UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program

@Johnny H, yes, conveniently in that article, they don’t mention the percentage of students who extend their time in the program and pay extra tuition beyond the 6 years to get their MD (definitely sucks, if you’re out-of-state). They don’t count towards the attrition rate, obviously.

I think it’s natural to think coming in Year 1, that 80-90% will make it through, since the entire school is built on a BA/MD model, and no normal med school with a 20% attrition rate would ever survive accreditation. The attrition/extension rate tends to not be talked about as much in general, as even just extending in the program carries with it a big stigma and opportunity for gossip, unfortunately.

@Roentgen, I recommend you check out these couple of websites listed below for the good of your health and lifestyle. You clearly have no regard for people’s opinions or their well-being and would rather continue insulting UMKC on its own forum. Maybe you have forgotten, but there are about 110 students a year who attend this program and you are insulting every single one of them with your harsh words. This is my school now and I will continue to back them for the remainder of my six years and I will always recommend it to anyone who wants to be a doctor. Also, I will be sure to let you know of my “progress” at UMKC and success so you can add those to the fancy novel you are currently writing on “1,000,000 Reasons Not to Attend the UMKC 6 Year Med Program”.
<a href=“http://health.usnews.com/doctors/psychiatrists”>http://health.usnews.com/doctors/psychiatrists&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“Antisocial personality disorder - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic”>Antisocial personality disorder - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic;

Kid, you got to be kidding me. Given that @Roentgen is a successful alum, I think it is a great viewpoint as oppose to the others who “always recommend” something for the sake of self-validation and perceived loyalty. That would be irresponsible.

@Johnny H, don’t worry, I’m definitely not personally offended by him. He reminds me so much of the “gunners” in med school. <a href=“Google”>Google;

When you mentioned about Organic Chem at UMKC being a handicap (it was obvious what you meant), he completely missed what you were getting at. He misinterpreted your statement as to what he WANTED to believe. His attack on any stated or perceived deficiency is always one of two things: 1) it doesn’t apply specifically to him, or 2) it’s not really a deficiency to begin with.

His entire post was nearly all about him:
I will be coming in with exactly 100 transferrable credit hours”
I am doing the BA in biology”
I COULD be taking as little as 12-15 hours”
I think that UMKC is an amazing option”
“In my case, I can certainly say that I have done that.”
I have completely finished my first two years of undergrad coursework”
I would be only 20 credits away from graduation”
I might just decide to go easy on the courseload and spend a lot more time doing research and studying USMLE topics”

It was all subtle/outright bragging, revolving solely around him. Before he goes around diagnosing others with Mayo Clinic websites, he might want to peruse this: <a href=“Narcissistic personality disorder - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic”>Narcissistic personality disorder - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic.

He’s already stated he’s out-of-state (Florida), his parents are UMKC alums (one of them being a GI specialist). He stated from the very beginning that “I love Kansas City and its my dream to go to this school.” His family and he believe that UMKC’s med school is worth shelling out: $328,612+ for tuition, $397,039+ with room and board. There are families out there for whom money is no object, and some things are worth it, no matter what the price tag. All the more power to them.

I’m still not understanding why @PursuitToExcel continues to believe that I’m talking specifically about him and his individual situation. He was already 100% convinced from the beginning of where he wanted to go. @PursuitToExcel, please point out WHERE I specifically attack the 110 students themselves, who have yet to matriculate. Don’t just throw false accusations. Most of your class are bright, smart, hardworking students with nearly everyone coming in with some type of credit. Quit taking all things as a reflection on you personally.

I’m doing quite well for myself in my chosen specialty. I have absolutely no reason to be “disgruntled”. Newsflash: The rest of the applicant pool is not YOU, is not in your individual situation, and does not have the same values as you. Try to think outside of your protected bubble. These discussion forum threads are not cheerleading pep rallies. You are absolutely free even before you’ve entered the program, to continue “for the remainder of my six years and I will always recommend it to anyone who wants to be a doctor” - no one is stopping u. You’re not that important to me<a href=“and%20I%20definitely%20shouldn’t%20be%20that%20important%20to%20you”>/u</a> to periodically apprise me of your “progress at UMKC and success”, as I’m not the one paying your bills.

The reason College Confidential was created is that schools are not all forthright about all aspects of their institutions. It’s a great resource to talk with other applicants, students, former alumni, etc. confidentially. It’s a great resource for those families with children who are hard-working, dedicated, and want value but who may not have the soft connections or networks. Part of the problem is that parents (esp. those that aren’t physicians) and their children don’t necessarily know what questions to ask beforehand to evaluate the program. CC helps in asking those questions and getting those answers.

Applicants and their parents have the full right to thoroughly with a magnifying glass go thru ALL aspects of the program: cost (esp. since there is not much real scholarship support that makes a difference and can be financially devastating if you don’t complete the program), curriculum, how well courses are taught, average board score/passing rate, quality of rotations, % attrition, % who extend in the in the program, trends in where people match, what specialties and institutions they match into. All of these questions have to be asked and answered bc the undergrad part and med school part are not clearly separated, and you are effectively locked in. If you don’t like my answers, then find a way to deal with it, grow up and get a thicker skin.

@Roentgen, I think other students in my class would agree with me that your comments are harsh and they would rather not hear them. I have had many people, including college admission people, tell me to stay away from the college confidential forums. I am not on here for myself, I have nothing to gain from telling you about my accomplishments. After all, I dont even know any of your in real life and I could care less what anyone on this forum thinks of me. I am on here to defend this program because it is truly a good fit for many students in this country (NOT ONLY ME). For example, I think IMGDAD’s son would be a perfect fit for this program. Also, the classmates I have talked to so far seem to all be confident in their choice to come to UMKC and I doubt they want to hear from someone like you about how many reasons why UMKC is a bad medical school. After all, if someone is in medical school, that is an accomplishment alone. There is always going to be something “better” to obtain and people who are never satisfied with themselves and are narcissistic continue to do things only for “prestige” and “namesake”. Someone could get into Harvard, go to Harvard med school, and then match in some super competitive speciality at Johns Hopkins and still end up depressed despite all of that success. College confidential is basically the back-alley way to analyze colleges by taking advice from unqualified people who don’t have names. If someone wanted to, they could create an account with the name “Roentgen” and “claim” to be a graduate of UMKC and convince people of whatever they want. I am not saying that you are, but that is just an example of how informal the information on this whole site is. Any resident who spends time dissecting word by word what people say on some internet forum for high school students entering college is not sane. If you didn’t care about arguing with me then you would just stop arguing like a mature “doctor”. You should not be letting some random high school student waste your time. I bet that the two posts you just posted consumed at least 30 minutes of your time. Judging by how you had to extract that information from many of my previous posts and looking up exact prices of tuition and all of the other things you have posted that aren’t actually helping anyone. After all, I highly doubt that anyone who is basing their college decisions off what people say on this site. If they are, then that is pretty sad… Before you think about responding to this post with another 5 paragraph essay about how you are right and how I am wrong and analyzing every word I say, think about what other things you could be doing with your time that could better serve your life, please… I would honestly like this discussion to end. This will be my last post on here and now this site has no further use to me.

@Roentgen, FYI I am blocking you as a user so I’m even less tempted to come back on here AND I am never coming back on this site again. So don’t bother responding to this post.

One more last thing to add. I dont know specifically what everyone else’s situations are so the only example I can use is myself. However, I know that many other students in this program are in similar situations to me and they will also be coming in with quite a bit of college credit. In reality, someone only needs 30-40 hours of incoming college credit to exempt out of many of the undergraduate requirements on the major map (if they correlate). My point behind this is, its mostly in the student’s hands. Also, it helps someone evaluate their situation to determine whether or not the program is a good idea. For example, if someone else reads my post and has already had the info from General Bio 1&2 (AP students), then they don’t have to worry as much about missing out on important information in that class. Most people on college confidential are always posting their stats, accomplishments, etc. These details are either provided to 1) ask someone to chance them, or 2) refute an argument by providing an exception to the rule. Providing an exception to the rule does not mean that it doesn’t apply to a larger sample of people. In fact, the whole point of providing an exception is to make the assumption that if a couple of people did something, its likely that others have as well. And no I’m not a gunner, I am a team player and I love lending advice and help to others when they need it. I’m also not trying to be a doctor to be “successful” or “make money”, I’m doing it because it will enable me to have an impact on people’s lives. If I just wanted to be successful or make money, I wouldn’t go into medicine. Because a narcissist is not going to survive 6-8 years of med school, and then 3+ years of residency, and then work the rest of their lives treating people’s health. Becoming a doctor requires compassion and empathy for others and that is something UMKC looks for in its applicants in the first place. Unlike many other programs who will accept someone because they did 1000 hours of research, 2400 SAT, and has a perfect GPA. It is flat out ignorant to call someone a narcissist without knowing anything about who they are or what they have done. But I am not the least bit offended. I don’t know why I let any of these comments bother me. Maybe its because I’m seeing students (my future classmates) swayed away from this program who may have been a very good fit for it. Right now, I am not even sure UMKC SOM has a full class for the fall.

@PursuitToExcel, No one here has said this program is not a good fit for anyone. That doesn’t make a lick of sense bc we all do not have the same specialty career goals. The goal of UMKC’s medical school is to train a certain type of physician to treat the healthcare needs of Missourians and is funded by local state taxpayers and is accountable to them. All MD schools in the US give you the tools you need to succeed as a practicing clinician. UMKC doesn’t put you so far ahead of the pack clinically, when the real learning takes place in residency, where nearly everyone catches up.

All med schools screen for empathy and compassion in their applicants - that’s why they interview. Schools with BS/MD programs such as Baylor, NW, UPitt, Case, PennState/Jefferson, etc. can also be even pickier and choose applicants who not only have empathy and compassion, but also do very well on standardized tests and have accomplished great things on their CV beyond your typical student. These high achieving, stellar students are captured early on, when they could have easily gone somewhere else. That doesn’t reflect at all on a student that chooses to go to UMKC.

If you’re interested in a “competitive” specialty, then you will need to be more than just a good clinician. Some schools have these resources/opportunities available on site, and some don’t. The main difference here is cost, strength of research opportunities, and resources available to successfully match into the more competitive, and hard to get specialties. The resources needed to match into Family Medicine are very different than the resources needed to match into Radiation Oncology.

Much of your posts have either misinformation/omission of information, along with the usual name-calling and accusing, although you kept it to a minimum this time. There are tons of alumni and current students on CC so saying that it’s advice from those who are “unqualified” is stupid on your part. Whether you believe who I am or not, I don’t care. There are students here like @illinois1234 or @docstudent, who have several acceptances at hand and CC helps in the decision making process. It’s not the sole contributor to anyone’s decision making process.

You don’t get to judge “fit” for anyone. They and their families judge it for themselves. You’re not that important. To add up tuition all you need is this and a calculator: <a href=“http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/finance/”>http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/finance/&lt;/a&gt;, takes less than a minute. I’m pretty sure knowing how much things cost is “actually helping anyone”. Unlike yourself, other American families need to know how much money they have to shell out, they don’t have the luxury that you do, of not considering cost in their decisions.

There are tons of professions out there in which you can have an impact on people’s lives, not just medicine. Even PAs and NPs have an impact on people’s lives in medicine in which you can live a relatively good life. But don’t try to sit on your soapbox as someone who has already decided as an 18 yr old to pursue Neurosurgery (which just coincidentally happens to be a high paying specialty), and lecture about how you’re only doing it bc you’re a caring person who wants to make a difference.

@Roentgen, I didn’t want to comment again on this forum, but after your last completely misinformed comment, I could not help it. I have a personal reason for wanting to pursue neurosurgery and it stems from a personal experience with a family member. Anyways, I shouldn’t have to reveal to you WHY I want to pursue neurosurgery because I can assure you it is NOT for the money. Neurosurgeons work very long hours for the money they make and they also have to go through a miserable 7 year residency in which they often end up working 110+ hours (beyond the 80 our limit). Also, if I just wanted to make money then I would be interested in a field with a shorter residency and one that works less hours and is an overall less stressful profession such as dermatology or radiation oncology. Historically, neurosurgery is not one of the specialties that people typically go into just for the “money”. There are plenty of other specialities more than the couple I mentioned that can make more than neurosurgeons, and work much less. But I actually do agree with a lot that you said in your first few paragraphs. If someone has other options like Case Western or Brown or Northwestern, etc, then it would be perfectly logical to take those options over UMKC. Honestly, I would take one of those programs over UMKC. However, I would not recommend to someone to choose some not guaranteed 8 year program that is at another lower ranked institution over UMKC. Neither would I suggest that someone chooses a school in grenada or a DO program over UMKC. So if you could please stop responding to me and making personal insults then I would appreciate it. I really do not want to have to comment on this forum again. YOU WIN! happy? I will no longer interfere with the advice you are giving people. Just please don’t continue making false claims about me such as “im a narcissist” or “I want to be a neurosurgeon for the money”. FYI, less than 1% of the US population is narcissistic and that is one of the most commonly over exaggerated personality disorders. A lot of people who are very hard working and driven get falsely accused of being “narcissistic” and its often because people don’t understand their true intentions. There’s one thing that I know this forum is NOT for, and that’s personal matters… So if you have another comment directed at me, I would prefer that you messaged me rather than post here.

Are people really enforcing the 80 hr limit?

@Johnny H, depends on the specialty. It’s ACGME rules that the 80 hr. work week be followed, but in reality, it’s up to the program itself to enforce it.

Guys, guys; did anybody got off the waitlist at UMKC yet ?

My D got in

@luck99, congrats. No good news for my son!

Thank you IMGDAD. Wait for a couple of days. Your son has a better choce. Could you do a comparation between UMKC and Penn state 6 year program? Kind of regretted my daughter didn’t apply to Penn state.

My son did not apply to the Penn State program. His acceptance is with the USciences/TCMC. Yes, if the choice is between Penn State/Jefferson and UMKC, the former is probably better.

My D got in today 5/2.

@MOSTL1, ?in-state

@IMGDAD, from inState. But My D will not go for sure.

@MOSTL1, so where is she going? I presume she has a better option. Good luck.