I just recently applied to the 6 year school of medicine; I am out of state; since I applied before October 15, when will I know if I am eligible to have an interview with the school’s council of selection?
rummi: I am an out of state applicant, when did you find out when your interview was?
when are apps due?
wooo i haven’t been here forever. currently a 5th year in the med program, feel free to ask any questions.
and to the guy that said board scores are low for umkc - it’s low bc people don’t study. it’s not like you magically get a higher score if you go to harvard. you’re gonna need to work hard either way, i know PLENTY of people who scored 240+/99 (gets you into derm/platics/whatever). it’s all about how much effort you put into it. if you’re the kind of person that expects to learn everything from class and not do any self studying, you probably shouldn’t even do medicine.
Otacon88, UMKC’s board score average is low, and has been low over several years, in comparison to other Missouri medical schools, PERIOD. This is even after students at UMKC having the advantage of getting nearly 12 months to study for boards and after taking Kaplan prep classes (which students at other schools don’t even have the time off to take). I never said if you go to Harvard or another Ivy League, you magically get a high boards score, so quit putting words in my mouth. The basic science currriculum at UMKC is condensed, accelerated, and poor in comparison to other medical schools and your undergrad science classes (the few that you take) are in the same caliber, which is to be expected as UMKC is rated to be a Tier 3 school.
Also, UMKC’s crappy match lists speak for themselves, which anyone can see as they are posted somewhere in this thread, so while some of your UMKC’s board scores may be “240+/99”, there is hardly anyone matching from UMKC into something as competitive as Plastics or Derm. Your school doesn’t even have a Plastics or Derm department to begin with.
Allstar:
Where are you getting UMKC’s average board score number from (or Mizzou’s for that matter) to compare the numbers?
As I’ve said over and over and over, most med schools don’t release their average board score number. The ones that do (i.e. UVa) are the exception and not the rule.
Furthermore, what about UMKC’s match list is “crappy”? I am confused as to what you consider “good” versus “crappy”. Here are the match list for 2010 and 2009.
[Match</a> Day 2010](<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/features/match_list.html]Match”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/features/match_list.html)
[UMKC</a> School of Medicine](<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/features/match09.html]UMKC”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/features/match09.html)
BTW, to put to rest a common misconception I’ve heard on this thread: the majority of UMKC students don’t take a Kaplan course for step 1. You certainly don’t have to take a Kaplan course to do well on boards. As was noted above, boards are an individual event. Also, you don’t have a “study year”. In the year or so when you complete the basic medical science course work and sit for boards, you will be on clinical rotations for about half of that time and then campus semester (if you are a 6 year) or electives (if you are an MD only).
Although my post wasn’t directed at you (if you see my post), I’ll answer you, TheScumyon. Otacon88 even said, “and to the guy that said board scores are low for umkc - it’s low bc [insert excuse here]” So is Otacon88, who attends UMKC, lying as well?
I have ASKED actual medical school people (not students) through admissions whether at Mizzou, SLU, WashU, or anywhere else. Maybe you didn’t get the answers to your questions (being a D.O. applicant, they might not have taken any of your questions seriously), but I did. That’s how I know the actual board score averages, not just the percentage passed like you did. It’s a perfectly valid question. Is that any clearer to you? Or do I have to explain further? Are you making the assertion that UMKC’s board score average is the same or at par with SLU or WashU or other actual ranked medical schools?
Yes, when you compare match lists of UMKC (which is missing quite a few competitive residency programs) versus other actually ranked medical schools: competitive vs. non-competitive fields, specialty vs. primary care, location of the actual residency programs, university vs. community programs, UMKC’s lists are crappier (your “confusion” is expected, especially from a D.O. applicant). I am talking about the trend/rule, not the pipe dream exception. I doubt anyone wants to fork over 200,000-300,000 dollars for a pipe dream exception.
You can take the time to sift through the forum thread yourself to find all the match lists, instead of being deceptive and only posting the ones from 2009 and 2010. I realize you have to be a constant cheerleader for the school no matter what, but when you try to question every point made or make excuses for it, it makes you look silly.
Just bc you didn’t take a Kaplan class (also expected), doesn’t mean the rest of your classmates (BA/MD students) didn’t. Most of the basic sciences for Step 1 are completed in Year 2 and 3. The only basic science courses you have left in Year 4 of the program is Pharmacology which is 2 months & Behavioral Science which is 1 month.
<a href=“http://www.sfa.umkc.edu/majormaps/maps/2010-2011/MED/UMKC_Major_map_basic_MD_info_with_BLA.pdf[/url]”>http://www.sfa.umkc.edu/majormaps/maps/2010-2011/MED/UMKC_Major_map_basic_MD_info_with_BLA.pdf</a>
Quit trying to equate your experience as a MD-only with the six year BA/MD students. You’re not of them.
<a href=“being%20a%20D.O.%20applicant,%20they%20might%20not%20have%20taken%20any%20of%20your%20questions%20seriously”>QUOTE</a>
[/QUOTE]
<a href=“your%20%22confusion%22%20is%20expected,%20especially%20from%20a%20D.O.%20applicant”>QUOTE</a>.
[/QUOTE]
This can’t be serious. -.-
Allstar - what would I be lying about? you’re the one who said umkc boards scores are low, not me. and do you consider a “good” match list to be ppl who either match in derm or plastics?
and there are so many factors that go into why ppl choose their fields, just bc there are more int med at umkc doesn’t mean ppl who want to do other things can’t get it. fyi - umkc is geared towards internal medicine, hence why we start so early with out clinicals, so more ppl will be engaged to go into that.
and ps - i didn’t take a kaplan course for step 1 and i did very well. so what’s your point?
“Scumyon”? Was that a typo? If not, what is your problem, kid? Your question might not have been directed at me, but (as I said) my interest is only in seeing that the actual truth is posted on here (and not falsehoods or a bunch of cheerleading which helps no one). Since I go to UMKC SOM, I have a vested interest in filling classes with well informed candidates.
Whomever Otacon88 is (a classmate unknown to me); they said scores are low because people don’t study. That’s the truth. Step 1 is about individual motivation. The more you study, the better you do. It’s basically that simply.
However, I am sure you know much better than people who have actually taken Step 1 and are on clinical rotations.
Really? Then you have some quantitative numbers to post here? What was UMKC’s average board score for the last couple of years or so? What about Mizzou, WashU, and SLU?
Frankly, I have my doubts that any medical school that does not officially release their board numbers decided to go ahead and confide such information to a high school student.
Don’t take my word for it:
[USMLE</a> Scores and Competitiveness for Residencies](<a href=“http://www.studentdoc.com/usmle-scores.html]USMLE”>USMLE Scores and Competitiveness for Residencies - StudentDoc)
However, feel free to post whatever numbers you have (and please be honest with the number and also the year from which it was calculated). Just know that if the school didn’t actually release that number, I will continue to be somewhat dubious of your claims.
Now you are just starting to look comical and immature. Are you one of those people that goes into a rage and starts tossing out insults when someone dares to question you? If so, medicine is absolutely the wrong field for you.
I won’t even entertain your idiotic comment about “being a D.O. applicant”. Though anyone that has actually been through the medical school application process will find it as amusing as I did.
I never claimed to know the “percentage passed”. I don’t have a hard and fast number for that.
I agree, and I think that schools should be required to give the information out to applicants. However, that is not the reality and UMKC is hardly the only school that does not release average board scores.
You don’t have to explain anything. I’ve always understood your point (don’t kid yourself that you are that sharp and the rest of the world is that dull). I have just doubted the veracity of your statements.
I doubt many med schools have as high of board scores as WashU SOM as there is a direct correlation between MCAT scores and board scores and WashU has one of the highest MCAT averages for admission in the country (good luck on your MCAT, btw).
As for Mizzou and SLU, I have no idea as I don’t have any quantitative data to make an absolute statement about Step 1 performance.
So what? Even if UMKC doesn’t have a “plastics” or “derm” (as if 98% of medical students don’t go into those fields anyways) department, the best that any school can offer from having those departments is an elective. There is an reason that those two fields are not required clerkships by the LCME (and if you think really hard about it, you can probably figure it out too). Pick up the MSAR and see what fields most med students actually go into.
At WashU (as of 2001,02, and 03 per the 2007-20018 MSAR), the top choice of medical students was Internal Medicine (17%) and Pediatrics (16%).
My goodness, 1/3 of WashU SOM students went into Primary Care!
Once again, your posts seem long on personal opinion and short on quantitative fact.
Furthermore, you assume that every medical student wants to do plastics or dermatology. I would rather suck on a .38 than do either of those things with my medical degree. Believe it or not, many medical students are in medical school to actually treat patients and not to try and get into the best lifestyle/paycheck niche.
UMKC exists to create primary care doctors. That is it’s mission and it doesn’t try to hide that fact. So, if you aren’t interested in primary care (even if only while in medical school), then obviously this place is not for you.
No, I’ve never been a “cheerleader”. I’d be happy to list what I think UMKC’s strengths and weaknesses are if you’d ever have asked me.
I find it strange that you would consider the fact that I listed the last two years match list as “deceptive”. Did you want me to list the last ten match lists? Would it have mattered? You obviously didn’t click on the links and offer any substantive analysis of why the match list was sub-par.
And simply because you claim that “the rest of the BA/MD” students did take the Kaplan course also does not make it so. My opinion is anecdotal, but the class is small and tight, and I know that only handful of people took the Kaplan course.
It’s irrelevant anyways. The larger statement that “If you go to UMKC you have to take a Kaplan course to pass/do well on Step 1” is absolutely false.
</a>
I am well aware of the basic science schedule as I am in the program and have taken all of these courses. Thanks for the information (and whatever your point was).
However, since you have broached “condensed” basic medical science curriculum issue, you should know that medical schools have a lot of latitude to teach the basic medical sciences (not so much with clerkships) and most schools have their own formula that they swear by.
I think UMKC could do a better job with the basic medical sciences, however, I don’t feel the school does an “awful” job of teaching basic medical science or even that the education is “sub-par”. As far as clinical medical education goes, I think UMKC is head and shoulders above most other schools, and I could care less what U.S. News and World Report says about the matter. When you look at how USN&WR ranks anything you start to realize that their rubric is a little bit silly (i.e. alumni donations, etc).
At any rate, since you seem to be hung up on the fact that UMKC is awful because it condenses its BME classes, you should know that Duke SOM crams all of its basic medical science education classes into a single year (No, I am not saying that UMKC is on par with Duke, just making the point).
If and when you get to medical school, regardless of the institution, you will be amazed at how much information you are expected to gain on your own. That is the difference between graduate and undergraduate education. As an undergrad, you will have professors who hold your hand and wipe your nose for you. As a graduate, it is expected that you have enough initiative to teach yourself and fill in the holes you think you have in your education.
If you think you are going to show up at any medical school and chance upon a secret, “magical formula” that such a school has for teaching the basics of medical education, you are going to be sorely disappointed.
No doubt. As I said earlier: “I can only comment on the Medical School part of the education” and you will notice that I steer clear of the particulars of the process that I did not personally experience.
You should also take your advice to heart. You choose to go to WashU and do the traditional 4+4 path at WashU. You are also “not of them” (a UMKC BA/MD student). Regardless of your opinion, the school continued to fill a class and the majority of that class will go on to be physicians. At this point, your medical career basically consists of deciding not to go to UMKC.
Who knows? You may decide (like most of my pre-med friends did) that medicine is not for you and do something else. At any rate, whatever you do, your time is better spent focusing on what you need to do to succeed at whatever you choose to do with your life as opposed to acting like a child on an internet message board.
If you do decide to go into medicine, I hope your four years in college allows you the personal growth and maturity that the field demands. Otherwise, it will be a rocky road for you no matter where you go.
@ Sophie:
I am afraid it is.
Don’t be too hard on him. When I was 18, I knew everything too. Then I turned 25 and was amazed at how much I had forgotten*.
*Apologies to Mr. Twain.
Otacon:
When you look at the numbers (really look at the numbers: I.E. the MSAR), UMKC’s match percentage is about the same as over other medical school (considering that we have a national match program, this is completely shocking! /sarcasm).
Most schools range in the mid teens range for internal medicine (though the Ivy League schools tend to have percentages in the mid to high 20% range).
Allstair doesn’t really know what in the hell he is talking about.
BTW, we are obviously classmates. I don’t know who you are, but I am the crusty Afghanistan Veteran guy.
It’s typical pre med behavior. They think that just because they heard that D.O.'s were inferior from their cousin’s brother’s stepdad, it makes it a fact. I’m actually younger than that poster, and even I think it’s pretentious (borderline tasteless) to even insult their colleagues like that. Do you know what REALLY isn’t a doctor - a kid who doesn’t get into med school.
@ Sophie:
His colleagues are other students in their first semester of college so take it for what it is worth.
The nice thing about being in medical school (regardless of location or the two letters behind your name) is that every second you waste worrying about someone else is a second you didn’t devote to your own professional growth.
I didn’t say you were lying, Otacon88, in fact, I was saying that you agreed with me, although probably inadvertently on your part. If you had properly read what I posted you would see that the question was directed to TheScunyon. I’ll repost what I said,
which was in response to:
Also, Otacon88, I never said that a match list without a Derm and Plastics match are not good. You said you “know PLENTY of people who scored 240+/99 (gets you into derm/platics/whatever).” I was saying that statement is a silly statement bc UMKC does not have a Derm dept. or a Plastics dept.
So Allstar:
About those magic Step 1 averages for all the Med Schools in Missouri that you magically have possession of.
Do you plan on posting those numbers anytime soon?
I’m not sure why this school is continually being slammed for having low USMLE scores. Why would we expect the scores to be high or even above average? It’s a school that takes mainly high school kids and not even the best high school kids at that. Even if it had the greatest teaching in the world, with the quality of students it has (no offense to anyone there), the USMLE scores would still not be above average.
Anyone who has taken the USMLE knows that the biggest determinant of your score is yourself. It’s not the quality of the teaching. The USMLE covers less than 70% of what’s typically taught in the first two years. This means you can fail to cover 30% of what other med schools cover and still teach your students enough to do well on the test. My graduating class had the highest average USMLE score of any graduating class in my school’s history and 12 points (that’s right, 12 points) higher than the previous year’s average. Part of it has to do with just regular variation from year to year. Part of it has to do with the fact we had the highest average GPA and MCAT score in the school’s history. The teaching certainly didn’t change in 1 year. But, the quality of the entering class and the attitude of the students (the administrators all agree that we are some of the most neurotic and obsessive students they’ve ever seen) certainly did.
I’ve been reading this thread for awhile out of amusement. All this garbage about your med school determining your USMLE results and match list makes me laugh. It can’t possibly be written by a med student because it simply isn’t true. If you’re a school that takes high school kids with an average ACT score of 29-30, why would you expect these kids to turn out into med students that produce 220-230+ USMLE scores?
There are some assertions I agree and disagree with on both sides of the aisle, which I will address both later today/this weekend, when I’m not in between intubations. I graduated from the BA/MD program back in 2009 (for those who will ask again even though I’ve posted it several times, I went into Anesthesiology).
I’ll admit though Norcalguy’s comment is quite harsh and made me laugh (but possibly true): “It’s a school that takes mainly high school kids and not even the best high school kids at that. Even if it had the greatest teaching in the world, with the quality of students it has (no offense to anyone there), the USMLE scores would still not be above average.” His comment really isn’t that much different from AllStar2010’s, which is that UMKC puts out low Step 1 board scores (on average).
What is the point of me posting it, when you’ve “said over and over and over, most med schools don’t release their average board score number. The ones that do (i.e. UVa) are the exception and not the rule”? For your appreciation? Please. Give me a break.
You’re already convinced of this lie, so no matter what I post, you would call it fake and brand me a liar, or that I “magically have possession of” it, as if there is no way to get that information. Yes, it may not be officially released in a newsletter, school website, etc., but there is a way to get the information if you indeed are intent in finding the answer. Applicants or their parents ask questions and if worded properly you can get the correct answer. You seem to be hiding behind the shield of schools don’t officially release it, so no one can get it and anyone who says they have that info is to be doubted.
As I said before I thoroughly vetted the program inside and out by talking to students, going through CC, telephoning, email both during and before/after interview time. I even applied myself and was received an acceptance to the program. I chose not to go to such a low-caliber program (norcalguy said the same). I must say Scunyon, you seem to take critique of UMKC quite personally.
Allstar:
Not for my appreciation, but to see if you had something beyond hearsay to support your claims. It’s okay, I suspected your answer would be something along those lines.
The last official number I saw for the school and Step 1 was from 2001 or so and it was lower than the national average. In the past decade, the school has taken steps to try and remedy that. Whether that was successful or not, I don’t know. I don’t know how UMKC stacks up against other schools or the national average (nor have I ever claimed too) since that information isn’t released (by most schools). Considering the blatant false information that is tossed around on this thread (i.e. “the school is about to lose its accreditation!”), I am only interested in seeing that such information is not perpetuated. Again, I think schools should be required to disclose such information. However, I don’t make the rules.
At any rate, I realize that Step 1 scores are a source of anxiety for people who haven’t taken it yet. For those of us who have, I think the consensus is that how you do on Step 1 is influenced more by individual work ethic and less by what institution you attend. Friendly advice you can take with you down the road.
I am glad you did your homework and made the decision that was right for you. Again, I wish you the best, and I am not being facetious.
I don’t take much of anything personally, certainly not internet forums. Once again, I’ve stated the school has things I think it does right and things I think it does wrong or could do better. I only get annoyed when critiques go from being serious to silly.