graduate and return to China. I know Michigan’s alumni association in China is very large and very active. President Mary Sue Coleman often makes trips to China. Clearly, Michigan’s reputation on China is strong and goes way back. I think Michigan was one of the first US universities to establish formal ties with China over 100 years ago. I am not sure how WUSTL does on this front, but I do not think it can match Michigan.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>At any rate, one cannot go wrong with either of those two universities. Both are excellent and will provide you with a unique and special experience. The trick is to choose the school that fits you better. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

36

<p>Alexandre makes an excellent point about the relative strengths of the alumni networks in China. When you complete your studies in the US, and any work experiences on the visa extensions permitted for students in your visa status, you will need to be able to find a job back in China. If one or the other of your options is more likely to help you find that job, you should take that into account.</p>

37

<p>@Alexandre: Thank for your comparison.</p>

38

<p>@happymomof1: Yes, “alumni networks in China” really reminds me of something I have to take into consideration.</p>

39

<p>Both excellent schools, of course, but for your areas of interest in engineering, in particular, Michigan is vastly stronger than Wash U. Just don’t see this as a complicated choice. As an international, as pointed out by Alexandre, you will not be alone at Michigan. Ann Arbor may be small, but is a much better location than St. Louis.</p>

40

<p>

You might be surprised on this point. WUSTL has been very aggressive in its international outreach efforts, particularly in China (not just at Fudan, but [other</a> universities](<a href=“http://mcdonnell.wustl.edu/partners/]other”>Partners - McDonnell International Scholars Academy) as well). Chancellor Wrighton, for example, regularly travels to China to cultivate new ties, research initiatives, and executive education programs. Michigan may have a slight edge in this regard, but WUSTL does have a significant and growing presence in the region.

Whether you prefer Ann Arbor or St. Louis is a matter of personal preference. WUSTL is in a very nice section of the city, surrounded by well-established, affluent neighborhoods and tree-lined boulevards. St. Louis does have some rough spots, but personally, I think the access to major league sports teams, the breadth and diversity of restaurants, upscale shopping districts, theaters, parks, and museums is superior to Ann Arbor (again, this is a personal preference). Certainly Michigan has an edge in engineering at the undergraduate level, but I think it is important to look at the broader picture as well.</p>

<p>Good luck with your choice.</p>