You had said there are some students in the class who might have been shooting for something like Radiation Oncology (or anything competitive) and realize they will never match coming from UMKC and are “on another level”. What did you mean by that? When and how do they figure out that they will have no chance to get their #1 specialty? Does a faculty member tell them or something?
I guess that’s what I would be scared of.
@raggyy, yes, it’s like that for a lot of BS/MD programs. You’ll need good grades of course, but also extracurricular healthcare volunteering activities – i.e volunteering at a clinic, hospital, etc. are necessary since they show that you’re ok with being in a medical setting. Publishing research is not really necessary for UMKC’s program. UMKC really does emphasize the extracurricular stuff more, I think.
Thxn again @PinkPrincess2014 ! i also heard that many hospitals, when accepting residencies, are hesitant to accept 6 year med program students. Is that true? I did see the match program on UMKC’s website but was wondering if I could get a perspective from somebody other than UMKC.
@raggyy, is UMKC the only BA/MD program you’re applying to?
@raggyy, just to correct you – hospitals don’t accept residents directly. Hospitals, usually those in academic medical centers that are directly connected with a medical school have a residency training program, whose spots are usually subsidized by the U.S. federal government mainly through Medicare. Those residencies have faculty who are employed by that hospital but are also faculty professors at that medical school – you usually interview with these people. Getting into a residency involves a “match” process in which you send an application, interview there if offered an interview, and then rank all your interviews (and all programs rank the people they want in order), after which a computer picks the best of both rank lists based on an algorithm.
I think you’ll have difficulty getting an objective opinion on that issue in this thread. For that question, it would be best to ask academic residency faculty and who are involved with selection of residents as to their opinion on 6 year graduates in general. In your case, maybe some physician faculty at UAMS in your state.
This may be very difficult, logistically, if you don’t know anyone (I didn’t know anyone in that realm), but it never hurts to ask. Obviously there are programs that do take students from 6 year programs, or every year UMKC would have no one match lol. But I think your question can have a few different answers based on variations: i.e. the specialty in question you’re shooting for, whether that faculty member has worked with 6 year graduates, etc.
@raggyy, I think Roentgen’s advice is pretty good with asking people outside of UMKC on how 6 year med program graduates are perceived. There are only 2 six-year BA/BS/MD programs left now: UMKC and NEOMED. The rest are all either 7 years or 8 years. I thought this list that @Roentgen may have posted was pretty good:
Thank you @PinkPrincess2014 and @Roentgen! And no @bladerz1, I am also planning on applying to NEOMED plus major Debate colleges (I’m a policy debater) such as Northwestern, Emory, Georgetown, Berkeley, Michigan and Wakeforest.
Its not that someone who wants to do radiation oncology can’t do it just because they come from UMKC, but it becomes harder. Even with excellent stats. The one student that I have heard of that tried this year didn’t match and ended up in IM through the SOAP process.
Since UMKC is not a very top notch academic institution we don’t have cutting edge research that is happening here. So what that leaves us with is to find those resources elsewhere. In the case of dermatology, urology, ENT, radiation oncology, ophthalmology, plastics, neurosurgery etc, you will need to find alternate places.
Ophtho you can do to vision research center, neurosurg and ENT you can go to KU and so it is easier to go to medical school here and still do those research things.
But when it comes to derm, plastics, urology, and rad onc, you need to find another place to do research at that is not in KC physically. That becomes hard to co-ordinate and even harder to pull off while you are in medical school. The students who did match this year did some sort of research elsewhere to compensate for that.
If you can’t find a good research mentor who can help you publish quickly like other students have access to at top tier places, then you have to take a year off to build you resume. Coming from out of state, people don’t really have it in their budget to go away to NIH or another place for a year, live there and build up your CV, but unfortunately that is what is needed to match into top specialities.
What students don’t realize sometimes is that people who are competing for heavily research oriented fields: derm, rad onc, etc, a lot of applicants that you are competing with are BS, MS, MD, PhDs. You just have a BA and a MD from a sub-par institution. So either you need to have a connection or need to build up your CV with research enough so that you compensate for not having that much education.
Does it kind make sense about what I’m saying? Its not that UMKC is a bad place to be, its just that you’re competing against people that are so much more qualified that you have to either take year off to even build your resume up to their level or give up. And doing that becomes difficult if your school (UMKC) does not have the resources you need to do research in your field.
That’s why students either take a year off and work their butt off OR just give up and do an easier specialty.
As @bluegrn6 mentioned, in many of those highly sought after specialties – Radiation Oncology, Dermatology, Integrated Vascular Surgery, Integrated Plastic Surgery, Integrated Cardiothoracic Surgery, Neurosurgery, Urology (and UMKC has no plans to build departments and residency programs in any of those specialties) --> you’re already starting out with a huge disadvantage with no home residency program. You have no one to connect/network with, no one to join and participate in writing up research - even case reports, no one to do a home rotation with. In terms of real guidance and navigating the match for that specialty, you’re very much on your own. Some things you can obviously figure out on your own, but a lot of stuff is things that are only known with past experience, which is where having someone guide you, helps. It’s analogous to being an orphan (lol).
You’re then at the mercy of other players, since not all residency programs at KU, which is in the same city, will be actively mentoring of UMKC students (since they have their own students who are interested in matching to mentor), although I’ve heard that KU Urology/Neurosurg/ENT have been pretty good in the past few years. UMKC, overall, is also not the type to understand, be accommodating, or bend the rules for people who want to go for competitive specialties. They make things unnecessarily hard sometimes by having some “one size fits all” policies – only allowing a certain number of days off for interviews, a certain number of out-of-town electives, etc.
The notable exceptions, in terms of at least having a home program, are Ophthalmology, which now has the Vision Research Center (started in 2007) and Orthopedic Surgery - which now has a very active interest group, and I think more research but not 100% sure about this.
UMKC has several disadvantages:[ul]
[]not being a highly ranked academic institution (see US World News & Report)
[]not having huge amounts of research going on that would be particular to your competitive specialty interest with some very narrow exceptions
[]not many well-known academic residency faculty who have connections outside of UMKC in getting you interviews at other great places and write you letters that are given a lot of weight by others to your application
[]a huge primary care emphasis – all of Year 1 & 2 Docent, Years 3-6 Docent clinics and Docent Rotations – You really don’t get to come into contact with any of the above competitive specialties because it is just not part of the curriculum at UMKC, it’s almost always something you’ve explored on your own
[]UMKC often doesn’t understand the intricacies and needs of students going for competitive specialties, when it comes to things like getting interview days off, number of audition electives needed, etc.[/ul]
It doesn’t mean that disadvantages can’t be overcome ever, but many times you will have to look at reality here in terms of probability and what is available close by.
[ul]
[li]First, you have to make sure that you’ll graduate in 6 years, which is no walk in the park.[/li][]Then you have do well academically in terms of cumulative GPA – again no walk in the park, since it’s over a 6 year period (no summers off by the way!), with each class getting harder in terms of being able to get an “A” – i.e. much easier to get an “A” in Year 1 Anatomy, than say in all 4 sections of Structure Function or in 2 month Pharmacology.
[]Then after you’ve taken the trouble of keeping up a good cumulative GPA, it’s still not over, because you have to do well on USMLE Step 1, at least one standard deviation above the average score. So not only do you have to do well in academics comparison to your class, but then you also have to do well compared to medical students nationally on a standardized exam.
[]You’ll then have to do well on your clinical rotations in terms of getting as many Honors as you can, which at UMKC, I honestly don’t think they do a good job in terms of being clear to students about expectations and what it takes to get Honors or seeing that it’s a good distribution as is done at other medical schools. Even with different docents, the bar for getting Honors from them in terms of clinical evaluations varies a lot.
[li]On top of this, you’ll have to find time to get research in that specialty to publish, and you’ll have to elective rotate as a Year 6 at different places in that specialty and shine there.[/li][/ul]
So it’s many factors together - holistic evaluation, that can determine whether you match or not.
Even if you take a year off (which most Year 1s coming in don’t plan to do, and I don’t recommend coming in with that plan), you’re still competing in the match when you get back, against students from higher ranked schools and as @blugrn6 mentioned, have other “extras” that students at UMKC don’t even get a chance at: MD/MBA, MD with an MS in research, or an MD/PhD, or even if not those, they’ve participated in research throughout 4 years of medical school. That’s not something you can just make up by taking a year off. It will work in your favor obviously, especially if you’ve published, and is better than not doing it at all, but taking a year off and working at the NIH or something you’ve set up at another institution is no guarantee that you’ll match.
@Roentgen, you had said there is no way you would do the 6 year program with out-of-state tuition being what it is now. Would you still do it if you were paying the in-state tuition rate as it is now?
@Blugrn6, @Roentgen, @UMKCRoosMD
How realistic is it to shoot for a 4.0 cumulative GPA after all is said and done in 6 years? I’ll try to take a lot of easy undergraduate courses to really pad my GPA, but are undergraduate science courses, basic sciences thru the med school graded fairly and are course exams fair, especially in terms of grade distribution - a good number of As, Bs, Cs?
Did you feel like the course exam questions were very similar in content and difficulty to your USMLE Step 1 questions?
Are UMKC required clinical rotations graded fairly in terms of the number of people receiving Honors, High Pass, Satisfactory Pass, etc. in Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, Surgery, OB-Gyn, Psychiatry, Family Medicine, Family Medicine Preceptorship?
Even though clinical rotations are graded Honors/High Pass/Satisfactory Pass/Marginal Pass/Fail how does this factor into the GPA exactly?
@bladerz1, you are correct, as I said before, there is no way I would attend the program now, paying $60,443 a year (for simplicity, I’m leaving out Year 1 and 2 which is the “undergrad” portion). Even if I was a Missouri resident paying in-state tuition of $31,147 now, I still would be hesitant to attend. If I was going to pay that much in tuition even as an in-stater (realize that public school tuition is supposed to be a better deal financially because taxpayers subsidize a lot of the cost), for that amount of money, I’d much rather attend the University of Missouri School of Medicine in Columbia in which I would have much greater access to competitive non-primary care specialty residencies.
You can see all the specialties available there that they offer: http://medicine.missouri.edu/departments/ (Their Radiation Oncology program is a division under their Radiology department). Columbia, MO is definitely not a city like Kansas City, MO (it’s pretty much a college town), but the benefits of being at the flagship institution is much greater. Just as an FYI, their 2014-2015 medical school in-state tuition and fees is $29,778.00 in M1 year, $29,778.00 for M2 year, $32,994.00 for M3 year, and $32,942.00 for M4 year: http://medicine.missouri.edu/financial/uploads/WEB-Tuition-2014-2015.pdf
I’ve numbered the rest of my responses below, but for #2 and #3, @blugrn6 will have much more up-to-date information on this.
Hey, guys, just a reminder again for those who have already made their decision to enter the program:
The UMKC Med 2021 Dropbox account, that I created, has our textbooks starting from Year 1. Each person that signs up for Dropbox (you start with 2 GB) through my referral gets an additional 500 MB added to their newly created Dropbox account (it’s free!) and the UMKC Med 2021 Dropbox account gets 500 MB added to it as well. I’ve already had a few people sign up, but needed quite a few more people to get the full 16 GB extra (for a total of 18 GB). The more space I get, the more books I can continue to add which will be helpful for all of us during the 6 years.
Please send me your email either to my Message box or to the gmail account, which is my exact username at gmail. Once you’ve created your Dropbox account through my referral, it will let me know, and I can then send you the link to the UMKC Med 2021 Dropbox account.
Here is @PinkPrincess2014’s listing of the textbooks we use: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18292053#Comment_18292053
I don’t even know how the school determines top 25% of the class for AOA, I think someone posted a link, if not I can find the link for you if you guys are interested. It is based on class rank based on GPA, class rank based on number of honors you have, and then class rank based on both combined. It all a mystery until you get an email your fifth year saying: congratulations you’re in the top 25%, you can apply for AOA. And honestly the list of people that got that email this year there were obvious ones on the list but then there were also some surprises (both part of the top 25% and not part of the top 25%) .
@bladerz1, Just to add to what @blugrn6 said,
So if you do a BA Bio or BA Chem degree, any extra undergraduate science courses that aren’t required by the School of Medicine, but are required by that undergrad degree, won’t count as part of that Science GPA which is calculated by the School of Medicine.
The Science GPA is used only as a promotion measure in the curriculum, so you can’t say at the promotion checkpoint that even though you have below the required 2.8 science GPA, you can get it back up to at least that number once you get to finish the next science class in the sequence. At least for Years 1-2, you extend 1 year automatically.
That’s kind of the one small drawback to taking the AP Chem Test or you take Chem I + Chem I lab at your local college (unless you take it at UMKC or another UM school, then you’re ok), is that you don’t get the “easy” GPA padding of A’s that come with it, since courses get harder after that. That being said, I do think avoiding taking Organic Chem + Organic Chem Lab + Cell Bio together is very worth it in terms of your grades and sanity, so that at least you can semi-enjoy your first summer in the program. You can see the Orgo Chem syllabus for the summer here and see how ridiculously fast it goes in an 8 week period: http://g.web.umkc.edu/gounevt/Orgo320/syllab320i.htm
The junior AOA members who are **inducted/b are usually the top 4 people in the class based on the above criteria. The process of actually being inducted for senior AOA members, is a lot more vague as I’ve even seen people with fantastic board scores not get elected as senior AOA members. Only 1/6th of the entire class, (so in a theoretical Year 6 class of 100 people, that’s about 16 people total) is allowed to be inducted into AOA.
The reason it’s a little mystery throughout is because as you progress through Years 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. you will have no idea your exact ranking. They don’t do the ranking at the end of every year to tell you where you are in the class. That ranking is done unofficially in Year 5/Year 6 for AOA purposes, and then it’s done officially (Latin Honors) right before the end of Year 6 graduation. So you’re really better off doing the very best you can in every class (unless it’s deciding between Self Paced Pharm and USMLE Step 1, in which obviously the latter is much much more important). Just realize that you may not get an “A” or an “Honors” in everything, so don’t beat yourself up over it
Thanks @Blugrn6 and @Roentgen!
I’ll be coming in with quite a bit of credit in the right areas which is applicable to my undergraduate degree so I have a lot of flexibility. I got a 5 on the AP Chem test so I have full credit for General Chemistry I and II.
Do you know for the first summer after Year 1, if you have all the requirements already completed - Organic Chemistry 320, Organic Chemistry 320 Lab, and Cell Biology 202, whether you are allowed to take that summer off and either not enroll in classes or maybe do research somewhere else? I know a Year 1 in the program now who did Cell Bio in the Fall, I think because he came in with a lot of credit also. I was thinking of either doing the SIP program through the NIH: https://www.training.nih.gov/programs/sip, or the SURF program at certain universities: https://www.aamc.org/members/great/61052/great_summerlinks.html, assuming I were selected after applying in the fall. I just didn’t know if the medical school administration is ok with something like this or if they require you to enroll in that summer for classes even if you finished those requirements.
For AOA, after the top quartile of the class is nominated, how exactly are the members selected? Is it just the top GPA/Honors people of that top quartile which then adds up to 1/6th of the class as @Roentgen, mentioned?
Do you know whether Chem 320 + Chem 320 Lab, Cell Bio 202, Genetics 206 are allowed to be taken at other undergraduate universities for transfer? UMKC has the Transferology link on their website: http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/school/umkc, which shows which courses at UMKC are equivalent to courses at other universities for transfer credit. I didn’t know whether the UMKC School of Medicine had a rule that those above courses could only be taken at UMKC. I’ll be taking undergraduate classes at Mizzou in Columbia this summer, so I get credit and GPA, so I’m now narrowing down what I should take.
This is what I know…
You have to do hospital team in the summer after first year, everyone needs to do that and so that is technically a “course” that you have to enroll in. Even though it only takes up 2 weeks.
I also know that Chem 320 that the medical students take is different, like there are no other students in it. Everyone else has a different class that they take that is more extensive than we do. I don’t know if that will transfer over or not.
Other than that I have no information.
Logically, if you can be here for hospital team and leave after there is no reason you cannot do the summer research stuff. But again, UMKC always has secret rules that are not mentioned anywhere.
No one that I know of has done that.
Again, I would say the same for the transfer credits. I don’t know of anybody who took chem 320 or cell bio or genetics the summer before. I just know of people who took chem the summer before.
If you are going to take undergrad courses are Mizzou, why not just take them at UMKC? Then you can definitely get credit for them, no question about it. I’m pretty sure both Cell Bio and Orgo are offered in the summer.
I’m sorry that I am of no better assistance.
I would say this: If you have accepted, then ask your ETC. If you have not accepted than reach out to a first or second year and have them ask for you. I don’t know the year 1 and 2 ETCs, they changed. I can ask the Year 3-6 ETCs if you are having no luck, but they are more useful for medical school stuff rather than the undergraduate stuff. Just let me know if you are having a hard time and I can reach out to someone and find an answer for you.
As for AOA:
So once you qualify you have to do four things:
Then basically all of that gets uploaded to an online file on the UMKC AOA blackboard page that only the selection committee has access to.
I’m assuming that they all take their time to read all the applications, etc.
And then the selection council has a giant meeting at the end of April. Dr. Wooldridge (the medicine residency program director at UMKC), Dr. Foxworth (AOA faculty sponsor), Dr. Brenda Rodgers, Christine Dockweiler, and the four students who got Junior AOA last year are all the people that are on the committee and basically they all decide the four students that get Junior AOA from this class.
Then later in the year, I think the selection committee and the new Junior AOA members select like 7 or so other people from the class for Senior AOA.
How the process works I’m not really sure. I think that they just choose the top 4, but rumor has it that its not necessarily true. I’m not sure of the ranking of the four students that were selected last year, but I know three of them well and all three are super involved in extra curriculars and research at the school in addition to having good grades. I will probably be able to answer that question better once they choose Junior AOA for our class haha.
My understanding is that Hospital Team Experience is a 2 week thing right after Year 1 Spring finals in May according to this - http://med.umkc.edu/curriculum/info/#six, but you’re officially given credit for it in the Summer. Is this no longer the case?
If I do the NIH Summer Internship Program (SIP), the start time can be anytime between mid-May and the end of June, for a minimum commitment of 8 weeks at the NIH, so a 2 month summer. The option of the Summer Undergraduate Research Fellowships (SURF) at different universities are a 10 week commitment and start June 1, so they’d end about 2 weeks before the official start of the Fall Semester of Year 2 at UMKC. I’d pick either option.
The UMKC Chem 320 course (Elementary Organic Chemistry), which is an Organic Chemistry survey course, that you guys take is also taught at other universities as well. It’s CHEM 2050 at Mizzou. I think the more extensive organic courses at UMKC you mentioned are Chem 321/322 which are Organic Chemistry I and II. I already get AP credit for General Chem I and II so taking this over the summer is one option.
I double checked on the UMKC Course Equivalency Website, just to make sure that it transfers:
[UMKC Course Equivalency](BIG-IP logout page)
Alternatively, I was thinking of maybe just doing the BIO 202 equivalent in the summer at Mizzou (BIOSC 2300) so that it would automatically transfer, since you said they might not allow me take it in the Fall of Year 1. There is a Year 1 this year who was able to take Cell Bio 202 in the fall, but I believe he came in with a lot of college transfer credit - I don’t know if this is common though. That would open up my summer to do either one of the summer research opportunities above. If I signed up for Cell Biology 202 in the Fall of Year 1, is there any way they can stop me?
Just some logistic advice, although @blugrn6 will answer your post:
I’m assuming you’re taking undergrad classes this summer at the UM-Columbia campus (vs. UM-Kansas City) because it’s either closer to you or you live in Columbia, MO. There’s just one problem with your plan – At Mizzou, for BIOSC 2300 (which is the course equivalent to BIO 202 at UMKC) the prerequisite to enroll in that course is Genetics (BIOSC 2200) and you wouldn’t have that prerequisite.
Even if you were able to take both Orgo Chem and Cell Bio at Mizzou, there is a slight, but very real, chance that the School of Medicine won’t accept those classes as part of their “School of Medicine Cumulative Science Grade Point Average”: http://med.umkc.edu/docs/coe/COE-Policy-Manual.pdf, and they’ll just make you retake those exact same classes but at UMKC.
It’s an obscure rule: http://www.umkc.edu/catalog/default/Chapter8328.html, but you’ll see here that each academic unit at UMKC can impose additional requirements on their students beyond those the entire University imposes. So I could very well see the medical school as saying that for their internally calculated Science GPA, certain science courses have to be taken in-house. So then you’d have spent money on science classes which you get no credit for. @blugrn6 is correct, you’ll learn and have to get used to, that there are a few “unsaid rules” that won’t be found in any handbook from the school, but will be used to dictate how your curriculum gets put together.
I’ve had classmates who’ve tried very creative ways to change things around and have been stopped dead in their tracks because of some “unsaid” rule or because some student really f’ed up in trying to work around or skirt the rules without telling anyone or petitioning, thus not only being on the school’s s*** list, but also resulting in the creation of an actual new rule barring any future students from doing it. As you progress thru the program, for certain things that are subjective and are up to an administrator(s)'s judgement: when you’re scheduled to take Step 1, the order of your Year 4/5/6 rotations, getting a Study or Readings month when you want it, leaving to enroll in an out-of-city Kaplan course, whether you get selected for AOA or not, etc. and I’m sure there are other scenarios I’m missing, being on the school’s s*** list, especially with some of the higher ups, can really end up hurting you later on when you may (a.k.a. WILL) need their help. Trust me, throughout your 6 years, you want people to be on your side.
I agree with @blugrn6, if you were going to take those courses – Either Chem 320 + Chem 320 Lab or Bio 202 in the summer (Please do not do both before you’ve even started the program, yikes!) it would just be easier to take them at UMKC, in the summer, as then there is no “transfer” necessary, where the other side can possibly say no. You’d be enrolled at UMKC as an Arts & Sciences undergraduate student, because you aren’t officially categorized as a BA/MD student until the Fall. It might be kind of weird though taking classes with mainly Year 2s, lol. There is a possibility that an ETC (as your advisor) could pull you out of that class though.
In 6 years, you will be making many deep and life-long friendships and relationships with people in your BA/MD class. Unlike other public medical schools that can have > 200 people in a med school class, UMKC’s med school classes are usually about 80s-100 people total. Part, if not most, of those friendships are cultivated from taking classes together especially during Year 1/early Year 2 when friend groups start to solidify (or you can call them “cliques”), although things do change at start of Year 3. It starts in Year 1 with Anatomy but as you take more and more classes together, those friendships will become stronger – attending class, taking part in study groups, quizzing and sharing with each other old exams, and just going through things together, etc. It’s a little hard to make friends with your classmates whom you never got to know early on because you didn’t take a lot of classes with them.
This is what I would do personally, although @blugrn6 may have a different take or a better take on the specifics:[ul]
[]Since you already have AP Chem credit for both semesters of General Chemistry, you would be able to take Organic Chem 320 + 320 Lab in Year 1 Spring. Don’t take it this summer, unnecessarily.
[]You very well might be allowed to sign up for Cell Bio 202 in Year 1 Fall, since you said there was someone in this year’s Year 1 class who was able to do so, so there is already prior precedence, and you said you had a lot of credit which is applicable to your degree. You’d also still be at 2 science courses that semester.
[li]If you are told that you can’t take Cell Bio in the 16 week normal semester in the fall, bring up your special reasoning for doing so because of your genuine interest in participating in the NIH SIP or the SURF research program. It’s obviously a different situation than most of your classmates, but a lot of times the difference between being accepted or rejected for things is your actual reasoning behind it: i.e. wanting to do research vs. wanting to lie by the pool all summer.[/li][/ul]
In the best circumstance, even if you finished Cell Bio 202 at UMKC this summer (Summer 2015), if you want to get Year 2 summer “off” (Summer 2016) to where you don’t enroll in any summer classes, even if it is to do research somewhere else, you’ll likely have to petition the Council on Curriculum to get permission.
In the worst case scenario, even with Cell Bio 202 and Organic Chem 320/320L finished, they’ll tell you that you still have to be enrolled in summer classes anyways, so you can either give up and just enroll in some easy courses that still apply to your degree OR take courses that are taught online that semester and maybe still get to participate in your research endeavor. I don’t know whether there are any SOM obligations (mandatory meetings) that happen during that summer - @blugrn6 will know more about this.
Keep in mind, if it’s one thing UMKC is really good at, it’s making sure that they get every bit of tuition $ out of you that they can, and that usually means being enrolled as a full-time student every semester for all 6 years. If so, then this is all a moot point.
Can someone start an actual desicions and stats thread for umkc or is there already one?
@jumpingstar, pretty sure that most of the people who received their decision from the UMKC BA/MD program on March 27th have moved on to their class Facebook page. Also most people are probably still making decisions since May 1st is the deadline to accept. Hopefully after May 1st, people will come back and post their stats and their acceptances (or not) and decision, but that’s completely up to them.