@farehahasan Hmm I wonder if we met today?
The theme song in my head i reaction to above ^^^: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-JHfXVlkik LOL.
@Roentgen LOL
anyone have the interview Thursday?
Hey @NervousDad01, Imma let you finish (hat tip Kanye) looking at @AtticusFinchh’s posts above that explains it more accurately, but it looks like in terms of being able to ask questions and get information, you have more than enough time to be able to do that on interview day and probably if you decide to go on the tours as well, which I think you should.
So you can ask questions to several people:
- Current BA/MD students (Years 1-6) - see below
- Medical school faculty (clinicians/basic science faculty/administration)
- Alumni (those who have graduated - both in the past and recently)
As you can imagine, their opinions won’t all be of equal value to you (you may not even have access to all of them anyways), but it’s always good to ask as many people as you can, to get their views on different aspects of the school that are important to you and your son. That being said, your time to ask questions and get answers should not just be on interview day. Remember after April 1, you get about 1 month to decide whether or not to accept the offer. Even if you end up going the traditional route, these same questions will pop up again in some form, when you’re evaluating different medical schools, so you’ve already done a lot of the legwork already.
One of the huge benefits I think in terms of finding information about the UMKC program in particular is that almost everyone who attends here is a combined BA/MD student (MD onlys, who are traditional applicants, only serve to make up for any BA/MD attrition that occurs in Years 1-2 to bring the class size back up to the original number).
So here are the aspects of the school that I think each year is good at giving you a relatively accurate and realistic picture of:[ul]
[li]Year 1: The Docent Experience, coursework, undergraduate student life, Financial Aid available at undergrad level[/li][li]Year 2: The Docent Experience, coursework, undergraduate student life, some of the beginning basic science classes (Biochem & HSF), maybe research, maybe med school organizations, Financial aid available at undergrad level[/li][li]Year 3: Docent Clinic, basic sciences (the above + Micro, Neuro, Path), learning physical diagnosis skills, Research, Specialty Interest Groups, Med School Organizations, Financial Aid[/li][li]Year 4: Docent Clinic/Docent Rotation (DoRo), basic sciences (the above + Pharm, Behavioral), USMLE Step 1, Research, Specialty Interest Groups, Med School Organizations Financial Aid[/li][li]Year 5: Docent Clinic/Docent Rotation (DoRo), Year 5 required clerkships, Specialty Matching resources, USMLE Step 1, Research, Specialty Interest Groups, Med School Organizations, Financial Aid[/li][li]Year 6: Any and all of the above + USMLE Step 2, any and everything about the residency Match, Financial Aid[/ul][/li]So, for example, don’t be asking a poor Year 2 student about the USMLEs or DoRo – they’ll will have no useful information to give you, since they haven’t experienced that part of the curriculum yet. Obviously with a graduating Year 6 or an alum, you can ask all these things, and you’ll have the added benefit of getting their perspective AND retrospective, although their memory may be faint in certain areas. You also will have the benefit of getting their opinion when they are no longer under the auspices of the university.
If you’re going to contact an alum, I would go by recent match lists that have been posted in this thread and on the UMKC Med website. Many of those who have matched will have done so at university affiliated programs and thus will have a university email. Universities tend to have directories which you can then search the name. I would then type an email and then politely introduce yourself, tell who you are, tell them you’re trying to find out more information on the program and that you noticed that they graduated from the program, and would like to get their perspective whenever it is convenient for them. If you want, you can give them your phone number to contact you when convenient as that will probably much easier. Remember, if it’s an intern/resident, they’re very crunched for time in their life with their 80+ hour work weeks. They’re doing you a favor, and likely contacting you on their “off” day from residency or maybe post-call.
If you or your son are going to contact a current BA/MD student (I would have your son do thism since he’s the one who be going thru the program), he can probably go on the Facebook UMKC BA/MD group class pages they have now, and send a message to whomever he feels comfortable asking. Again, he needs to introduce himself, tell that he’s trying to find out more information, yada yada. Since you said you’re out-of-state, he should get in contact with those who are out-of-state first, although in-state people are also good to talk to as well, but may not be as well-informed of the finances that those in the regional/out-of-state category have to deal with.
More likely than not, on average, UMKC students/alumni will respond to you with their opinions, perspective, and be more than happy to answer any questions you may have about the program when you contact them. I’ve never met a student or alum from UMKC who didn’t want to help at all in any way, shape or form, to those who are trying to find out about the program. The more people you ask, the more you’ll be able to see trends and commonalities from their answers.
@NervousDad01 - some good links with regards to comparing and looking at med schools:[ul]
[]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReuhUWHV2sM
[]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pja8VKZJBVo
[]http://www.studentdoctor.net/2014/06/top-factors-to-consider-when-comparing-medical-schools/
[]https://dornsife.usc.edu/assets/sites/1/docs/advising/prehealth/New_Logo-35_Questions.pdf (“35 Questions I Wish I had Asked” - Adopted from the AAMC)[/ul]
So these are questions that I’ve put together both from going thru this thread from the beginning, PMs I’ve gotten from CCers about the program, as well as questions I remembered parents/students had asked in the past, as well as modified from the 35 Questions AAMC link above. Many of these you can possibly find answers to on the website as well. And of course, this isn’t an all-inclusive list.
PART 1
General[ul]
[]What do you think are the positives of the program in your view?
[]What do you think are the negatives of the program in your view?
[]If you could do it all over again, would you still do the UMKC BA/MD program, some other combined program, or the traditional route?
[]What insight do you think you have now about medicine or the BA/MD program, that maybe you didn’t have or wish you had coming in from high school?[/ul]
Undergraduate curriculum itself[ul]
[]What undergraduate majors are currently allowed within the Bachelor/MD combined program? What major do most students end up choosing?
[]Which semesters are students allowed to take undergraduate coursework?
[]How many credit hours can students take of elective undergraduate courses, that are outside of the required undergraduate coursework?
[]If a student wants to choose an undergraduate degree outside of Bio/Chem/Liberal Arts, like Business, Engineering, Political Science, etc. with their MD, is that feasible within the six year program? If it is allowed, but requires more years in the program, would I get to pay undergraduate rate tuition for those extra years when I’m taking undergraduate coursework?
[]How did you feel regarding the pace/intensity of the program in the first 2 years? Too fast/too slow/about right?
[]Why do BA/MD students not take 1 year of General Bio, General Physics, Organic Chemistry plus labs? [this always gets asked since traditionally and in most combined programs these premed requirements are still taken by students)
[]How much holiday time do students get in Years 1 & 2?[/ul]
Student Life & Student Body[ul]
[li]How diverse is the class (race, gender, economics)?[/li][]How active or involved are BA/MD students on the undergraduate Volker Campus when it comes to student organizations?
[]Are BA/MD students able to join a UMKC sports team? If so, which ones have been done in the past?
[]What fun activities are available for students in Kansas City or the surrounding areas?
[]How well integrated are BA/MD students with the undergraduate campus students and in what way (i.e. classes, events, etc.)
[]Are students able to sign up for a part-time job to relieve expenses, while in the program?
[]How do students find balance within the program?
[]How safe is the Volker and medical school campuses? How safe is the city?[/ul]
Year 1 & 2 Docent Experience[ul]
[]Which hospitals do students rotate at for their Year 1-2 Docent experience?
[]How often and how long do they meet for?
[]What are students actually doing and learning during Docent?
[]Is it the same Docent both years or only in the first year?
[]Is it similar to shadowing done by traditional premed students?[/ul]
Financial aid:[ul]
[li]Why are students charged at the School of Medicine rate while taking undergraduate classes, instead of the undergraduate rate, in the first 2 years [this almost always gets asked by parents as there is some confusion in how the tuition bill is tabulated][/li][li]Are students in the first 2 years eligible for undergraduate level university sponsored scholarships?[/li][]What university sponsored scholarships are available to BA/MD students?
[]Are regional/out-of-state students eligible for any university sponsored scholarships?
[]What is the average level of debt load that BA/MD students graduate with? [keep in mind there will be quite a few students whose parents pick up the entire bill so their debt level will be $0, which will naturally bring the average debt level figure down]
[]Total amount given in grants [don’t have to be paid back], loans [have to be paid back w/interest], scholarships [don’t have to be paid back]
[li]What requirements have to be met in order to eventually qualify for in-state tuition, if that is possible?[/li][]Is there financial guidance and advising available for students as they progress through the program?[/ul]
Extension (taking longer than the 6 years) and Attrition (leaving the program altogether) - keep in mind some people may end up eventually doing both:[ul]
[]Why do people extend in the program?
[]Why do people leave the program?
[]What has been the percent extension in the last 6 years, both at the Year 1-2 level and then at the Year 3-6 level?
[]What has been the percent attrition in the last 6 years, both at the Year 1-2 level and then at the Year 3-6 level?
[]If the percentages are HIGH → Why do you think those rates are high?
[]What has the school done to try to bring these rates down?
[]What resources does the school offer to students when they find themselves in academic trouble?
[]How involved is the school/professors when a student gets into academic trouble initially?
[]How transferable are courses to other institutions, if a student decides to leave the program?[/ul]
The medical school curriculum[ul]
[li]Is the basic science curriculum traditional subject based or organ system based?[/li][]What is the grading system for basic science coursework and required clerkships?
[]Are lectures during the basic science years recorded? (https://www.aamc.org/download/268838/data/lecture_video_recording_and_attendance.pdf)
[]Is there a mandatory lecture attendance policy? (see link above)
[]How well do you think your basic science coursework and class exams prepared you when it came to your boards? What aspect of your basic science education do you think should change to help future students in this regard?
[]Do students get to dissect cadavers in the required Anatomy course? [this question ALWAYS gets asked every year as long as grass is green]
[*]Have there been any recent changes or will there be changes in the near future of the BA/MD curriculum?[/ul]
PART 2
Docent Clinic in Years 3-6[ul]
[]Are the docent clinics in Internal Medicine only or in other specialties?
[]How are students able to participate and function in outpatient Internal medicine clinics, while they are still learning basic sciences and haven’t taken Step 1 [this question tends to come up as most traditional schools have all their required clinical clerkships in the 3rd year, after 2 years of basic sciences is completed]
[]How does teaching and learning work within the docent and docent team?[/ul]
Docent Rotation in Years 4-6[ul]
[li]How are students able to participate and function in inpatient Internal Medicine, while they are still learning basic sciences and haven’t taken Step 1 [this question tends to come up as most traditional schools have all their required clinical clerkships in the 3rd year, after 2 years of basic sciences is completed][/li][li]How does teaching work with the docent and docent team?[/ul][/li]Standardized exams (USMLE Steps)[ul]
[li]Is taking and passing Step 1 required for promotion to take required clerkships [different policies at different med schools - some have you take it later after finishing clerkships][/li][li]What external resources does the school provide to students when it comes to helping them prepare for the USMLE exams?[/li][]What is in place at the school so that a student can assess early on whether they are on track when it comes to being prepared for the USMLE exam, as they are progressing thru the early years of the program?
[]What have been the average Step 1/Step 2 scores in the last 6 years?
[]What have been the % pass rates for Step 1/Step 2 in the last 6 years?
[]How does the school help students who do not pass a Step on their first attempt?
[]How much time do students get after classes are over to study for Step 1?
[]When do students take Step 1 and Step 2 in the curriculum?[/ul]
Required Clerkships[ul]
[li]Which hospitals do students rotate at for their Year 5 required rotation clerkships?[/li][]How do students plan/decide the order of their clerkships?
[]What is the role of med students on clerkships?
[]Do med students write patient notes, follow patients, and present them, or is their role tend to be more shadowing in nature?
[]How well do your required clerkships prepare you for Step 2? In what way?[/ul]
Specialty Selection[ul]
[li]How much elective time do students get in the program?[/li][]How many months can students do electives at other institutions outside of UMKC?
[]In which specialties is UMKC strong in? In which specialties is UMKC weak in?
[]What resources do students have available to them when it comes to narrowing down specialties and eventual specialty selection?
[]What resources/opportunities/options are available to students who wish to go for specialties that may not be directly available at UMKC?
[]What resources/opportunities/options are available for the undecided student?
[]How are students mentored when it comes to career exploration, specialty selection?[/ul]
Student Affairs[ul]
[li]Do students, as a whole, feel supported by the medical school faculty, administration?[/li][]Is the medical school responsive to concerns or complaints from BA/MD students?
[]Do students feel they can genuinely voice their complaints and concerns? If so, how do they do that - email, evaluations?
[]What changes have been made in response to address student concerns/complaints/evaluations since you started attending?
[]What mental health and/or wellness services are offered by the medical school for students?[/ul]
Research[ul]
[li]What options are available for students in clinical & basic science research?[/li][]Are BA/MD students involved in research on the Volker undergraduate campus?
[]How much NIH funding does the medical school get?
[]How do BA/MD students get involved in research if they’ve never done it before?
[]If a student is looking for research in a particular medical specialty that is not available at UMKC, what are their plausible options?
[]If a student wishes to take a year off to do research, how amenable is the school to doing this? Are there any caveats to doing this?
[]How are students mentored when it comes to starting getting involved in research?[/ul]
Match Lists[ul]
[li]Residency specialties that students match into[/li][]Geographic region that majority of students match into
[]Tier of institutions that majority of students match into (top/middle/bottom)
[]Percentage who go into primary care vs. specialty care
[*]Percentage who go unmatched; Percentage who only match into an internship --> What guidance is given to these students?[/ul]
@Roentgen, you are an incredible person, thank you so much. I just printed this out just now and the 35 questions “I wish I had asked” for my son to also take a look over before his interview on Thursday. I feel much more prepared now, since we likely won’t be able to fly back for a second look visit to UMKC later. Thank you for your continued guidance, explanations, and kindness in our journey for all of us in exploring these programs. ^:)^
@farehahasan Yes, you will have more than enough time. Also, don’t fear about the questions because some of the parents will be over-prepared in the questions (and won’t stop) and some will be under-prepared. Many of those questions were asked by various parents and some were not as you can imagine. I suggest you asking some of the detailed questions to administration and during the morning orientations be the admissions/studentaffairs/finaid offices as they will be better at answering those. The student panel is best for asking questions about student opinions and experiences like the categories @Roentgen mentioned because there will be some technical questions that students will not be sure how to answer.
Trust me, you’ll do great! It’s nice to see some of the parents taking more initiative for their kids because I noticed that some parents were not sounding interested at all and looked like they were there just to babysit, be the taxi-driver, or act like a personal assistant for their child–not that those are bad things.
I remember a parent telling my mom. “First I want to focus on my daughter getting admitted, then we will worry about the details and questions. I don’t know why they are wasting our time”! Wow! Quite an attitude!
Glad you are ready!
I also had the opportunity outside of the interview day to ask questions to alumni (new and old) about the program and also current students throughout the range of years. Again, you just have to seek them out; many are happy to discuss about their alma mater.
Good luck to your child!
@AtticusFinchh, maybe I misread but I believe @farehahasan has already completed the interview. I think you might have meant it for @NervousDad01?
Not that I am attributing that parent’s sentiment to you, @AtticusFinchh, but I can understand the initial raw sentiment by some parents, and even applicants, to say that they’ll ask all of these questions AFTER the acceptance comes in. To them, they maybe can’t understand why people are asking all this stuff, since they don’t have the building blocks of understanding to know why it is being asked in the first place. When you can’t understand why it’s being asked, you tend to dismiss it much more easily. You’ve kind of prepared for this one moment on interview day, so asking questions can seem so very superfluous. I know, because I was like that - although we didn’t have these student forums or anything on interview day. You pretty much asked the student giving the tour (we had it before our interviews), but let’s face it, no one’s going to ask questions then, while you’re trying to concentrate and mentally prepare yourself for your traditional interview.
In retrospect though, it was very foolhardy to think that way and do that. My parents are not in medicine, so they didn’t know what to ask, and for me, it was the only 6 year combined program I got an interview to (You can see my post from before, but I didn’t apply to 7 or 8 year programs since there was no real time “saved” in my head and some I felt were just too competitive). But as you guys who have followed this thread have seen – evaluating a medical school as an applicant is not easy at all. There are so many rotating gears and parts that work together to make a medical school function, and more importantly to help you towards your desired individual specific career goals, and you have to make this decision all at 17/18 years old. It’s a lot to have to take in and process when you’re just trying to cope with getting thru your interview.
You and your parent will never get this type of opportunity again, in terms of a real out in the open forum to ask questions one on one to UMKC BA/MD students and admissions directly. Also once you get an acceptance, I promise you guys (and gals), your judgement will be a lot more clouded. Any information you get about the program then, you’ll be looking at thru the lens of having been accepted. You may almost feel obligated in a way to go, esp. if it is your only acceptance, since you took all this effort to fill out the application, write the essays/personal statement, ask for reference forms to be filled out, buy a suit, prepare for interviews, yada yada. It’s very common to feel internal twinges of obligation to go (even maybe some guilt) after an acceptance from this program. All the more reason to have this information NOW before that decision comes out. You don’t have to act on it, but you have the information there written down and from that information, you can later make an informed decision, rather than an impulsive or irrational decision and then really regretting it later.
The people who end up accepting their combined offer without knowing these things about the program or maybe have the attitude of “I don’t care what combined program I get into, as long as I get into one,” tend to be much more disappointed later for a variety of reasons, and as you can imagine, this probably contributes to attrition.
So **TL;DR/b, it’s a common mistake to say that you’ll ask all your questions and get the details once you get an acceptance in hand. Take advantage of what you’re being given. Ask your questions that are of concern to you, write the answers down in a little notebook, you can then look at it again once the decisions come out.
@Roentgen Yeah, that was actually meant for @NervousDad01, my laptop shut down in the middle so I must have missed that.
I was just noting something I heard a parent tell my mom, not trying to sound standoffish and completely understand what you’re saying here. It is really important to know and ask questions during the admissions process and definitely before committing to the program. I did read your entire explanation even though you had the TL;DR at the end. Ha, ha.
Just to post this again for people, http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/finance/, the BA/MD website has now been updated with the 2015-2016 cost of attendance figures from this year.
For parents/applicants who may want to print this out and bring it to the interview to look at when they are doing financial aid stuff, these figures are also from 2015-2016, although it has a much greater breakdown of the total cost of attendance:
In-State: http://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site2/forms/coa/Resident-(BA-MD).pdf
Regional: http://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site2/forms/coa/Regional-(BA-MD).pdf
Out-of-State: http://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site2/forms/coa/Non-Resident-(BA-MD).pdf
Scholarships: http://med.umkc.edu/sa/finance/som_scholarships/
I wish CC allowed the showing of gifs in a post, as these are much more fun: http://i.imgur.com/gRQU0qc.gif (first part is http:// i . i m g u r . c o m /)
@Roentgen HAHAHA, this is too funny!
On a side note, I forgot to mention they did go over scholarship opportunities and also handed out a cost worksheet that you could fill out as they presented the finaid presentation. I will scan it in tomorrow as a resource applicants could use now and in the future.
Hello all! I’m a junior from Oklahoma School of Science and Mathematics and this program at UMKC has been my dream since 6th grade and i was wondering if i even have a chance of making it to the interview. so here are my stats:
ACT :28
Class Rank: n/a my school doesn’t rank
GPA: school doesn't do gpa BUT if i count the courses as AP: 4.54 and as Pre-AP: 4.29
AP Exams: AP Calculus AB
–
Awards:
Completed Level O of Kumon Math
Oklahoma Distinction Award
(will most likely get presidential service award)
Foundation Award
Leadership:
Youth program leader at Oklahoma Hindu Temple
Youth group leader at Oklahoma Telugu Sangham
Activities:
Spanish Club
NHS
Key Club
Health Occupations of Students of America
Tutoring kids at El Sistema
Health Experiences:
Volunteered at hospital for over 100 hours
(will start mentorship at OU health sciences center in a couple of weeks)
(will apply to the summer scholars program at UMKC)
Essays: tbh, i probably won’t suck on my essays too much
Recommendations: kinda Strong
before going to OSSM i went to both Deer Creek High School and Francis Tuttle Biosciences and Medicine Academy simultaneously in 9th and 10th grade. my gpa before was 4.38 at those schools combined.
All the health related courses I’ve ever taken-
Anatomy and Phys., Human Body Systems, and Principles of Biomedical sciences, genetics, and embryology
Thank you and I REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate it!! 
P.S. it would be nice if i could get feedback on what to work on and/or any specific involvements which would make me stand out.
You can see the application for this cycle, 2015-2016, posted in the thread, which starts here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18737712/#Comment_18737712.
Since you’re in the regional pool, you do have a higher chance than an out-of-state student, just based on the number of slots, however the stats between the two groups tend to be pretty similar. You can see here, https://www.umkc.edu/admissions/docs/2009MedApplication.pdf, “Regional and Out-of-State Residents - The average accepted regional or out-of-state applicant has an ACT score of 30 and a rank within the top 5% of the graduating class.” And that was back in the 2008-2009 cycle. So while they may no longer be looking at class rank, I would say that ACT score is relatively accurate.
So first, UMKC doesn’t look at AP exams. Those will only be looked at after you’ve gotten an acceptance and used for credit purposes.
I think doing the Summer Scholars Program at UMKC will definitely help, although I thought it was only for students around the KC area (or at least in-state students): http://med.umkc.edu/summerscholars/, but I could be wrong. Are you sure your school doesn’t do class rank OR GPA? I don’t understand how else your transcript can be evaluated without those metrics, or at least one of them.
So several things I noted:[ul]
[]Do you have any leadership positions in school? Maybe being officer of a club or organization, or in sports, theatre or music?
[]You also need a lot more healthcare experiences in total as well as in terms of number hours, which you’ve probably already figured out and are working on now. There are a variety of things you can do: physician shadowing, cancer & blood drives, physician scribing, working with the disabled and the elderly, etc. You can see on the application for examples.[/ul]
I would say those are the 2 glaring weaknesses in your CV.
Unfortunately, based on how the application is now, there is no section for number of Honors/Awards that you have gotten, although I don’t understand why this information is not asked for.
Your recommendations won’t be letters. They will have to fill out an online reference form which will look similar to this: https://www.umkc.edu/admissions/docs/2009MedApplication.pdf (See page 17 out of 24)
Here are Some Useful Documents for Current and Future Applicants (Given in Interview Packet):
•This is a Finances Worksheet you can fill out to estimate expenses - 2015-2016: http://i01.imgup.net/IMG_2014b89e.JPG
•2015 Incoming Class Statistics: http://c41.imgup.net/IMG_2015d97b.JPG
**•Helpful Questions to Ask about the 6 Year Program by UMKC itself! **– http://b78.imgup.net/IMG_20164278.JPG
**•Bachelor Degree Options Course Information: ** – http://z60.imgup.net/IMG_20174397.JPG
Hope it’s helpful to some; I know some of the information is scattered online, but still useful nonetheless.
Thank you, @atticusfinchh! I really liked the estimated education expenses worksheet that parents can work thru on their own on interview day, esp. some of those “other expenses” that we all tend to not think about as much – groceries/gas/transportation (i.e. car repairs, tune ups, etc.).
Those class statistics it looks like are for the entire class (in-state + regional + out-of-state) together. In-state - 70/116 = 60%; Regional - 30/116 = 26%; Out-of-State - 16/116 = 14%. It’s also good to know for future applicants on CC that under the “Holistic Review of Applications” they are looking at UNweighted High School GPA in conjunction with the rigor of high school curriculum (so you can’t “cheat” the system with a straight 4.0 in all on-level, regular courses when there are more advanced classes available at your school).
For the recommended questions, some of the answers can be found here: http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/faqs/.
I believe out of all of those handouts, the only one on the actual website is this one: http://med.umkc.edu/docs/admissions/DegreeOptions.pdf, so all of this is new information which will definitely be useful to CCers. Thank you!
its true! we don’t do gpa or class rank but on my transcript it’ll have a recommended gpa scale so colleges can choose if they want to base it off of that or not. but thanks a lot!!
Did anyone else get sent back to the prep station early before the 6 minutes were up multiple times? I know that this isn’t a bad thing, but I was just curious