@Watang, no worries. However I did not get sent back once. I even thought 6 minutes were short as I could have kept talking on and on about the things they asked as well as the follow up questions! A few interviewers even said “Good job” to me multiple times at the end. Not that it’s a sign or something. However, I don’t think ending early is a bad thing, but I’m kind of surprised as they all had follow-up questions they had in front of them and the fact that you finished early surprises me. However, maybe your answers were just so precise and to the point that it was a good thing! Good luck.
@watang, I don’t think that by itself necessarily means anything just because each station is completely separate and independent of eachother. I’m sure they have x number of possible standardized followup questions after the initial prompt depending on the direction of the answer, after which it’s like do I have the person just sit here for the rest of the time and have both of us be awkward or have them go back to the prep area? lol. It’s not like one of the competencies being graded on is how long you can this person talk his/her head off. Remember this isn’t a traditional interview where there is more of a back and forth.
So unless you had a very bad body odor problem, where it wasn’t worth hearing your answer, I agree with @AtticusFinchh, that you could have just been very precise and to the point and still hit the all same points.
@Roentgen Yeah I was definitely precise and to the point with the two interview stations that I was sent back early in
@Watang, yeah, I don’t think you’ll be penalized for getting to the point and being precise AS LONG AS you hit the points you were supposed to and got the competency that was being tested (and you do get partial credit, it’s not all or no points), and seemed amenable to further discussion if necessary. You’re not expected to be perfect and so 1-2 station flubs (if that was your perception, which I’m not saying it is) wouldn’t tip the scales to automatically. I don’t think it’s necesary either to be like the girl in the Youtube video who talked for an entire 8 minutes without interruption about a gym keypad. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they had a set number of followup questions already written for them, that they have to ask in the interview. The MMI is very standardized, almost annoyingly so.
Also, as I expected, the station scenarios/prompts for the MMI at UMKC have to be adjusted, modified, or tailored somewhat when it comes to which ones to select to use for UMKC’s applicant population which is a group of 17/18 year old high school seniors. Very smart, hard-working, high-achieving high school seniors, but still 17/18 year olds nonetheless. For example, it would be hard to use a lot of the Obamacare oriented or medical economics oriented MMI prompts for discussion, in this select population of applicants.
Obviously I can’t get into specifics, but I feel that I really hit the points needed in the two stations as they were very straightforward to me
@Watang, were those the only 2 stations in which you got to leave earlier than the fully allotted 6 minutes? I think you should be fine, if that’s the case. The MMI really isn’t there to trick you when it comes to the actual interpretation of the prompt itself (like pertinent details being left out) or second-guessing the questions being asked (Ok, I know he’s asking me this, but is he really asking me this other question or looking for this answer?). I mean don’t go off the wall and say in a scenario about someone you see cheating on an exam (completing making up this scenario in my head right now) deserves physical harm or the death penalty either. lol.
The hardest part when it comes to these scenarios, is trying to know the competency being tested, and in all honesty, you don’t need to know what that exact competency is necessarily, before coming up with an answer, as chances are you’d end up being too scripted anyways. Hence why doing what you would want an “ideal” physician/person to do or behave (let’s assume they are brilliant with all the intelligence in the world) is usually the best rule of thumb. It’s very Marcus Welby like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Welby,_M.D., and not House M.D. like.
@Roentgen Yep those were the only two!
Now that interviews are over, you can all relax … well at least until closer to the end of the month … hehe
Also wanted to say it was so nice meeting some of you! You’re all so qualified I wouldn’t want the admissions committee’s job to have to pick among ya’ll!
This is something similar from McMaster University (the developer of the MMI back in 2001): https://fhs.mcmaster.ca/mdprog/documents/InterviewerManualFull2012-13forWEBSITE.pdf (See page 10), you’ll see there is a 1-10 scale used as well on the scoring sheet, although it’s more an overall score. I’m sure at UMKC each station has it’s own particular grading sheet with the specific competency that it is tested along with other attributes that have a 1-10 scale for each. There isn’t one static grading sheet for all MMIs. Overall doesn’t really change your approach to each station from the applicant perspective.
^^^^By one static grading sheet for all MMIs, that I said above, I mean for all MMIs done across the nation.
@AtticusFinchh How did you happen to get a picture of the rubric that the interviewers used?
@AtticusFinchh Lmao you’re a savage if you actually took a picture during the interview
Hey guys, just for much needed clarification (as there seems to be some confusion), the picture is from here on instagram thru the UMKC Student Union: https://www.i n s t a g r a m.com/explore/locations/218060776/ (5th row, 1st picture). He’s the Assistant Dean for Years 1 & 2 BA/MD students: http://med.umkc.edu/school-of-medicine-announces-new-assistant-dean-for-years-1-and-2-medicine/. Clearly he was very excited and proud to get to interview you guys and wanted to save the moment for memories. No actual rubric was shown.
So in the words of Cheri O’Teri’s character from SNL in the late 90s/early 2000s with appropriate wardrobe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivC5fvFnfS0
@AtticusFinchh, thank you for your advice in asking questions to the right people. Overall it was a very good experience for both of us and my son said it was very fair, and all the practicing beforehand had helped. He even enjoyed it. I liked going on the scheduled rotations and the tours also as well. I’m glad I didn’t have to just sit all day. The Student Union looks very nice inside.
The parents had a lot of very good questions on @Roentgen’s list as well as detailed questions of their own, so I didn’t have to ask as many as I thought. I think all parents really wanted to find out everything about this program that they could, and took the lead. There were some who didn’t want to ask any questions also. The admissions staff was very helpful to the parents, and I was glad that I didn’t have to just sit all day. Lunch was also very tasty. A little weird thing is when people started asking some harder questions to the current students on the panel, they looked to get very nervous and had to pause and think a little before responding. Maybe they didn’t know the answer off hand or maybe I’m reading too much into it, but that felt a little weird. There was a lot of emphasizing of clinical exposure on Day 1, 6 years, no MCAT. I think you’re right though, the students are much better to hear their experiences of the program and the admissions people are better for details and stats.
@Roentgen, 2 questions, one is a little bit embarrassing to ask, but do a lot of the students in the 6 year BA/MD program end up either getting engaged or married with other classmates or colleagues? Also can you explain about students and dissecting and some of the questions you said parents always ask on your list? It may have been discusssed, but I was writing all things down so fast I might have missed those, and thought I could just ask you on that instead.
@NervousDad01 No problem, I hope you aren’t a “nervous” dad anymore! It’s really nice to see parents taking the initiative to post questions on the forum and also be so involved by “writing all things down so fast”!
Also, as nervous as you may be (or perhaps anxious for a decision at this point), please also do remember (if you’ve forgotten) that it’s probably your child’s last year at home! You mentioned you are out of state: I suggest you all enjoy your time and make some memories during his senior year of school; most likely if your son gets accepted he’ll be away from home pretty soon.
One last thing, I don’t know if you are doing this or not, but it’d be nice if you please tell your son how proud of him you are for him getting to this point. I know sometimes during the college admission process, we (parents and children) often get so involved with comparing themselves to other students that we often forget to reflect on our very own achievements throughout life. I hope you are radiating your positive energy and excitement to your son in a happy and excited way! It’s always nice to have supporting parents who are always (most of the time) encouraging and looking at the bright side! I know your son (would appreciate that)/(is appreciating that)!
Thanks for sharing your reflection on the interview; it’s nice to see a parent’s view!
Playing matchmaker for your son already? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlCQjI_QXMI) Geez, I hope you weren’t getting numbers for him – he needs to do that on his own. LOL. j.k. I would say our track record is pretty bad in terms of an assured engagement/marriage thing (sorry to disappoint any applicant parents out there if you saw someone that might look cute with your son or daughter). I mean are there people who by the time they end up being in Year 6 are engaged or married? Yes. But it isn’t this huge trend in the class as you might think. I think part of that is because: a) we’re all about 24 when we graduate, which is still quite young, b) we’ve been around each other in classes, rotations, for what can feel like 6 long years so the “magic” has worn off, c) medical school and its stresses tends to be pretty bad on relationships in general, much less a 6 year accelerated combined program. For some people, it makes their relationships stronger, but more often it can be quite detrimental overall, and d) the national residency match process in which you interview across the country, turn in a rank list to a computer algorithm which decides a match and thus where you will be living for the next 3 to 7 years (depending on residency selected), which can impact whether it is worth continuing the relationship.
Realize in a traditional 4+4 type of setup, you go to college for 4 years, have your fun in terms of relationships, then enter med school and meeting a whole different set of peoplem when you’re (in theory) much more “serious”. In the 6 year program, in many ways there is no real wiping the slate clean in terms of the people you will be around, and you go thru a lot of personal growth and hard knocks from age 18 to 24. Just a fun fact, in terms of gender, most of the UMKC BA/MD class tends to be female. I don’t think that is what the school intentionally selects for (that I know of), it’s just who ends up being in the class. So a lot of guys and girls by the end, end up being at most, really good, close friends.
Don’t get me wrong there is plenty of dating (and other relations, lol) that go on between those in the same class and those in different classes, but I think the hop to being engaged or married is a commitment that few BA/MD students jump into, especially with another UMKC BA/MD student.
I think talking with both students and admissions staff was a good move on your part, @NervousDad01, on interview day. It’s true that in terms of getting the stats and numbers type of information that parents may be interested in – whether that’s USMLE scores, extension & attrition percentages, match lists: % who go into certain specialties, etc. talking with the admissions staff is best. Students on a panel are not going to have those things memorized or have them on hand to access. They may be able however to tell you the reason behind those things above, based on their personal observations of either their classmates or upperclass(wo)men who have preceded them, esp. since at Year 3 you are put on a Docent team with people from Years 3-6.
Students are best to talk to, with regards to their own perspective and personal experiences of having gone thru the program, up to whatever year level they are at currently. They can tell you about the quality of their coursework/clerkships and teaching faculty (both basic science and clinical), about certain medical school services that are offered and how useful they really are to students, the quality/quantity of research available for UMKC med students, their experience in the match process, or they can discuss in general about the environment - student life balance, the interactions of the student body with the medical school administration, whether they feel like it’s a supportive environment vs. an adversarial environment, etc. Just realize they are coming from THEIR OWN perspective/opinion. That in itself can be influenced by a whole variety of factors: whether they are in-state/out-of-state, what their eventual specialty goals are (primary care vs. non-primary care, generalist vs. specialist/subspecialist), whether they are from a rural or urban area, etc. Remember, these are also people who have volunteered to speak in a public forum about the school to incoming applicants, which will also skew the opinions you’ll be getting (called selection bias). Hence the reason why it’s important to ask and talk with as many people as you can, as I mentioned before.
For any medical school, you could have the best program in terms of how it looks like on paper, but the student probably has the best view as to how it actually plays out on the ground since they are the most affected. Something can sound really great in theory, but it can be absolute chaos when it is carried out, especially if it is a new curriculum change.
So I’ll answer the questions that you mentioned from my list, that might have been answered in the thread in the past:
1) Why do BA/MD students not take 1 year of General Bio, General Physics, Organic Chemistry plus labs?
Honestly, I think the reason we don’t take those courses, or at least not a full year, is because we have no way to fit it into the 6 year program, at least the way it is currently structured. The first 2 years is already packed to capacity in terms of credit hours and now you are credit hour limited in Years 1-2 (it wasn’t that way before, although it was highly discouraged if you took way too many more hours), in terms of allowed enrollment per semester, which now includes your Pass/Fail classes of Docent, Med Term, etc. going towards that limit. Year 1 Anatomy is there to later build on for HSF, and Year 1 Micro is there to later build on for Med Micro, even though the time lapse between the courses is quite huge. But we do enter Cell Bio and Genetics without having completed the prerequisite General Bio I & II that is usually required for undergraduate students who take those same courses.
So while those requirements may be beneficial for our students especially the General Biology requirement, we just have no where to really place it without being enrolled in 25-30 credit hours which is patently ridiculous. Do I think students are at a disadvantage? I think for those who took AP Bio, AP Physics, etc. in high school they were probably ok, although I think we all would have liked to sort of start from scratch and go thru and review the material again in college. Everyone likes repetition and familiarity. It would also probably be good to have more foundational undergrad hours contributing to our overall science GPA, vs. the so little we have now. I can definitely see people whose last Bio/Physics exposure was in 10th/11th grade at high school level, having a bit of trouble or feeling a little bit like things are moving too quickly.
But one of the assumptions in the program (and it’s a big one) is that you’re smart enough to be able to still handle upper level/advanced coursework without all those prerequisites. I don’t think those assumptions are necessarily fair, but I don’t write the rules. I mean realize in this program we’re taking med Biochem, Anatomy, and Physiology at the medical school level in our 2nd year, when we would normally be college sophomores. You can see here that the the BA degree plans for regular undergraduates in Liberal Arts, Bio, and Chem are quite different than the ones for the BA/MD: http://www.umkc.edu/majormaps/
2) Why are students charged at the School of Medicine rate while taking undergraduate classes, instead of the undergraduate rate, in the first 2 years?
I honestly don’t understand the rationale behind this, but just so you know it’s always been that way. The university as a whole gains quite a bit of revenue from the medical school from student tuition & fees. It would be nice if they maybe charged the undergraduate rate tuition for those credit hours and then med school tuition rate for the BMS or MED labeled credit hours in Years 1-2, but that’s not how it is. I don’t know how huge a difference that would be in terms of amount, as I have not done the calculations which you can do from the UMKC cashier’s charts:
http://www.umkc.edu/finadmin/cashiers/undergraduate-tuition-fee-rates.asp
http://www.umkc.edu/finadmin/cashiers/school-of-medicine-tuition-fee-rates.asp
3) Do students get to dissect cadavers in the required Anatomy course?
So we’ve actually discussed this in the thread. You can go here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18167466#Comment_18167466. TL;DR, as far as I know which is still true today, BA/MD students themselves do not dissect cadavers in the HSF course although they do get to look at limited prosections in the Anatomy lab. There are 1 month electives available for certain anatomy regions, but whether you take them in Years 4-6 will depend on if you’re interested in doing so by that point and whether you have room in your schedule.
4) How are students able to participate and function in outpatient/inpatient Internal medicine, while they are still learning basic sciences and haven’t taken Step 1?
I do think it would be helpful to have basic sciences finished first, but there would still be an adjustment period regardless when it comes to making that big jump from sitting in the classroom to being in a patient room, obtaining a history, putting together information from lab data and diagnostic imaging if needed, etc. You can see the course descriptions for Year 1 & 2 Docent here (Medicine 9110, 9120, 9210, 9220): https://catalog.umkc.edu/course-offerings/graduate/medicine/. In Years 3-6, both in Docent Clinic and in Docent Rotation, you are paired up with a senior partner and have a team and a docent, who can help you out (in theory).
Here was one person’s interpretation of the Docent system (http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/multiple-degree-programs/143289-umkc-vs-jmc-p1.html), he/she was deciding between UMKC’s 6 year program and Penn State/Jefferson’s program that was also 6 years at the time.
To those who may be reading, outpatient Internal Medicine = Docent Clinics which are a 1/2 day a week from Years 3-6; inpatient Internal Medicine = Docent Rotation (informally known as DoRo) which is 2 months long each year from Years 4-6 (every other med school in the country does the 2 month, maybe even 3 month, Internal Medicine rotation once in their third year of med school and maybe a 1 month Internal Medicine subinternship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-internship)
So I think most people are used to the traditional system where you learn all of basic sciences FIRST, take Step 1, BEFORE you enter the clinical wards. The truth is though that a lot of the information you will learn in those basic sciences are useless when it comes to clinical medicine (unlike say on a standardized exam like Step 1). Nearly all medical schools now do have some level of clinical exposure in the first 2 years of med school. The UMKC BA/MD program was created in the 1970s, when that was not the case in the first 2 years, so back then it was still quite innovative.
Is anybody else feeling a little nervous about getting accepted? I’m from Oklahoma, so I’m the regional pool so it’s at least a little less competitive than out of state. But then again, only about 30/90 will get in…