Umich with $$$ or MIT?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
41

<p>make sure you think you'll be comfortable.</p>

<p>My child faced the same dilemma last yr, chose UM over MIT, but then Harvard over UM.</p>

<p>There's no question the research & internship opportunities will be greater at MIT, as well as potential contacts...but at what price if you're unhappy? Several colleagues opined that the resume' w/ UM undergrad, MIT/Ivy grad would be more impressive than the other way around or Ivy/Ivy, but of course the undergrad is a bird in the hand at this point, no guarantees of getting into grad school. Weigh that against the experience you want to have as an undergrad: UM/A^2 is a great 4 yrs for most.</p>

<p>Couple comments in response to some of above: MIT has a spectacular setting on the banks of the Charles, but is curiously inconvenient to the T: good hike to either Central Sq or Kendall stations on the red line. (Tufts is the same, long walk to Davis Sq T.) Most of the frats are across the river in Boston, or further into Brookline...that can be one long cold walk across the Mass Ave bridge.</p>

<p>Nice dilemma to have! Good luck!</p>

42

<p>You can always transfer to Michigan, but you can't transfer to MIT, unless you strike luck with admissions again.</p>

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<p>there is no comparison. if you are even asking this question, you deserve to goto Michigan. anybody can get in michigan, MIT is probably the most selective university in the country. MIT is instant name recognition, an experience very select few get to experience. It doesn't even matter how you do there, u can say u went to MIT, the best technical college in the world.</p>

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<p>NYao, I think we all agree with some of what you say. The point is, does the OP value that? Does he care to impress people with where he went to college or does he value having a great undergraduate experience more? According to his initial post, it seemed that the "wow" factor was not that important to him. Let me put it this way:</p>

<p>PRESTIGE:
MIT = A+
Michigan = A-</p>

<p>Comment: There is no doubt that MIT is more prestigious than Michigan. MIT is THE biggest name in Engineering and Science education. Even to non-techies, MIT is one of the 5 or 6 most prestigious universities in the land. Michigan is very prestigious in its own right, but not as prestigious as MIT.</p>

<p>REPUTATION:
MIT = A+
Michigan = A-</p>

<p>Comment: Academe gives MIT a top rating of 4.9/5.0. Michigan gets a rating of 4.5 or 4.6/5.0. That's a significant difference, but Michigan holds its own.</p>

<p>JOB PLACEMENT:
MIT = A+
Michigan = A</p>

<p>Comment: Every major company recruits students by the dozens from MIT and Michigan annually. Both earn extremely high corporate scores. Any survey of top companies will clearly reveal both schools as top 10 hunting grounds.</p>

<p>GRADUATE SCHOOL PLACEMENT:
MIT: A
Michigan: A-</p>

<p>Comment: Neither school is known for gradute placement because they grade harshly. Still, according to a reliable WSJ study, MIT is 7th among research universities and Michigan 18th among research universities at placing their students into top </p>

<p>QUALITY OF LIFE:
MIT = C
Michigan = A</p>

<p>If one values prestige above all else, I would definitely recommend MIT. I think we have all said that. But if the OP truly doesn't care for the "wow" factor and really values a great undergraduate experience, Michigan may be the better option.</p>

45

<p>I had to bring this up since you mentioned "jobs". In the pure sciences, I can most certainly agree that Mich. is great and has great grad school placements for good students. But jobs? Engr. encompasses most of those jobs that people get upon grad.</p>

<p>Are you sure about that job placement Alexandre? Many people graduating from Mich engr. get sub par 3.0's and have a very difficult time finding jobs. I think nyao would agree that employers who recruit at other, lesser known schools don't really distinguish the difference between mich. and the like too much (w/ exception of consulting/IBD). This is not the case at MIT. I think you should lower that "A" rating to a "B". Don't get me wrong, I would choose Mich in a heartbeat but its only because I'm a social person and do not want to attend a tech school. </p>

<p>In fact, if you look at MSU; I would argue that just as many people find jobs. There's no real deficit. Their career center does a wonderful job. Broad does a very good job at placing students with the exception of IB/cons. where Ross prevails (but only a fraction of the jobs that students receive at mich go into IB so it's insignificant in the big picture). Engr. and other tech. sciences are the next thing we talk about outside of biz and i think both do a good job of job placement with no clear one sided victory. In fact many at mich get grade deflation because the prog. is so much more difficult but this isn't always noticed by employers and a lot of people end up getting rear ended. In this respect, I think MSU doesn't have as much grade deflation in tech. sciences because its not rigorous but engr. companies don't see this and don't really care. In fact, as a consequence it might be a little easier to get engr. jobs from MSU. </p>

<p>Overall, career placement is the same for both schools granted that a small percentage at Mich in the job market get choicer jobs but this is insignificant.</p>

<p>Now compare that to MIT/Cal-tech and you'll see there's a big difference. So .....</p>

<p>Mich job placement --B
MIT -- A+
MSU ---B</p>

46

<p>Eternity_Hope, I was erring on the side of conservative when it came to Michigan's scores. A is as low as I would go when it comes to professional placement. And you say that the percentage of students from Michigan who get excellent job opportunities is insignificant? That simply isn't true, unless if by insignificant, you mean 30%. Just look at the numbers. 10% of Engineering students chose jobs with Aerospace & Defense, primarily with Boeing, Lockheed Martin, NASA and Northrup Grumman. 5% chose jobs with consulting firms, including Accenture, Bain, Booz Allen and BCG. Another 5% chose jobs with IBs, including Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley and UBS. That's already 20%, and we haven't even scratched the surface. Another 10% join the likes of Cisco, IBM, GE, Intel, Medtronic and other A-list companies. None of those companies above recruit in bulk at regular universities and yet at Michigan, one in every three Engineering studentslands a job with such companies. That is NOT an "insignificant percentage" of students. A third of the total population is a very significant portion. MIT doesn't do better than 60% and the competition at MIT is significantly stiffer than at Michigan. And I'd say another 20% of Engineering students go to top 10 Engineering graduate schools straight out of college. So in reality, 50% of Michigan Engineering students do very well. Do you honestly think that any university ranked out of the top 20 comes even close to such statistics? Do you think MSU comes close to those numbers? </p>

<p>And did you try to compare Broad to Ross? Are you serious? 35% of Ross students end up with one of the top 10 Investment Banks or one of the top 5 Management Consulting firms. You call that insignificant? Last year, out of a class of 350 students, 100 or so Ross students joined the likes of JP Morgan (12), Goldman Sachs (10), Morgan Stanley (4), Lazard (3), Lehman Brothers (4), Merrill Lynch (4), Citigroup (4), Deutschebank (6), UBC (11), Credit Suisse (10), CIBC World Markets (5), Bear Stearns (5) and Blackstone (2) and 20 or so joined the mose exclusive Management consulting firms such as McKinsey (3), Bain (3), Booz Allen (3), Mercer (3) and BCG (4). Another 50% or so of Ross students end up with firms like Ford, Microsoft, GE, PWC, E&Y etc...Among B schools, only Wharton does better. Broad doesn't even come close. </p>

<p>But I do agree that approximately 50% of Michigan Engineering and LSA students end up with sub 3.0 GPAs and I already stressed that those students will generally struggle to find choice jobs. I never said otherwise. If you read my post above, I clearly stated that. But those 50% of students would most likely never have made it into MIT. It is important to compare apples to apples. You cannot compare a student who got into MIT and Michigan to the bottom 50% of Michigan's student body. Obviously, a larger portion of MIT students get excellent placement opportunities than Michigan students. But then again, a larger portion of MIT students are worthy of such opportunities. Can you imagine if only 30% of MIT students got excellent jobs? That would mean that most geniuses at MIT would be left jobless! LOL At the end of the day, both universities will open the same doors, it's just that a larger portion of MIT students are likely to be qualified to walk through. But make no mistake, students of equal calibre and ability attending either university will have equally great opportunities come graduation time. </p>

<p>In short, top students will do as well going to Michigan as they would going to MIT.</p>

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<p>i don't think quality of life should make a difference. Whether you have a good experience socially in college is up to the person. if you mean parties, beer, DI sports=good college experience. Then, u are blinded by something. There are plenty of people who don't enjoy those things and still have a good time in college. Boston offers a lot of things to do, while Ann Arbor itself is kool, u won't get anywhere else without a car.
I went to 2 years of football games, and I personally by this point feel bored by them. The first few experiences in Michigan Stadium is awesome, but after that it gets boring pretty quickly.
All I'm saying is, the best way to make friends in college is to be surrounded by people who share similar values.</p>

48

<p>i recall the OP wants to major in Biology? i'm just gonna say career prospects in LSA is bad. Business and engineering school bring a lot of recruiters. But, this maybe because i'm not in LSA, maybe there are more recruiting events that i'm not aware of. but i went to 2 major career fairs earlier this year made possible by the LSA career center. and they were horrible. I don't really know how LSA people get jobs.</p>

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<p>Nyao, there is a lot more to Ann Arbor and Michigan and drinking (I do not drink myself) and football. Michigan's campus culture is unbeatable and Ann Arbor is unique. I know, I have been all over the world. You say the important thing is to find people who share similar values? Tell me NYao, where do you think a person is more likely to find a group who shares similar values...at MIT or at Michigan? LOL Seriously though, MIT is fine, but it is not exactly the most pleasant or well-rounded college atmosphere.</p>

<p>As for LSA career fairs, they are the same everywhere. Engineering and B school fairs are always more productive, unless a school doesn't have a great school of Engineering and Business. For example, career fairs at Brown or Dartmouth are primarily Arts and Sciences career fairs because neither offers undergraduate business or good Engineering. Furthermore, there are some general career fairs at Michigan and those are open to all Michigan students and they are pretty huge. But career fairs mean very little. Companies only go to career fairs to advertize...not to hire students. Companies visit companies after the career fairs and interview students who apply via the university e-job system (monstertrack or jobtrack or whatever the hell its name is! LOL). </p>

<p>But as an alum of the college of LSA, I can tell you that finding jobs is not difficult. All it takes is a good GPA and initiative. I had offers from a couple of major I Banks before graduating. The key is to take the initiative. Most LSA students end up enrolling into graduate school or getting a good job before graduation.</p>

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<p>Maybe you are this major jock who discriminates against intelligent people, I'm pretty sure people at MIT are more well-rounded/intelligent than people at Michigan. College admissions is not just a numbers game at MIT, like it is at Michigan. You need extracurricular and enthusiasm to get in MIT, all you need to get in Michigan are a decent gpa and an sat score. With the admissions essay that I wrote for Michigan, there was no way they could have read it.
You are overgeneralizing an entire school of interesting and intelligent people. and (LoL! OmGGGG! haHa.) </p>

<p>and frankly, i don't appreciate your trolling for Michigan all the time after graduating from it 10 years ago and still talking about it like you are still going here.</p>

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<p>Your last post doesn't make much sense NYao. Then again, not many of your other posts do! </p>

<p>1) I may have graduated in 1996, but I lived in Ann Arbor from 2001-2003 and I was one of the main recruiters for the Michigan and Cornell campuses for Ford and Eaton from 2001-2004. </p>

<p>2) Secondly, what makes you think I am jock? I am in fact a history and movie buff who really enjoys cooking and travelling. I would not classify Michigan students as Jocks either. And what's wrong with jocks? Stanford and Duke are considered jock schools.</p>

<p>3) Most people will tell you that MIT students, by and large, have a very high IQ and a relatively low EQ. Michigan students are more well rounded that MIT students and they also tend to have far more diverse intellectual and social interests.</p>

52

<p>
[quote]
but i went to 2 major career fairs earlier this year made possible by the LSA career center. and they were horrible. I don't really know how LSA people get jobs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Now hold on. Surely your knowledge of the LSA career services is wider than going to two of their job fairs. You made some pretty firm statements about recruiting at Michigan awhile ago, and you apparently stood by them even when questioned. You're now telling us that you made those statements based on stopping by two career fairs? </p>

<p>This not exactly a ringing endorsement of Michigan's emphasis on critical thinking and the limits of inductive reasoning.</p>

<p>Maybe I'm leaning ever more towards MIT for our OP. LOL</p>

53

<p>here comes the ad hominem attacks. It always leads to the same place when you disagree with alexandre.</p>

54

<p>i will try my best to avoid being ambiguous - go to mich. it's a great school and grad school is more important anyway.</p>

55

<p>
[quote]
Tell me NYao, where do you think a person is more likely to find a group who shares similar values...at MIT or at Michigan? LOL Seriously though, MIT is fine, but it is not exactly the most pleasant or well-rounded college atmosphere.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, I'm no NYao, but isn't this kind of subjective? I personally found MIT to be much better suited to my personality. And no, I'm not some kind of acne-tastic antisocial nerd-tron. An intense environment doesn't necessarily imply a competitive or unpleasant one. And intelligence and personality are not mutually exclusive... despite self-defacating on-campus jokes, even our compsci majors are quite witty and personable. I cannot pretend to understand the Michigan culture because I've never experienced it first hand so I'd expect the same from those who've never attended MIT. Sometimes stereotypes are just that.</p>

<p>EDIT: Visit both. If you wanna save some money and let some poor deserving kid off the waitlist go to Michigan :)</p>

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<p>pebbles, all I am saying is that Michigan is more diverse. I don't think that's such a crazy statement.</p>

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<p>Whatever man, I've said my piece. :o</p>

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<p>Hey guys, thanks for your advice. I think (~98% sure) that I will attend MIT. </p>

<p>Quality of life is a major factor at me, but I don't agree with Alexandre's "C" for MIT's quality of life. I love my friends at home, but it sometimes seem like they don't understand why I want to keep working on a project when I already have an A in the class, or study so much for science team, etc. (Most of my friends are not slackers at all, but not as super-focused as I am.) I hate being pulled into two different directions in terms of whether to go to hang out with my friends or possibly hurt their feelings by telling them that I "need" to do science stuff. I realize that at either school I will have to decide between social and academic activities, but at MIT the pressure will be less.</p>

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<p>good choice, you are a smart man. Wish you luck!</p>

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<p>Remember that well over half of Michigan undergrads were in the top 5% of their high school class. Most of them got that the same way you did, by having to turn down some social situations for academics, so the pressure isn't nearly what it is in high school. Especially if we're talking about the honors college, where just about everyone was top 1%.</p>