@PinkPrincess2014 Best of luck to you. Trust your own ability, figure things out yourself, and make sound decision: In a real world, no one will be doing what these guys did on CC for you. If someone is so insecure with his ability, medical school may be not for him. UMKC COM is ranked (or not even ranked) the lowest among all US medical school.
@efr009, I agree with you, and I realize in many areas of life I won’t be given this information directly and I’ll have to hunt for it on my own to figure it out. I’m just thankful that those like @Roentgen, @UMKCRoosMD, and @blugrn6, take the time to come back and tell us these things, going into detail, so we know what we are up against and there aren’t huge surprises. It’s nice when people who may have had to hunt for the information on their own when they were in school, come back to impart that knowledge to others here rather than just say, “Let them figure it out!”. The world is a nicer place when people help each other, although I know it is not the reality.
I agree UMKC is an unranked medical school:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/university-of-missouri-kansas-city-04058
According to this, it’s a Tier 3 medical school and has a lower average MCAT of 28.
http://medical-schools.startclass.com/l/113/University-of-Missouri-Kansas-City-School-of-Medicine
@efr009
It’s not about hand holding at all. It’s about asking the right questions so that you can make an informed decision.
I used to have that same philosophy in life. Then I realized that there are people out there who are willing to help and make your life so much easier. The reason I post on this thread is because people helped me out when I was making my decision tremendously. Trust me no one is going to hold your hand here, and if you have to pursue top tier residencies you are definitely on your own. I would argue that other schools are more hand holding types of environments when it comes to support for residency applications than UMKC.
I get what you are saying but there are some things that are known facts about every school that are non known unless you share things with people. The same is true for residency applications. You ask people for their advice and
what they did that worked and didn’t work. The whole point of this forum is to network with people and not repeat the same mistakes that someone else did.
I wish there were people who would have told me, don’t do biology major because it impacts your life later on in 4th year before I made the decision to do it. It’s not that they are holding my hand, it’s just friendly advice to someone who is new to this experience who doesn’t know better otherwise.
And who knows, there are people who are always shy to ask questions but then benefit from reading the conversation on this thread.
I am not offended by your comment at all. I’m just defending those who ask legitimate questions on the thread. The ultimate decision is theirs. I feel that asking questions and for help is a sign of humility not weakness. I’m sure @PinkPrincess2014 would have been just fine without our advice, but now that she has more information the decision that she has to make herself can be more clear. In the real world that’s what you do, you gather facts and make an informed decision. That’s what medicine is. A decision based on provided information. If you don’t hahe that then you’re blindly making a guess and hoping that you make the right decision. That not what clinical medicine is. When you are stuck as a clinician, you consult someone and ask for help. If you are too unwilling to ask for help them you’re seeing the Bussiness end of a lawsuit if you make the wrong decision.
@Blugrn6, this will be my last post on this thread. I was not talking help with Match, residence application, or practicing medicine. I have not problems with that. I am just a little surprised that they wanted to know what classes and in which semesters they should take. College students across the country have to make that kind of decisions everyday regardless if they are in a community college or ivy school. My son has rejected UMKC so I am signing off now.
@efr009, I take no offense to your opinion that it’s hand holding. Some people will agree with you, some will disagree with you. That’s cool. No harm, no foul. I think BS/MD students should have all the information at their fingertips to make these special decisions, especially in a program like this where it’s really tough to leave after a certain point. This isn’t just entering college, the UMKC BA/MD program is truly a combined program at its core.
The reason I post on this thread is because I’ve known people in my class who felt trapped even by Year 2, and it isn’t pretty because it truly impacts them and their families on so many levels. They weren’t stupid, lazy, insecure, or not pro-active. They just didn’t know until it was too late and felt like this was the only way to achieve their dreams. I think it helps people who actively ask questions, as well as those students and their families, who just read this thread in general, and might be afraid to ask questions, about whether the UMKC program is a good fit for them. Knowing the inner details or hand holding as you call it, makes that question easier to answer, I believe.
I’m not surprised that @PinkPrincess2014 asked that question, because you are only allowed to take undergrad classes certain semesters, so you have to fit things in as you can.
@efr009, this program is not a normal BS/MD program. They combine undergrad classes and medical classes together. You can only take classes at certain times. Just because I ask a question doesn’t mean I can’t make my own decisions. I realize college counselors advise, but I also ask because sometimes knowing from prior students helps future students avoid pitfalls that a counselor may not know about. I’m guessing your son was rejected from UMKC, rather than your son rejecting it. There is no need to be negative to @blugrn6.
Agree with @PinkPrincess2014 that some of the webpages that @Blugrn6 and @Roentgen provided are not easily found. Given that UMKC 6 yr program is on a tight schedule, these insights help in creating a better schedule.
@Blugrn6, can you comment on why doing Biology major might not be a good idea? Would you mind sharing the pros and cons of the three majors (LA, Bio and Chem.).
@Blugrn6, @Roentgen, @UMKCRossMD,
- I hear around 20-25% of the students extend from 6 years to 7 years. What do they do during this time. Do they typically do this after 2nd year? I don’t want to really do this, as it adds one more year of undergraduate year fee. But, does UMKC push students to go this route?
- Is UMKC known for deflating grades? How important are grades in residency matches? I understand AOA helps residency matches and grades contribute to AOA membership. Anything other than that?
- If I take AP credit for certain courses, do I have to take some other courses in their spots or can I take the advanced courses (e.g., try to do the Year-4 courses before 2nd year itself)? Is it feasible to complete all the Undergrad courses with in the first two years (end of summer) by not coming with AP Chem credit. I’ve AP Bio though.
- When is the best time to go offsite and do research? After Year 3? Does UMKC encourage doing this?
- How and when do you do rotations at other places. What is the process in UMKC and the places you want to do rotations?
@pleasant
- I would say probably many more than 20-25% extend. The statistics posted previously showed that 80% of students who start the program as Year 1s, actually end up graduating from the program with their BA and MD (that figure includes people who extended to 7/8 years in order to do so - and thus graduate with a different class than whom they started with. Most of the people who “extend” sometime during the 6 years usually do so for an involuntary reason: insufficient science GPA to promote, withdraw from/failing a class that is a prerequisite for the next part of the curriculum (Organic to Biochem), not passing USMLE Step 1 and need to change their schedule to study, etc. I don’t think many people really extend in Year 1. If there are, they don’t stay in the program long, and usually end up leaving medicine altogether. Quite honestly, if you can’t handle Year 1 science classes, you’ll be in big trouble.
If you extend during Year 1 or 2, you automatically extend for 1 year and pay another year in tuition. It’s harder to extend a year in Years 3-6, because your schedule can be rearranged to make it work.
I don’t know how things have changed, I think @blugrn6 will know more about this, but when I was a Year 1, if someone even had the slightest hint of academic trouble, they always brought up extending as an option, which used to annoy us A LOT. Maybe it’s just a reflexive thing, but it wasn’t very appreciated. Ironically, it helped motivate us to study more and harder as we felt like we were fighting against the school trying to suck out another year of tuition from us.
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UMKC does not deflate grades, for sure. As far as I know, unless things have changed greatly, the only curves are ones that can help you. In terms of most residency specialties, your clinical grades mean the most and takes up the most room on your MSPE. Your grades in basic science courses aren’t as highly valued, but your grades contribute to your overall class rank and for AOA consideration through your cumulative GPA. Class rank is mainly calculated taking into account your cumulative GPA, clinical rotation grades, and USMLE Step 1 score to place you into one of the 5-6 categories on your MSPE. I don’t think the school tells you the exact formula for this, and this is still kept secret I believe - @blugrn6 may know more about this though
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The only requirement that UMKC SOM has is that you maintain full-time student status in terms of credit hours each semester (which isn’t that hard in the first 2 years because your Med classes are like 5-7 hours). So if you have AP exam credit for a class, then you can move classes up to replace it. So yes, in that way, you could move up something you’d take in Year 4 campus to Year 2 or Year 1, as long as you’ve met the prerequisites for the course. It is very possible to finish all your undergraduate requirements in the first 2 years, depending on the amount of credit you come in with. I do think it is harder to do that if you don’t come in with any General Chem credit so you can take Organic in Year 1 Spring. No matter even if you are finished with your Bachelor’s requirements, you’re still required as an on-track BA/MD student to take a campus semester in Year 4 - Fall, Spring, or Summer. So many people I know took UMKC classes that were online.
Realize you can also sign up for CLEP tests in college which are offered which will knock out some General Ed requirements. The AP Bio exam is absolutely useless at UMKC. You don’t get any credit for taking that exam, unfortunately.
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If you’re going to take time off to do research, the best time is probably after Year 5 when you’ve completed all your Year 5 clerkships, although I have seen some people do it after Year 4 when finishing Step 1. I’ll leave it to @blugrn6 to answer whether UMKC actively encourages this or not. You do have to petition for a Leave of Absence to do so, which is almost always granted.
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You usually do audition electives at other institutions during Year 6, although you could probably fit in one month during Year 5. Most (but not all) places require that you have completed all your required clerkships (MS-3 year at traditional medical schools). There is some elective time during Year 4 at UMKC as well, but it might be difficult to do an elective at another institution depending on their policy. The one exception to finishing all your required clerkships at other places might be if you were to do a research elective month.
Hey @Pleasant, this is the Biology degree with only the undergrad requirements shown below. The only problem I could possibly see for you is that even if you had completed enough hours early on to only have to take a summer campus in Year 4, Biology 498WI may not be offered in the summer, so you would have no choice but to take your Year 4 campus semester in Fall or Spring. I’m just going based off of the Pathway website in which the last time Biology 498WI was offered as a course in the summer semester was in 2012.
http://med.umkc.edu/curriculum/info/#bachelorsReq → it says here “All Year 4 BA/MD students will also enroll in a minimum of 12 hours of undergraduate course work during their Fall or Spring bachelor’s degree semester. Students who petition and are approved by the Council on Curriculum to take a Summer Semester in Year 4 must take a minimum of six Bachelor’s degree hours.” – so even if you need less hours overall, you still have to take the above stated hours to be a full time student.
Year 1 Fall Semester
*Anchor I: Reasoning and Values = 3 credit hours
*DISC 100: Reasoning and Values (Speech and Writing) = 3 credit hours
LS-ANATO 119: Functional Anatomy I = 3 credit hours
LS-ANATO 118L: Introductory Anatomy Laboratory = 2 credit hours
BIOLOGY 108 AND 108L: General Biology I (LEC and LAB) OR CHEM 211 AND 211L: General Chemistry I (LEC and LAB) = 4 OR 5 credit hours
Year 1 Spring Semester
LS-MCRB 121: Human Biology III (Microbiology) = 3 credit hours
LS-MCRB 121L: Human Biology III (Microbiology) Lab = 1 credit hour
CHEM 212R: General Chemistry II = 4 credit hours
CHEM 212LR: Experimental General Chemistry II = 1 credit hour
PSYCH 210: General Psychology = 3 credit hours
SOCIOL 101: Sociology - An Introduction = 3 credit hours
Year 2 Summer Semester
CHEM 320: Elementary Organic Chemistry = 4 credit hours
CHEM 320L: Experimental Organic Chemistry = 1 credit hour
BIOLOGY 202: Cell Biology = 3 credit hours
Year 2 Fall Semester
*Anchor II: Culture and Diversity = 3 credit hours
*DISC 200: Culture and Diversity (Speech and Writing) = 3 credit hours
BMS 9265: Human Biochemistry = 5 credit hours
BIOLOGY 206: Genetics = 3 credit hours
SOCIOL 211: Sociology Life Cycles = 3 credit hours
Year 4 Campus
*Anchor III: Community & Civic Engagement = 3 credit hours
*DISC 300: Community & Civic Engagement (Speech and Writing) = 3 credit hours
Missouri Constitution course = 3 credit hours
Focus A: Arts and Humanities = 3 credit hours
STAT 235: Elementary Statistics = 3 credit hours
BIOLOGY 498WI: Critical Analysis of Biological Issues = 3 credit hours
*Students may satisfy the DISC 100 Requirement with ACT English subscore of 30 or above or SAT verbal subscore of 690 or above
One of the following courses must be completed before beginning the 6-year combined degree curriculum in order to be able to complete the BA Biology:
BIOLOGY 108 AND 108L: General Biology I (LEC and LAB) (Must be taken at UMKC) OR CHEM 211 AND 211L: General Chemistry I (LEC and LAB)
BIOLOGY 108 AND 108L must be completed at UMKC
CHEM 211 and 211L may be completed at UMKC or transferred to UMKC*
@pleasant
Biology major was annoying when I entered the program because of a couple reasons:
- when you take your microbiology class, microbiology lab was not offered the same semester because it ended 30 mins before fundamentals started and the school thought that 30 mins would not be enough time for us to drive back to main campus one time for the other class. So they made us take that course automatically in the fall semester of your year 4 because that is the only time that lab class is offered, in fall semester.
Fall semester is annoying in terms of boards studying because then your schedule becomes choppy. - That automatically places your into summer pharmacology, right after a semester of Pathology 1 and 2. There is like a 1.5 week break in between, and that summer was brutal.
- Your year 4 vacation is now super choppy as well, because you have a break from August 1st after path to when fall campus starts (somewhere around the 19th or so) and then again from December 8th or so when finals are done till January 1st when you are automatically placed in Behavioral science (its only offered Aug, Sept, Dec, Jan) but you are in fall campus the other three months so you have to take it in January.
- So now we have reached february, you still have to do two months of Year 4 Doro (can be either feb/march or april/may, those are the only options, the whole cycle refreshes starting june) and you have to do one more month of family medicine. So feb/march and then family in april, and that leaves you with May and June to study for step 1. That’s fine if you have that schedule, but again you won’t start year 5 until June, that means you won’t finish until next June, and if you year 6 doro starts is early again like august/sept or something than you have one month left to do an away rotation.
- The reason its so annoying is because the only credit that I had left to finish my undergraduate degree was that stupid micro lab. If that was not a requirement I could have gotten summer campus. Instead of wasting August, sept, oct, nov, and december in undergrad (which btw is way to early to study for step 1 cuz you forget stuff, and not to mention, you could study for it and take it in fall campus but UMKC has a stupid rule that you can’t take step 1 until you have finished behavioral science (which makes sense cuz its on the exam) AND either DoRo or family (either one) which is a stupid policy cuz that means any studying you do for step 1 in fall campus is too early, you’re gonna forget).
Vs. Summer campus, you are done with undergrad stuff in June/July, you can take behavioral in august, family in september, pharm oct november, and then likely doro somewhere in there, but you have essentially from december until may to do whatever the hell you want, in terms of study month, take your test and start you year 5 rotations early. Or if you have spring campus, you will have finished all of your requirements before January starts, so then again most people take stupid online classes to fulfill their degree, so again you have from January all the way till May to study for step 1 essentially without a worry in the world. Its just more convenient.
Sorry that was a long and un-neccesary rant, but I think they changed it two years after we started so you can take micro lab at the same time, but again UMKC has weird rules. You can’t take more than three science courses at the same time, so if you don’t have much credits you’re gonna have to take them year 4 instead, and for biology those requirements are like upper level 300/400 numbered courses that are more tedious in terms of time commitment, etc. Plus you’re pretty isolated in your class (which can be a good or a bad thing), but you can’t really get advice from a lot of people cuz most of them are doing BLA and in their happy criminal justice is so easy world, and its just annoying to deal with. If you plan on sticking with the program, it really makes no difference if you get a BA in liberal arts (which btw is not a thing in the real world) or a BA in biology, chem, psych, etc. Is it really worth the headache to set up? No really. Just take some humanities courses and call it a day.
To comment on other things that @Roentgen mentioned.
- Extending isn't pushed around as much anymore, if you if fail a class or you GPA tanks, that's it. You're extending. It does not matter if you find some way to fit everything in, they won't buy it. This is in first 3.5 years when you have actually classes. When its clinical rotations, if you can fit it in (at a cost to you because it usually means you don't have as many elective months later), they won't push you too much and try to work with you. Also please remember, and someone correct me if i'm wrong, but once you extend, it does not matter where you are from, you have to pay OOS tuition fee for the rest of your time here at UMKC. Please be aware of this, because not only are you extending, but you are then gonna end up paying more.
- Yes that formula is still a secret. They have some secret formula they use to determine latin honors for your class. Essentially just try to get an A/Honors in everything and do decent on boards and you'll be fine.
- Grades are not curved as much as they used to be. HSF is basically 100 question exams and you get how many you got right, there is no curve. Micro has a curve but that's because that class is actually legit. Neuro has a hella curve (I would never study for a test, walk in, feel like I failed and then somehow get a 100...it was bizzare, no one knew how it worked, but that teacher retired after our class so idk how it works right now). Path does or does not have a curve depending on who taught the unit. Pharm as not curve.
- Research isn't discouraged but it is not actively encouraged either. If you wanna do it you have to figure it out yourself. I commented more on this part earlier on the thread and some of the problems that come associated with it.
I would honestly just talk to people in your class and do what a majority are doing. That way you are all in this together and help each other out.
Doing Biology or Chem does not help you out in the slightest later on. People who did BLA do just as well if not better on boards than the ones who did the “exotic” majors like bio and chem. And yes saying exotic is not an overstatement, you will most likely be the only one in your class. The avg number of students doing biology in most classes in 2-3, and chemistry is usually 1, there are 1-2 psych thrown in there and the other 99 do BLA.
Also just to add something, if you are gonna come to UMKC with the intention to take a year off for research, please don’t come here.
Its really not worth the trouble. You’ll only save 1 year vs the traditional route and at other places its easier to find research and not take a year off and still match a competitive speciality.
If research is in your radar 100%, look elsewhere. You ain’t gonna find what you want here I guarantee it.
Also research is essentially not allowed while you are in your first two years of school. You can only start once you’re a third year through the school of medicine. You can find someone else and do it privately, that’s fine, but you won’t find a project through the school as soon as you step foot on campus. Especially clinical research.
@BluGrn6 Would say that doing a BLA is better on the schedule in terms of not having to take a whole semester year 4 and taking a summer semester? Also, what affect does your major have on your rotation schedule in year 5/6, if any? I wanted to participate in international rotations both years, does that happen often?
In addition, what are the top three things that every student should know going in to the program (since I have accepted and I feel like my ETC is…also what is your opinion on ETCs and other support staff at UMKC), like what are those life-saving tips that no one usually tells you.
How do you like the dorms at UMKC, food, fitness, extracurriculars? You mentioned commuting between The Hill and Volker for classes, will we have to do that our first/second year? I may not be coming with a vehicle, what are your thoughts on that?
@Blugrn6, is this a new policy for students regarding research? I was reading and it says if you’re put into the Year 1 Alternate Program (I’m assuming this means extending in Year 1), then you can’t participate in research until you become a Year 3. Is it an enforced rule now for all students that if you’re a Year 1 or 2, you can’t participate in ANY research with a School of Medicine faculty member, until you start Year 3?
@blugrn6, unless things have drastically changed, I think if you extend a year, you just pay an extra year of tuition at whatever rate you’re currently at: in-state, regional, or out-of-state. I don’t think you pay OOS tuition, regardless, for the rest of the time you’re in the program. If that’s the case, that majorly sucks, but I doubt it, as parents would truly raise a ruckus.
I also agree, if you’re coming here Year 1, with the intent already to take a year off to do research somewhere, I wouldn’t do the program. Every single person who I knew that took a year off to do research, did so after seeing how their application looked and then made a decision - sometimes it was because they were going for a competitive specialty, sometimes it was because they were truly exhausted from the pace of the program and needed a year to regroup and thus took a research year in their field they were going for. I don’t know one person who came in already planning to take a year off. Taking a year off during medical school is a decision that is made very carefully and looking at things from all angles.
Everyone came into the program wanting to graduate with our Bachelor degree and MD in 6 years, which is what sets UMKC (and I guess NEOMED) apart from every other medical school in the country. But life and all that it encompasses happens, so some people voluntarily take a year off, for whatever reason.
@blugrn6, I’m just curious, do they still have degrees like Philosophy, Sociology, Psychology, Communication Studies still available to BA/MD students? I know many students don’t do them just because of the amount of credit hours you have to come in with and now students have semester credit hour caps and can’t take undergrad classes with Structure Function. But one of my friends who did Child and Adolescent Psychiatry loved her Psychology courses and her degree but that kind of made sense in her circumstance.
What’s good about Bio and Chem (at least the way it used to be which you had) is that after Year 1 you could leave the program and still be right on track for the traditional premed route. For Psychology, if you realized med school was just too much, you could use your Psychology bachelor’s (although a much more expensive one) and go for a Doctorate in Psychology, if you wanted to be a clinical psychologist. A Liberal Arts degree by itself isn’t a useful degree (a.k.a. you’ll be unemployed), so if you leave the program in some way, you pretty much paid med school tuition for a useless Bachelor’s.
Part of the problem if you do any degree other than Liberal Arts at UMKC, is the schedule restrictions and you have so much other stuff on your plate - i.e. USMLE Step 1, that you don’t have time to be poring over 300/400 level classes during campus since they take much more work which takes away from studying. So many of us just chose the Liberal Arts degree because it was so much more malleable. We jokingly call the BLA, the the “B**** Lazy A**” degree, since it has one of the few hours for a degree in the entire university.
I’m pasting the Liberal Arts undergraduate degree requirements here since people were asking me to do so. @Ang it looks like here: http://catalog.umkc.edu/undergraduate-academic-regulations-information/academic-loads-full-part-time-status/, in a summer campus, the normal credit hour load is 8 hours, with full-time status being 6 hours. So you would have to be able to move 15 credit hours from Year 4 campus to the earlier semesters, which you can do easily since most people come in with some type of credit.
BACHELOR OF LIBERAL ARTS (BLA)
Year 1 Fall Semester
*Anchor I: Reasoning and Values = 3 credit hours
*DISC 100: Reasoning and Values (Speech and Writing) = 3 credit hours
LS-ANATO 119: Functional Anatomy I = 3 credit hours
LS-ANATO 119L: Functional Anatomy I Laboratory = 1 credit hour
CHEM 211: General Chemistry I = 4 credit hours
CHEM 211L: Experimental General Chemistry I = 1 credit hour
Year 1 Spring Semester
*Anchor II: Culture and Diversity = 3 credit hours
*DISC 200: Culture and Diversity (Speech and Writing) = 3 credit hours
CHEM 212R: General Chemistry II = 4 credit hours
CHEM 212LR: Experimental General Chemistry II = 1 credit hour
LS-MCRB 121: Human Biology III (Microbiology) = 3 credit hours
LS-MCRB 121L: Human Biology III (Microbiology) Lab = 1 credit hour
SOCIOL 101: Sociology - An Introduction OR PSYCH 210: General Psychology = 3 credit hours
Year 2 Summer Semester
CHEM 320: Elementary Organic Chemistry = 4 credit hours
CHEM 320L: Experimental Organic Chemistry = 1 credit hour
BIOLOGY 202: Cell Biology = 3 credit hours
MEDICINE 9221: Hospital Team Experience = 1 credit hour
Year 2 Fall Semester
BMS 9265: Human Biochemistry = 5 credit hours
BIOLOGY 206: Genetics = 3 credit hours
SOCIOL 211: Sociology Life Cycles = 3 credit hours
SOCIOL 101: Sociology - An Introduction OR PSYCH 210: General Psychology = 3 credit hours
FOREIGN LANGUAGE 120: Elementary Foreign Language II = 3 credit hours
Year 4 Campus Semester
*Anchor III: Community & Civic Engagement - Social Science prefix required = 3 credit hours
DISC 300: Community & Civic Engagement (Speech and Writing) = 3 credit hours
Focus A: Arts and Humanities - Humanities prefix required = 3 credit hours
Writing Intensive - Humanities prefix required = 3 credit hours
Math 110 or higher = 3 credit hours
FOREIGN LANGUAGE 211: Second Year Foreign Language I = 3 credit hours
Focus C: Human Actions, Values, and Ethics - Missouri Constitution course = 3 credit hours
Chem Elective (300/400) = 1 credit hour
*Students may satisfy the DISC 100 requirement with ACT English subscore of 30 or above or SAT verbal subscore of 690 or above.
This sample plan assumes a student has completed two years of the same foreign language in high school.
Students entering the six-year medical program with nine or fewer degree applicable hours toward the BLA will fulfill the College’s foreign language requirement with MED 9115: Medical Terminology and Classics and C391WI: Ancient Greek and Roman Medicine (instead of Foreign Language 120 and 211).*
@Blugrn6, I think the reason that LS-MCRB 313/LS-MCRB 313WL (upper level 300 level courses) are no longer the courses for microbiology that Biology major BA/MD students take, is likely because the School of Biological Sciences finally relented and accepted LS-MCRB 121/121 L (an introductory 100 level course) for their Biology BA degree. This seems to be a very recent change in the last 2 years, maybe because the School of Biological Sciences and the School of Medicine are getting along much better now and I’ve noticed through the UMKC website are trying better to coordinate and collaborate on some research projects.
For the bachelor degree, it’s entirely up to the undergraduate department in the university to decide which courses they will accept for credit for their degree, since the undergraduate degree is only issued by them, and not the School of Medicine, who can only issue the MD degree.
Your schedule was crazy back then: http://www.umkc.edu/majormaps/maps/2010-2011/UMKC_Major_map_basic_MD_info_with_BA_Bio.pdf. They had you guys taking Genetics at the same time that you’re taking General Biology II, when General Biology II is actually a prerequisite for taking Genetics. That’s crazy!
It’s good that things have changed now, although in reality, it just means they have had to ease up on the requirements for the Bio degree for BA/MD students: http://med.umkc.edu/docs/accepted/BA_Bio_MD_Major_Map.pdf
Alright friends, I’m going to try to reply to what everyone said/asked in order. If I forget something just remind me:
@ang
so I was looking at the course map and apparently lots of things have changed. You have to take a statistics and a civic discourse class your fourth year? Are you serious? What the hell is that even.
So when I started school, it used to be that if you were a biology major then you automatically had to have fall campus year 4 for the whole micro lab thing. Which @UMKCRoosMD, I had no idea that they take the regular micro now for biology major. We had to take 300 level micro and micro lab. Oh how I wished I didn’t have to take micro 300, that class was so tedious.
Anyways, I guess things are different now so you are not guaranteed anything in terms of of choosing a major anymore. Also remember, not everyone can get summer or spring campus, we still had BLA people get fall campus because they have to divide it up evenly: 1/3 do summer, 1/3 do fall, and the other 1/3 do spring.
What I would do, if were you, is this: you have to play tricks with UMKC to get what you want, but it totally works.
- Minimize the number of credits you need to take year 4: I came in with chem credit (5 on AP chem got me out of chem 211 and 212 and both labs), apparently you can now get credit for bio 108? That was not a rule for us, might wanna look into that, cuz just taking bio 109 will free up a science slot for one of the semesters. I took AP US history in high school and got a 5 on that test so I got to credit out the constitution requirement, and I studied for a weekend and took a CLEP test for Psych and got out of that requirement as well.
- After you have maxed out all of your requirements, see what you have remaining before you enter the program or after your first semester. Then start taking classes that are supposed to be taken in year 4 ,early so you can minimize what requirements you have left for year 4. Summer campus is reserved for students who only have 3-5 max credit hours left. (this is an unstated rule not published anywhere). If you have more, they try to give you fall or spring campus.
- Here is when the trick comes in: take they classes that are ONLY offered in fall campus early and leave classes are only offered in either spring campus. Also make sure that the requirements that you have left for year 4 are offered during the summer. You can search all of this stuff on pathway, just do it for the current academic year. That way you will have a couple things going for you when they are deciding who gets summer campus: A. Minimum credits left to graduate. B. courses only offered in fall are already done. C. everything that you have left is either offered in summer or spring.
- Don't be afraid to max out all of your credit hours early in your enrollment. I took 22 credit hours each semester in fall and spring of year 1 and fall of year 2. It was hell but if you get summer campus, totally worth it.
- Honestly this sounds stupid, but students in my class who were more proactive about getting summer campus from the beginning did actually get it. So don't be obnoxious and ask your ETC, hey lets work on this starting right now. Just research stuff on your own and then start requesting your ETC to take things early and stuff. It helps a lot, trust me. Especially since you wanna do international electives.
Again this is just a observed method and trick. Please don’t blame me if you don’t get summer or spring campus.
International electives. So if you want to do the school of medicine ones…there are only a few options that I know of:
- Graz austria music and medicine class - everyone who goes says its amazing as eff. You can’t be in summer pharm, again so it helps not having fall campus, but basically you are take it when you are on either semester. Spring campus it is easier to take because its treated like an elective during the summer, if you are on summer campus, the ETCs help figure out some way for it to count as one of your undergrad humanities credit.
- Honduras medical mission trip - global medical bridgades, this is a week long and they first ask everyone who wants to go, and then they pick the week everyone is on vacation, so its not that big of a deal.
All the other international electives you have to set up on your own. We have lots of people go to india, some cool students who set up their own electives in haiti, in south america, in kenya. You just have to figure it out for yourself, and find the month where you can go and UMKC will accommodate that into your schedule. You just need to make sure that you have lots of electives Year 5. Which again, having summer campus helps.
Basically if you don’t get it by now: summer campus is the answer to all of your problems. They get to go to the best electives, they have greatest number of elective months and all around the best schedule. If it sounds like i’m super jelly of them, that’s because I am. But only 1/3 of the class gets its, and there is no set way to get around it so be proactive about it.
Top 3 things you need to know
- Be savvy and proactive early: take classes strategically to get yourself summer campus. As an older year, have a plan of exactly what you want and request to your ETC when they plan to place you in your year 3 teams that you wish to not have doro during the summer because you want to do the international elective (make sure it is in the summer, it was for us).
- get involved early: its easy to be like I have 23 credit hours, I go to class like all the time, I want my weekends, but the med school has clubs that are super undergrad heavy: APAMSA comes to mind. Its probably too early for you to go to interest groups, mainly cuz if I saw you there as a year 1 I would be like wtf, too soon bro. Start as a third year or when you are in HSF to explore the interest groups. But start volunteering at Sojourner Free health clinic. They have a clinic every sunday except holidays, so going once a month is enough. If you don’t like them, go to the Kansas City Free Eye Clinic. Both are great community service clinics, and the earlier you get involved the higher your officer position will be when you are a fifth year and want to apply. Get involved with GlobeMed on UMKC campus, that is also full of younger students.
- Study hard and don’t get lazy: the more As you have earlier, the easier it becomes if you mess up a later class to still have a decent GPA. But don’t go crazy, do work that you need to do to get an A, but don’t kill yourself to get a 100. Relax and enjoy the relatively easy going attitude at the program. Most of the students in your class will be people who work hard and play hard.
Support staff:
They are excellent and will try to help you as much as they can. Yes a lot of times they won’t be the ones who are like: yes lets get you that summer campus. You have to be more proactive and tell them what you want, if they say I don’t think anyone has ever done that before, find examples of older years who have so they can make it happen for you, etc. Also don’t be annoying and piss them off, be nice even if you don’t get what you want. UMKC is a small community at the medical school, and they all know you. Being cross with someone early means, not getting elected for AOA later when they choose 4 out of your class to nominate because they don’t like you.
@PinkPrincess2014
So research is not actively forbidden in Year 1-2, its just that if you approach the UMKC research department at the medical school, they will usually say why don’t you wait till you’re a third year and come back. If you are persistent they will still take you.
The best way to do it is to find an undergraduate mentor at the school of biological sciences or a separate doctor at St. Lukes, Children’s Mercy, etc to go do research with. Does that make sense?
If you wanna go through the school, gotta wait till Year 3, otherwise, you can do whatever you want.
You won’t really have much time Year 1 just because you are so busy running around places and trying to figure things out. Year 2 things calm down fall campus and then once HSF starts you will become busy again. So I understand their rule, it make sense, because you won’t really have much time for research until year 3 anyways.
But start looking for research early in HSF, so by the time it’s over, you will have something set up. It takes a while at UMKC to find research, so start looking early.
@Roentgen
So I tried to find if this was a stated rule somewhere about the tuition. I remember people telling me this multiple times year 1 as a motivation to not fail fundamentals, but maybe it was just a rumor.
I’ll try to ask around, but I’m pretty sure I heard it from my ETC that you have to pay tuition at on OOS rate for the rest of your time at UMKC.
@UMKCRoosMD
Yea all those degree options that are “exotic” are still available. And as you said, you just have to passionate about it to take the time to tease out the details and set it up yourself. The ETC are not the most knowledgeable on that stuff, but I have a friend who did BA Psychology as well and they loved it! So you can do it, its just an administrative nightmare to figure out.