well, im probably applying out of state to this program, and first of all, i think your scores are kinda low. Do you plan on retaking the SAT or anything. Also, how many honors classes have you taken, because you said you havnet taken any AP tests? How about AP courses. Dont worry about the interview so many months before you even know if you will get one. What is your personal reason for going to medicine? Also, most doctors are not going to be like rush limbaugh or someone who gets insulted if you disagree with them. Just justify your opinions
How hard is it exactly for OOS students to get in?
Are these students “Ivy caliber”?
I am currently a fifth year. I am an MD Only, so I didn’t do the six year track. However, after living in some of the most dangerous places in the country (New Orleans pre and post Katrina) and the world, I find this:
To be patently ridiculous. I’ve spent a lot of time around the Volker Campus and have several friends who attend Law School there. I was never hassled by the “drug addicted” or “homeless people”. I don’t even recall seeing a homeless person on campus. There is the occasional crime that affects UMKC students (just as there was at my original undergrad institution that was also in an urban area). There is certainly not a band of roving homeless bandits that terrorize the campus at night. The campus has it’s own professional police force for crying out loud. The campus does border Troost, which is one of the rougher areas of the city. So, as with all things, street smarts should be utilized at night and in bad neighborhoods. Again, this isn’t unique to UMKC. At my original undergraduate institution, I personally knew of a handful of people that were mugged at knife or gunpoint. I two of them were shot (luckily they weren’t seroiusly injured). Being a college student at any urban campus makes you a target.
I also don’t know what you are talking about with accredidation problems. The LCME just concluded their routine accredidation visit in May. I was under the impression that nothing had been released yet. So unless you know something I don’t, I have no idea what you are referring too. I certainly haven’t heard any “buzz” from the faculty/attendings that the school is in any danger of being put on probation.
Since MD Only’s are the minority, I know all the 6 year students in my class. I have never had any problem with the 6 year students. They certainly don’t strike me as a bunch of MMA fighters that will bruise up anyone that does better than them. Certainly, every class has it’s own dynamic. My class has always worked together (i.e. sharing notes, charts, etc.) so not only have I never been “traumatized” or even hindered in my studies. In fact, it’s been the opposite. I won’t dispute your account of events, but I will say that if other six year students battered your room mate in anyway then he should have pressed charges. The profession doesn’t need physicians who have to resort to violence as a means of conflict resolution and I don’t want these guys on my team at some future date.
I also have never experienced or witnessed the “low self esteem” problem that you claim is festering here due to our vast feelings of inadequacy secondary to “U.S. News and World Report”'s ranking system. So in essence, you are claiming that all 6 year students are just settling for UMKC because they don’t think they could continue the academic acheivements they had in high school during college and get into another medical school? That makes no sense whatsoever. Even if it were true, then whose fault is it? No one made you all come to this program.
Also, as I understand it, you are a 1st year? Might it be a bit pre-mature to comment on the adequacy of the Basic Medical Science curriculum? You are basically taking pre-med classes.
I have some thoughts on Step 1, but I will save them for when I get my score back. I will say that many of my friends who have taken the exam in my class have done really, really well on it. So this notion that going to UMKC damns you to doing poorly on Step 1 is nonsense. Take some personal responsibility and realize that preparing yourself for boards is primarily your job. No one else can make you study for the exam. Welcome to prefessional school and a profession that demands a lifetime of learning.
Finally, having many other friends who have done the four + four route to Med School that I talk too, I realize that every med school has it’s strenths and weaknessess. UMKC certainly has it’s weaknesses. It also has it’s strengths. Too often, I feel that students fixate on the weaknesses and don’t realize all the advantages to the program (if you are interested in internal medicine, you’d be hard pressed to find another school that gives you six months of IM rotation time). Instead, they seem to adopt a “the grass is always greener” mentality that gives them a poor attitude that permeates everything they do.
HH, if you truly are that miserable here, I hope you transfer somewhere where you are happy and successful. I didn’t intend for this post to be as harsh as it probably came across.
However, I have some doubts about the veracity of your reporting on the situation. It certainly doesn’t mesh with the reality I see.
@ Allstar:
I don’t have any problem with someone giving the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I have a problem with someone putting out a bunch of hyperbole that appears to be, at best, 5% true.
Everyone who is interested in attending here deserves honest answers and full disclosure. That is a two way street which means they should be told a bunch of flowery BS and they also shouldn’t be told a bunch of negative non-sense.
Also, as someone who applied and interviewed at many other medical schools (and yes, I was accepted to other MD programs in the United States. I didn’t come to UMKC out of “desperation”.), I can tell you that all the schools I interviewed at gave the generic “We are at the national average for Step 1”. Unless schools do extraordinarily well on Step 1, they don’t release that number. Futhermore, it makes sense that most Medical Schools in the nation would be around the mean on their board scores.
I actually just left the program this spring, which was the second semester of Year 1 for me. I wish I would’ve known what I know now before wasting $30,000. The program just wasn’t for me. As a 17 year old, just graduating from high school, I definitely wasn’t ready to make such a big decision. I’m planning on going the traditional route, and I’m still at UMKC, but I’m considering transferring.
I know it’s been said before, but I just want to let everyone considering the program know that it’s no joke. You need to research it extensively before making your decision.You don’t get very much support and it’s not advisable that you work, which is a problem if you’re like me. Between classes, tutoring sessions, and study sessions, there really isn’t time to work and the financial issues really don’t help when you’re already stressed out as is. In addition to not being able to work, you don’t have very many opportunities for scholarships. Personally, I recieved a $10,000 scholarship from the school as well as a Pell grant…and that’s only half of what I needed…not to mention the cost of books etc.
They seemed more preoccupied with getting you through the program than whether or not you were actually LEARNING. I had to learn most of the stuff on my own…which is pretty bad considering the fact that they’re supposed to be preparing people to handle LIVES.
So like others have said before, make sure you know what you’re getting yourself into. Don’t let your family pressure you into doing something that you’ll regret and make sure you have a good reason for wanting to do the program besides saving 2 years and not having to take the MCAT because it’s just another standardized test, like the SAT/ACT and if you really think about it, 2 years really isn’t that long. Especially not when it comes to life experience.
For the record, I grew up 20 minutes outside of Kansas City and I didn’t realize until after I was in the program that most of the doctors that I encountered in the area who didn’t graduate from the program look down on graduates from the program because they consider them to be egotistic.
A sound post that lays out your reasoning without getting into absurdity. I respect that you were unhappy with the program and chose to go elsewhere as opposed to being too scared to jump ship and wallow in misery.
I fully agree that avoided the MCAT is a terrible reason for choosing any program. You can’t get around standardized tests in this profession and the MCAT is cake compared to Step 1.
Thanks and good luck to you.
Hi,
I am going to be a junior in a small private high school in st. louis, missouri. It offers some, but not all of the AP courses available at bigger high schools, but is still as challenging as any of them. I’m considering anything for pre med but being from st. louis i have a lot of DIFFERENT options. The most common path from someone in my position would be to attend pre med at SLU. Slu also has a med scholars program that finishes in 7 years and is much more competitive. I’m also considering UMKC’s 6 year Ba/Md program. I’ve heard this is hell, but my primary care doctor went there and says shed do it over again and has offered a letter of recommendation (which is a big one cause she holds high position in the medical community in st. louis). I could also go to wash u but thats doubtful just because of the difficulty of admission. I have a 3.9 (we don’t weight grades) and some of my EC’s are taking a summer course at St. Louis U called AIMS (adventures in medicine) and i plan on taking a different one next summer, varsity basketball (all 4 years), student ambassadors, student mentor, NHS, tutor with NHS, volunteer weekly at local hospital, future professionals in medicine club, FBLA, and recieved a geography award. I will take AP us history and AP chem next year (as a junior) and havent yet decided my senior year schedule (could take AP bio, AP geography, AP psych etc.). I would like to know your opinions on my chances of getting into any of these programs or others and if you have any suggestions on what to take or any other EC’s i could do (especially in the health field) i would really appreciate it. thanks
@the scunyon
I agree with you. i’ve lived in the most dangerous city in america my whole life (st. louis). I’ve never been in fear and i’ve been through the roughest neighborhoods in the country. People respect you if you respect them. There’s crime everywhere, thats a fact. and when i visited UMKC i came through ‘the hood’ to get there, but an environment like that will throw adversity your way and you’ll have the opportunity to serve people in a bad situation which i personally would love (maybe that’s just me). And if med students are beating other ones up thats obviously 1 in 1,000,000 and they aren’t there anymore. While i was at UMKC i saw med students off campus i the bad part of town walking around with no problem.
Um I’m applying to the 6 year BA/MD Program at UMKC ^^ I can’t seem to find the essay prompt anywhere though D: Also, for the essay, are they looking for creativity or seriousness? I’m aware it’s a Medical school, but maybe a little creativity can help!
I am a senior in high school looking to apply to a 6 year medical school in the northeast region. I am a B- student and got an 1800 on my SAT’s. I was wondering if you all can help me find a school with the program i’m looking for that you guys think I CAN GET INTO. So if you could please send me names of the schools i would greatly apreciate it.
I have to agree with this post, regarding an earlier posting about ‘probation’. This is simply not true, and it is unfortunate that such things are posted to be construed as ‘fact’, when in actuality it is far it. I am all for opinions: the positives to the harshest negatives (hopefully with constructive criticism in some cases though), but please try to keep the exaggerations to a minimum. 
I would also disagree with many of the other overstatements of that earlier post (e.g. crime, teaching quality, research, etc.), but that is for another time, perhaps. I can’t help but feel it was more of a personal dilemma or strife going on there in the underlying of those comments.
The current LCME process just wrapped up a few months back and the School is expected to receive the final results likely around October, and I’m sure will be announced shortly thereafter. The School has improved in most all areas since the last accreditation, and many of those areas are vast improvements that we’ve already received praise for from the Committee - informal as it may be and/or during the actual visit. The prognosis for a good review is very high. Along with many others, I also participated in this process and have great expectations and excitement for the final survey report.
In 2002, the School had its last accreditation and was awarded a full 8-year accreditation (the maximum that can be obtained, and the first year LCME began phasing in 8-year awards - previously it was 7). There are many schools out there that only will receive a 2-year extension or monitoring before being reviewed again for compliance standards.
The accreditation process starts nearly two years+ prior before the actual site visit, in regards to administrative preparation/information gathering, and in reality, much like a good web site, a school is always ‘under construction’ and self-surveying, preparing, and improving for the betterment of its students, faculty, and staff, which obviously will roll over into benefitting the next accreditation date(s) and deadline(s).
@The Scunyon
Well, just to repeat, I received an acceptance to the UMKC’s program, and I turned it down. I decided to go for undergrad at WashU in St. Louis. I also went through this entire thread before interviewing at UMKC, and scoped things out for myself.
People like lolamarie are lucky enough to get out early right after Year 1. @Lolamarie, I hope your GPA is still in the high range and that you apply and get into medical school the normal route. I just think it’s sad you had to learn the hard way from such a condensed program.
While I appreciate that you’re trying to help, Scunyon, your opinion really does not carry much water because you are an MD-only who enters the program 4 semesters later. In case you didn’t realize, everyone else here is applying for combined BA/MD and BS/MD programs as seniors in high school. By then, people in the BA/MD program have completed Fall & Spring of Year 1 and Summer & Fall of Year 2 and are trapped in the program.
You attended a university, with your summers off, and completed a Bachelor’s degree, took the MCAT, and then applied to medical school. Your circumstances are very different than for the rest of us who are applying to these specific types of programs. You made a bad decision to attend UMKC over Tulane and had to apply to D.O. schools (and yes, they ARE lower in comparison to MD schools when it comes to certain specialties). The fact that you’re now in denial is not our problem.
There are many residency programs missing at the UMKC School of Medicine: Neurology, Neurosurgery, Urology, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Radiation Oncology, Dermatology. For the ones that there are residency programs, you’ll see that they are missing fellowship programs, so their residents have to apply elsewhere to be able to get that training.
• Board scores for UMKC are lower when you compare them to other allopathic medical schools: Saint Louis University, UM-Columbia, and WashU. How do I know? Bc I asked.
• The UMKC professors, as a whole, are terrible in preparing students for their boards. How do I know? Bc I asked students before, during, and long after my interview about it.
• The tuition is ridiculously high with students taking loans out the wazoo, and very little financial aid.
• UMKC gets **** poor research funding in comparison to other places
•You don’t get to major in what you want, but what will fit into barely 5 semesters.
Realize the rest of us are high school seniors who are applying to these programs, for an easy, or easier, ticket into medical school. Many of these programs have an added benefit of less time than the usual 8 years, or make you skip the MCAT altogether. You have to know that for an 18 year old, these are very enticing benefits as why else would students commit to these medical schools early on? If these benefits didn’t exist, whether it’s less time, not taking the MCAT, or a guarantee, what else is left? The 2 main reasons people come to UMKC’s program are for 1) six years and 2) not taking the MCAT — everything else is secondary until it’s too late.
There are some BA/MD and BS/MD programs which are at very reputable medical schools – and those are also one of the hardest to get into – like requiring you to take and score well on 3 SAT II subject tests.
As I said in my post, which you quoted in your response, for some people this program is perfect, like for those who are going for primary care. I don’t know what I want to do 100%, although I’m leaning towards Rad Onc, but I also don’t want to limit myself from the beginning just bc my medical school doesn’t have it. I also know that if I do decide to do a primary care field, like Internal Medicine or Pediatrics, UMKC still sucks in their match list as there are TONS of other medical schools in which many students, not just a select few exceptions like at UMKC, that get into very good Internal Medicine or Pediatric residency programs.
@Christopher Boyce
Just so that we are all being honest and having full disclosure, you actually work for the UMKC School of Medicine correct? [Evaluation</a> and Computer Resources](<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/admin/sections/admindepts/ecr/ecr.html]Evaluation”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/admin/sections/admindepts/ecr/ecr.html). I mean, youre not actually a medical student in the program now or in the past are/were you? If this is the case, then how are you able to agree/disagree on the teaching quality and research?
Nice investigative work; however, it is not extremely difficult when I do not hide behind the anonymity of a forum handle to post my own, personal opinions and observations on a third-party web site. 
You lead with the phrase “Just so that we are all being honest…,” but unless non-misrepresented names and contact information are owned (and verified) by the people representing these posts, then most everything here could be considered dishonest, one would think. My name and (IM) contact information are clearly indicated and not misrepresented. Very simple to put the 2+2 together, as was the intention. Thank you.
As for my personal opinions, I am allowed to ‘agree/disagree’ on any topic I would like to; just as any person here. It is clear that no matter what the venue, there will be people that will offer up insight about whatever-the-discussion, irrelevant of association, experience, or substantiality, and that is okay. Everyone is entitled to that sort of act and/or speak.
In this case, I have my own based on my own interactions with many facets of the School, as well as friends that have been through the program - all with varying degrees of assessment, though mostly positive. I have not shared specifics about such opinions on this forum, other than I would likely disagree with some mentioned items and examples given based on the previous post. My response was intent to shore up the misleading post with reference to ‘probation’.
Is this school and associated particularities perfect? Of course not. None are, but all strive for improvement, regardless of the current state of affairs.
Good luck to each and everyone’s educational and personal endeavors.
[unable to append]
There is much good information here as there is not-so-good information. Wading through it all and the investigative and self-discovery process to make an informed decision, based on all of this, is admirable - as well it should be with any major life decision. My hat off to everybody who utilizes this resource looking for extra answers and detail that will just not be found by contacting a school directly, in order to simplify (used loosely) a decision. You obviously very much care about your education, and that is a wonderful thing.
I’m sorry if you were offended by my post, christopherboyce. My referencing “honest and having full disclosure” was in quoting TheScunyon as he had said it in his post: “Everyone who is interested in attending here deserves honest answers and full disclosure”. Hence CC’ers deserve full disclosure from you, as you happen to work for the UMKC School of Medicine. It really wasn’t any “investigative work” at all, after all, your first and last name make up your username.
This website is called College <strong><em>CONFIDENTIAL</em></strong> for a reason, mainly so we can hear info. confidentially without fear of retribution. I realize your intention was to say exactly who you are by name. I agree you are allowed to agree/disagree on any topic you would like to.
My intention was to point out that you actually have a HUGE conflict of interest, as UMKC is in fact your employer, whom you receive a paycheck from. Hence why your opinions on teaching quality and research at UMKC are relatively worthless (vs. an actual UMKC medical student’s opinion), as most would be hesitant to post any criticism, due to being labeled as badmouthing their employer on a public website. UMKC’s medical students aren’t employees of UMKC or the UMKC Med school, so we are likely to get a much more detailed and honest answer from them as they attend the school and don’t receive a paycheck from them.
With respect to probation: <a href=“http://www.aapsonline.org/judicial/truman.htm[/url]”>http://www.aapsonline.org/judicial/truman.htm</a>
“in the Spring of 1997 for which reason the Medical School was in danger of being placed on probation.” Yes, it’s now 2010, but it’s relevant for applicants now to know regardless.
@ Allstar
Good luck to you at WashU. My interest is not to try and convince people into going to UMKC, I only get annoyed when I see patently false information posted on here (i.e. the school is in danger of losing it’s accreditation and there are roving packs of bandits and vicious medical students beating up on the poor medical students). It’s absurd, and I feel the need to respond to it.
You are correct, I didn’t do the 6 year program, so I am not the best source for information on the “pre-med years”. I have never claimed otherwise. However, as I am now in my clerkship year, my opinion on the core medical instruction is entirely valid. You don’t have to accept it, but it’s not mere speculation.
As for Step 1, I am not sure who you got the magic “average score” from, and I am suspect that it is correct and/or current. The school doesn’t release that. Before anyone knocks UMKC for that, you should know that most schools don’t release that information. The few that do (i.e. UVa) are a rarity and are the ones that do well on step 1. Most schools simply say “we are at the national average” which makes sense if you think about it. You don’t have to believe me, but that was my experience after interviewing at several MD schools. Or you can to to studentdoctor.net and click on any one of the million threads on the subject matter. It’s irrelevant IMO anyways. Step 1 is an individual event. Your score will matter more on your own preparation and less on where you go to school. Again, you don’t have to believe that, but it’s the truth.
As for your comments to Mr. Boyce. He was responding directly to the absurd notion that the school is in accreditation trouble. As opposed to accusing him of a conflict of interest, why not address the things he actually said? Do you have any evidence that the last LCME visit was problematic for the school?
Finally, I found this:
to be a particularly obnoxious personal dig. Other than the “circumstances are very different comment” which I agree with, you have no clue about my “stats” and why I made the decisions that I made. UMKC wasn’t the only MD program I got into. Believe it or not, more goes into the decision making process of choosing a school than the U.S. News and World Report rankings list.
Again, good luck on your journey. Medical and personal.
bj,
The Volker campus doesn’t really strike me as being that dangerous. It’s close to the Paseo, but it seems as safe to me as any urban campus. As I said, at Tulane I had friends who were mugged and a few that were shot (all off campus). No one at the school was flipping out about the matter. We all just recognized that any urban environment has crime and college students make a particularly good target. Just use common sense, where ever you go.
A tremendous asset that UMKC has is being attached to Truman Medical Center. That’s where you will experience diversity and treating the under-served. I don’t think a lot of medical students realize how fortunate they are to be able to learn medicine in the “General Hospital” for a mid-sized urban population. The patients can be tough, but it’s a good place to learn medicine and see a lot of pathologies that you thought you would never be exposed to in pathology class. Since you do three internal medicine rotations (six months out of your total time in medical school), a student here really has no excuse not to come out of here with a good background in clinical medicine. The school’s mission (which it makes no bones about) is to educate students to be good clinicians, so if you aren’t interested in clinical medicine you should go elsewhere (or if you aren’t into clinical medicine and came here, you have no one to blame but yourself).
Finally (and again), the 6 year students (or the MD Onlys) don’t really strike me as the type of people that could/would rough up someone (especially over grades). I doubt we are getting the whole truth on that matter. However, if it did happen, I fault the victim for not reporting it and facilitating the removal of someone who clearly doesn’t have the temperament to practice medicine before they do something stupid to a patient.
My only real interest is on this thread is to keep things honest. Cheerleaders for the program are obnoxious. Equally obnoxious are people who only have bad things to say about it (especially if they are untrue). Are people unhappy with the program and leave? Sure. I respect that. That happens in every program/school regardless of what it is. Are there plenty of people who don’t have a problem and decide to stay? Sure. They are my peers.
I’ve got to say, I really don’t see the “I am trapped at UMKC” mentality among the 6 year students in my class.
Scunyon - just curious, when were these shootings of Tulane students?
@ chemist:
It would have been in the 1998-2000 time frame. One was a Loyola student who got mugged off campus and the mugger shot them in the foot as they were fleeing. Another was a student who got hit be a .22 round in the hand when Snake and Jakes got robbed.
Both off campus and neither of them were seriously hurt, just two incidents that I know of off the top of my head.
On another note, both of these were uptown by the main campus. The medical school is downtown.