UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program

@spmo96,
The people who I knew were “transfers” fit into 2 categories:

  1. out-of-staters who went to very good, higher ranked universities
  2. in-staters who attended UMKC as a freshman undergrad and took many of the same classes that we did.

Those in 1) and 2) were usually people who initially applied as high schoolers and didn’t get into the 6 year program initially. Once they applied and if they got in, their credits transferred and those were 2), transferred their credits and their GPAs as well.

You can look here: <a href=“http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/admission-requirements-eligiblity/”>http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/admission-requirements-eligiblity/&lt;/a&gt; under “Additional Requirements for Current College Students”

Is it possible for student to take a year leave and do research at a different school?

@Roentgen‌ Thank you! I really hope I will be able to have a chance if I decide to apply even though I will be going to SLU in the fall.

@luck99‌, hopefully I’m understanding your question correctly, but anyone can take an approved 1 year leave of absence from medical school to do research somewhere else. Whether that will help you when it comes to the residency match is another story - as there are many other variables that come into play. It’s not a silver bullet, it’s just one part of the puzzle. Obviously, the best route is to go to a med school that has available research in that specialty, so you can be involved in research throughout your years in medical school.

If one candidate has been involved in research in an area throughout his medical school education and another person has been involved in research in an area for only one year, with everything else being equal (which it rarely ever is), then naturally they will select the first candidate.

@spmo96, if you are interested in transfer, you may want to ask the UMKC med school admissions office, respectfully, why you were denied admission. You can then try to improve on your weaknesses if it’s something you can control - i.e. lack of meaningful extracurriculars. If on the other hand it was due to high school GPA & standardized test scores, then you can’t control that, and so it’s best to try to attain a good undergraduate GPA while continuing to be involved in activities. Apply again during the fall, and let the chips land where they may.

SLU also has the Medical Scholars Program, so you may want to find out if there is a possibility to transfer into that program as well.

Thank you roentgen. That’s good to know. It will give her a lot of freedom to do research.
I donot know which specialty she will chose. She might pick one existing in umkc.

@Roentgen‌ - Thank You for reply to earlier post.

Hoping that collective wisdom can help. My niece was wait listed and got accepted into the 6 yr. program. They would be considered out-of-state for UMKC. She was also accepted to an in-state 7 year DO program with Rutgers/Rowan. Some of the things she is looking at:

For UMKC - 6 years; No MCAT, MD degree; Lower GPA (2.8) requirement, Residency Match 90+%, 1K miles away

For Rutgers - Less tuition by $180K, DO degree, Close to home, Academic Calendar not as busy as UMKC - so potentially have a summers to do something else (research, etc.), Have to take MCAT but need to get 28, Maintain 3.5 GPA, Residency Match 95%+

Neither school will share their average USMLE scores.
Both schools match list shows decent residency placement for both programs.
Unclear on how either school helps with board (USMLE) prep. if at all.

Any words of wisdom that would help with decision would be greatly appreciated.

Hey @collegebills,

First, for UMKC, that’s a 2.8 science GPA requirement and that is for undergraduate science courses (the few that you do take) AND medical school basic science courses taken together.

The Rutgers/Rowan MCAT requirement of a minimum of 9 on each section should be no problem for your daughter. DO schools in general tend to have lower matriculating GPA/MCAT scores. I don’t know whether your daughter would have the opportunity to apply out of the program to an allopathic school if she wanted to.

The DO degree usually (not always) makes it harder to get certain competitive specialties, although this may change with the MD-DO merger of residencies. That being said, programs, esp. competitive programs, that have a bias against taking DO students before, will have the same bias after the merger. They will try to fill with qualified MD candidates first. It’s really difficult for you to evaluate match lists bc there are so many variables come into play. Premeds, in my experience, tend to not evaluate match lists as well as those who have been through medical school and the match.

I guess it really depends on what specific specialty your daughter is aiming for esp. with paying out-of-state tuition (I don’t know financially what your situation is). Neither option is really the best, honestly, but between those 2 choices only, I’d pick UMKC so that you aren’t already limiting your chance at getting a competitive specialty. Neither school really has a lot of of good research going on.

However, some things to keep in mind. The UMKC BA/MD program is one in which the undergrad courses and the medical school courses are take together. There is no true separation between the “undergrad part” and the “medical school part”. The school runs year around with no summer breaks at all. I also don’t know how much of a college life your daughter expects to have, when it comes to exploring interests outside of medicine and being involved in extracurriculars, etc. As you go further into the program, it’s much more difficult to pack up and say you’d rather do the traditional route bc UMKC purposefully leaves out certain premed requirements (Physics, 2 semester Organic, Biology), without having to redo a number of years. Traveling home frequently will be a problem for your daughter from UMKC if you’re out-of-state vs. those who are in-state or live in an adjacent state.

USMLE board preparation is an individual endeavor. Realize however that bc it’s a six year program - the basic science curriculum (which is hard enough in a 4 year program) is condensed and accelerated even further in order to be able to fit those requirements and bachelor requirements within six years. There are many who do enroll in a formal Kaplan course, which most traditional medical students don’t do, bc we realized how deficient our courses were in certain areas when it came to preparing for boards. No basic science curriculum is perfect, but bc our program is accelerated, there is some cutting of corners, to put it mildly.

Maybe I’m not understanding your sentence, but did you actually ask UMKC what their average board score was and they just refused to tell you? That’s not a good sign, IMHO.

You can definitely take a year off - before I left the UMKC program permanently, I wanted the option to come back, so they granted me a 1 year sabbatical pretty easily. Like @Roentgen said, whether that year of research (or whatever) actually helps your residency application…is dependent on many variables.

@collegebills
DO vs UMKC BA/MD is a tough call - it really depends on what the kid wants to do. Family or internal medicine at a regional or local hospital - she can probably get away with paying much less for the DO and get the desired result.

More competitive residencies, that is probably another story. While UMKC is at the bottom of the MD pedigree chain, it is still above the DO programs in terms of perception and bias. This will likely affect the kid’s competitiveness when it comes to harder and more desirable specialties.

Neither are ideal routes for competitive specialties, but UMKC would likely provide greater benefit (it could be ‘marginal’ or it could be ‘significant’ if it helps get the job she wants). It comes down to figuring out if that benefit is worth +$180K after-tax.

Annually, there are probably at least a few UMKC kids who are matching at some pretty competitive residencies (someone correct me here if I’m wrong). I’m not sure that the DO kids even get the chance to interview for those slots.

Up till now, I know that DO schools had their own protected residencies that they could apply to. They had some of their own competitive specialties, but even those were very few spots. Now with the merger between the DO and MD residencies, where they are technically open to everyone - likely what will happen is some DO residencies will close down due to not meeting MD residency standards and now many of those DO residencies in competitive specialties will take MD students who were more qualified but before couldn’t apply to DO residencies. There may be some that have DOs as faculty and feel an obligation to help their fellow DOs, however, and take them instead. Competititive MD positions now will continue to interview and take MD students even after the merger, so @Johnny H, is right about this.

From a match standpoint, you have more fields opened to you, even going to the lowest tier MD school vs. a DO school. MD schools have higher average GPA/MCAT matriculant stats vs. DO schools, and get higher quality applicants. If it tells you anything, the MD-only students we had in our class, were people who applied everywhere and UMKC’s med school was either their last resort to get into an MD school (either bc of their stats and/or bc the competition was just so great) or they lived in KC.

If your desire is Primary Care (IM/Peds/FM) or a noncompetitive specialty, then DO is fine and you’ll save $180,000 which will buy you a nice house. It’s also very close to your home which is a big bonus. But if you want to subspecialize or specialize, esp. in something competitive, then the MD route is the best. It’s not a guarantee, but at least it won’t be closed off to you in the beginning. That being said, if your niece is someone who will get homesick easily, wants a good study-life balance, doesn’t want to rush things, then UMKC’s program is not worth it, esp. if it will irreparably destroy her performance, which will be hard to recover from.

The ones who got the more competitive residencies coming from UMKC were the ones who were usually at the top of their game and cream of the crop of an already high achieving class. They were the types who were HS class valedictorians/salutatorians, had several acceptances at other more prestigious BS/MD programs but chose UMKC. They might take a year off to do research somewhere else (although this doesn’t guarantee squat). They are very much outliers on the curve and an exception to the rule. I wouldn’t base my matriculation decision on an outlier.

That’s different from other medical medical schools in which being at the very top of your class or AOA is nowhere close to being a requirement for competitive specialties, bc their med school is known to put out good graduates in general and have more opportunities and resources: WashU, Baylor, Brown, Northwestern, UPitt (all of which have BS/MD programs, by the way). These places have higher average USMLE Step 1 scores than UMKC which is not surprising.

I’ve known people who were top of their class and AOA trying to get a very competitive residency and came up short and went for something less competitive later. Would these people have gotten their competitive specialty if they went to a higher tier med school? Most likely yes.

Good points.

@collegebills‌
I would take a look at the DO match list for your niece’s school and see what most of the students end up doing. If she’s content with that outcome (and the lack of flexibility to change her mind for something more competitive), then it might make sense to go with it.

@ Roentgen and @ Johnny H - Thanks for your insights.

In the Rutgers/Rowan program, she does have an opportunity after 3rd year to apply out to allopathic schools, but if she does that, she loses her spot at Rowan, and ends up being like any other applicant to any other med school, and would have to deal with the entire process of applying to medical schools. But if she scores well enough on MCAT, that does become an option - obviously higher GPA than the required 3.5 would have to be acquired.

UMKC did not provide average USMLE scores over the phone, indicating that is not information they make public.
Rowan, still in process of finding out.

One thing that is making a little more difficult to decide is that both schools have competitive residencies. Rowan about 23% (meaning that many students get into specialties like Anesth, EM, Ortho Surgery, Path, Radio etc.) and UMKC for about 30%. Rowan students match list for 2014 shows that students got both osteo and allo. residencies, and some pretty competitive residencies as well. Also Rowan matched 99% of applicants vs. UMKC matched about 93% of applicants for class of 2014.

UMKC Match List: <a href=“http://med.umkc.edu/sa/match-day-2014/”>http://med.umkc.edu/sa/match-day-2014/&lt;/a&gt;
Rowan Match List: <a href=“Rowan-Virtua SOM | School of Osteopathic Medicine | Rowan University”>Rowan-Virtua SOM | School of Osteopathic Medicine | Rowan University;

The only thing that is difficult to ascertain is if any of the internal medicine candidates are subsequently moving into sub specialty…

As for the cost, UMKC being out of state will mean approx. $500K (for 6 years), and Rutgers/Rowan about $320K (for 7 years). Both after taxes are considerable. She will have support for about $250K in various forms from family, the rest she is on her own.

Correction on UMKC Stats - it is about 23% for graduates getting into competitive residencies. (19 out of 82).

@collegebills, I guess it depends on which specialties you defined as being “competitive” so that 23% is not necessarily a static number. As far as your list - Anesthesiology, Pathology, and General Surgery are usually not considered to be “competitive” residencies. Even EM is not really “competitive” per say. Ortho definitely is, as is Radiology. I’m not seeing the competitive residencies on Rowan’s match list if you look at it, unless you’re using your previous list.

As far as Internal Medicine, which is a relatively non-competitive specialty to begin with, the key then is to look at the quality of the institution for someone who matched into Internal Medicine. The ones on the UMKC list who matched into Internal Medicine at high caliber institutions were AOA honor society members and were all at the top of their med school class. The rest were relatively mid-tier if not low-tier institutions. This is from a school in which students get a lot more required Internal Medicine exposure (whether they like it or not) than at other schools. Even then, besides the select ones at the very top of the class, you don’t really see much love at higher caliber IM institutions for UMKC med students in general.

That DO match list looked better than I expected.

That being said, the UMKC list was also way better than I expected (may be low expectations from previous years or because it was not sorted).

@Johnny H, the weeding out process has also increased in order to promote from one year to the next. Both lists don’t include people who didn’t match, or couldn’t find a position to Scramble into. I thought it was interesting Rowan matched 99% and UMKC matched 93%. The ones who got into high caliber institutions were also AOA members.

It always helps to look at trends in match lists over several years, bc any one year can be a fluke. Also, although not politically correct, >50% of the class are Asians who will gun harder (not in a bad way). As a rule, probably not good to judge how one will do, based on the outliers in the class.

By the way, you were correct previously about out-of-state tuition, as I wasn’t sure myself: <a href=“UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program - #31 by qwerty55 - Multiple Degree Programs - College Confidential Forums”>UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program - #31 by qwerty55 - Multiple Degree Programs - College Confidential Forums;

“Out-of-state residents applying to this program agree to the non-resident fee payment and other fees paid by resident students for a full six years or longer if individual circumstances require and agree not to apply for or otherwise claim entitlement to any UMKC non-resident scholarship.”

I have no idea whether this is still true.

I looked at the link re: OOS tuition. From conversation with financial aid office, it appears that this is no longer the case (i.e. if residency status changes, although it is difficult to obtain residency, then for the years after obtaining residency, in-state rates apply).

As for the Financial Aid - While the below statement maybe generally true, for OOS this really does not apply, as the financial aid is mostly geared towards in-state students.

“The UMKC School of Medicine each year offers students thousands of dollars in financial assistance from the many endowments and scholarships available to incoming first-year students and minority students.”

@collegebills, yes, if you’re out-of-state, you pretty much get no financial aid, or at least not enough to make a huge difference. Most of scholarships, etc. are geared toward the in-state student. I think the most likely route to establishing Missouri residency (which I guess they now allow), is probably buying/leasing a house: <a href=“http://www.umkc.edu/residency/documents/residency_petition_packet.pdf”>http://www.umkc.edu/residency/documents/residency_petition_packet.pdf&lt;/a&gt;

Hello,
I am really interested in this program as well as other 6, 7, or 8 year programs.
How many people are usually accepted into this program?
Also, I see that you are saying that out of state students receive near no aid. How much do the fees come out to be for out of state students?
Thank you! :slight_smile:

@arriety, if you go to the website and see:

  1. <a href=“http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/faqs/”>http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/faqs/&lt;/a&gt;
    The incoming class will be 109 students, with 60-65 students admitted from the state of Missouri, 30-35 students admitted from the regional states (Arkansas, Kansas, Illinois, Nebraska or Oklahoma) and 10-15 students admitted from out-of-state.

  2. For out of state students see here: <a href=“https://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site2/forms/coa/nonResident.pdf”>https://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site2/forms/coa/nonResident.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
    Total Tuition = $328,612
    Total Cost of Attendance = $480,620