HappytoGraduate: I’m a Year 4 in the program. What did you use as your selling points (in reference to you being from UMKC SOM) when interviewing for residencies?
Check your PM box CookieFairy.
I’m sure many here on the board would also appreciate hearing from melodious04 if that’s possible.
For those who have PM’d me, I’m putting this answer out here as well, so that this benefits everybody else as well:
Excerpt from a PM of a question that was asked of me:
I’ve been accepted to the UMKC six-year BA/MD program and I am out-of-state. As you know the tuition is very very expensive. I know that I want to go for medicine, but at the same time, I don’t know whether UMKC is a good fit for me or the place I want to do it at. Naturally, I also don’t want to kick out an M.D. acceptance, if this is my only chance to become a doctor. Which major should I go for so that if I do decide early on that the program is not right for me, I won’t be behind when I transfer somewhere else?
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Well first off, congrats on getting in. As you know there are many BA/MD programs some better than others, all of them competitive. The fact that you got into a combined program, means you have the study skills it takes to get into a medical school period, so don’t take it as “I will never make it to med school if I don’t do this program.” There are tons of people who received an acceptance to UMKC who declined it and went somewhere else. Hence, why UMKC usually gives more acceptances than spots as many people are GUARANTEED to drop. Apparently my year, there were 160 acceptances given out, and first day of Year 1 we had 120 students.
I am glad that you are looking at this seriously, many people dive into the program not knowing how compressed it really is, and only look at the beginning of the roller coaster and end of the roller coaster without looking at the loopty-loops in between. I know people who left the program and did the normal premed route as well, and got into damn good med schools. One of my friends actually ended up at WashU AND didn’t lose any time either. However, she left after the first year with no academic hiccups. She just didn’t like the intense speed of the program (i.e. taking Medical School Physiology as a sophomore in college) as well as the cutting out of many of the prerequisites and jumping automatically into advanced upper-level course work (i.e. not having to take General Biology I and II and jumping into Cell Biology even though General Bio is a required prerequisite for all the undergraduate students.) You have to understand many of the prerequisites are cut out for medical students in the program so it fits into a six year program. It is assumed that you have a working knowledge of those subjects. Remember, many students have taken AP coursework, so you’re assumed to be a cream of the crop student. If you don’t have the prereqs, at least as a UMKC medical student you are expected to pick things up quickly.
I work with many residents who do the normal 4+4, and they wouldn’t trade their undergrad years for the world. They studied and had a great social life. Not that UMKC does not, but since UMKC is essentially a commuter campus, there is much less than other places, and the workload can be very intense esp. if you’re not coming in with testing credit about 20 hrs. at least of classes in the normal semester.
Just remember in this program you do not get your summers off, which may or may not be a deal-breaker for you. I know that may not seem like a big deal, but for some, it’s hard to always go to school without time to recharge your batteries or do community service in the summer or get a part-time job etc.
Remember the two benefits you are getting from the program are:
- You don’t have to take the MCAT (which really is replaced by taking the USMLE exams which all med students have to take to be licensed)
- You graduate in six years, assuming you don’t extend. If you do extend, it’s usually for 1 full year, which means ANOTHER year of out-of-state tuition.
I would say cost is definitely not a benefit in your case, as you are out-of-state, I haven’t calculated for in-state whether it really is a “deal” for them.
You are right the tuition is VERY HIGH esp. for out-of-state students. Out of state tuition for 2008-2009, is for Years 1 & 2 = $46,304 and Years 3-6 = $53,866. That’s certainly not chump change. In fact UMKC has one of the highest out-of-state tuitions in the country, 2nd only to Colorado which charges $60,000 but it is for 4 years of med school. For UMKC, that’s $308,072 (You could send 2 kids to med school with that money) and that’s without considering the annual tuition going up every year, which it inevitably does. The loans collected and the interest collected would be VERY HIGH, and that doesn’t even include books, living, etc. Just so you know, UMKC does not allow out-of-state students to get non-resident scholarships. The medical school at UMKC is not well funded by the state, and they get expenses paid esp. through out-of-state tuition.
The major I would choose for you since you are unsure about going to UMKC’s med school but ARE sure about going for medicine is the Biology BA degree. When I went to UMKC the only option was the Liberal Arts degree, along with Chemistry, Sociology, Psychology, Philosophy, but no science bachelors degrees unless you wanted to extend and take longer than six years. This was because there was a huge fight between the School of Biological Sciences (SBS) and the Medical school which you may hear about from people. Now, I think that scar has healed between the two and SBS is willing to accept Medical School science classes such as Human Biochemistry and Human Structure Function to fulfill requirements for the Biology degree.
As you know the first year of college, no matter where you go, you are doing general education courses: General Psych, General Sociology, Freshman English, Sophomore English, US History, etc. for your undergraduate degree and at the same time doing the premed requirements.
As you know you would probably do 1 year of General Bio and 1 year of General Chem your freshman year and 1 year of Organic Chemistry and 1 year of General Physics your sophomore year for your premed requirements.
Thus, by starting to do the first year of your Bachelor’s for Biology, you’re just doing freshman premed reqs and general ed requirements ONLY which everybody is required to do.
This is the key part though: Strive to do well in all of your courses as much as you can for the time being. At the same time, you have one year from the beginning of fall to end of spring to ask around and find out more about the program, ask Year 3’s (who are taking basic sciences) , Year 4s (who are preparing to take boards), year 5s (who are taking clinical rotations), and Year 6s (who are applying for residencies), how they feel about the program. Don’t ask administrators as you will get the obvious PC answer. Ask the people who are affected by it: the STUDENTS themselves.
Ask them these questions: [AAMC:</a> Applying to Medical School: Thirty-One Questions I Wish I Had Asked](<a href=“http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/31questions.htm]AAMC:”>http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/31questions.htm)
Especially ask them how well did they feel their medical school courses prepared them for national board exams as well as how much they feel faculty and administration are helpful to students as a whole. You can ask Student Affairs for emails of students and they should be willing to give them to you, if not that should be a red flag to you. You will also meet medical students as well from student organizations and ask them for their candid opinions that you wouldn’t get at your interview, when everyone is on good behavior. Also, ask for the match lists in the past few years from Student Affairs and look them over and see how well people match in fields you may be interested in. Do people match at great programs, do they stay in the midwest or spread across the U.S.? What is the USMLE Step 1 average? How did the high scorers feel the curriculum helped in that regard? Those questions are very important. These would have been good to ask before you came to UMKC but just remember since you’re only there for the interview date, people will be glamorizing the program and telling you what you want to hear, not necessarily what you should hear. Write down what they feel so you remember but don’t rely on one opinion to heavily. The more people you ask, the more accurate your impression will be.
If you decide to stay great! You have no doubts and you can continue as the only extra sciences that the BA in Biology has in comparison to the Bachelor of Liberal Arts is General Bio I and II with Lab (which you’ve completed by now), and one semester of Physics. All other science courses required are exactly the same for both degrees (Anatomy, Micro, Genetics, Cell, etc). Your Science GPA will be better as you have a few more basic science courses to rely on than your classmates.
If you decide that it’s not worth the cost, or you’d rather get your Bachelors or MD degree from a more prestigious place, or the curriculum is too restricting, you don’t like being away from your family for long periods of time etc. then you’re ok. You’ve only done one year of general ed and premed reqs which you would have done at another school anyways. And you can transfer those credits somewhere else (Those credits will transfer as those courses are available at all universities). You can even decide to do another major as ONCE AGAIN you’ve only done general education and premed requirements. My friend that went to WashU for med school, for example changed her Bachelors to Business Administration when she transferred to another university, to finish her undergrad as she did not want to get her bachelors from UMKC and applied to med school in her fourth year of undergrad like she would have done if she had done 4+4.
If your only reason to go to UMKC is avoiding having to take the MCATs, please DO NOT COME HERE. It’s not worth being miserable at a place you don’t like to avoid one test, when it is replaced by two more tests: USMLE Step 1 and Step 2. You can’t skip licensing exams. There are commercial prep programs for the MCATs and with your established study ethic and motivation you will do great on the MCATs. How do I know? Because I looked at a practice MCAT after I finished my bachelor science classes and many of them I could answer quite easily (just not a few of the Physics questions as I didn’t have it in college, and I forgot what I learned in AP Physics in high school LOL).
Just remember, being that you applied to a combined BA/MD program, when many don’t know about them, makes it likely that you are motivated, focused, and enthusiastic to do well not matter where you go. That’s the formula to getting into medical school in the first place. A combined BA/MD program is just a different way, not the ONLY way, to reach the same destination.
Good luck!
I have a question: What sat subject scores does UMKC look for?
I have a:
800 ush
730 world history
690 math I
670 bio & chem
Will these hurt my chances? I am retaking my sat’s for a 2240, so will those two sets of scores hurt my chances? If so, what should I do. Also, what is a good ACT score I should shoot for? I have a 33 atm.
az1698, actually UMKC does not ask for SAT II scores and doesn’t require them. They only ask for the ACT, or SAT if you are out of state. The more prestigious programs, such as Brown or Northwestern require the SAT II. This should give you an idea of scores needed:
[BA/MD</a> Programs - U.S. School Listing - Medical School Help](<a href=“http://www.medicalhelpnet.com/content/view/28/46/]BA/MD”>http://www.medicalhelpnet.com/content/view/28/46/)
These aren’t all the med programs and some may be discontinued.
From the UMKC med program admissions website:
[UMKC</a> School of Medicine](<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/med_admissions/default.html]UMKC”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/med_admissions/default.html)
Missouri Residents
In addition to the application requirements, Missouri residents must also meet the following criteria:
• ACT score of 26 or higher
• Rank in the upper 20 percent of high school graduating class
Out-of-State Residents
In addition to the application requirements, out-of-state residents must also meet the following criteria:
• Rank in the upper 10 percent of high school graduating class
• ACT score of 28 or higher
• Completion of the ACT Student Profile. An SAT 1 (M+CR) composite score of 1200 or above will be considered; however, the ACT is strongly preferred.
Do you have a idea on what a good act score to shoot for would be for a out of state resident?
I took the SAT myself, so I can’t speak for the ACT. The website says an ACT of 28 is required as well as being in the upper 10% of your class. I would think a 30 would be a good number though.
These sites gives you approximate conversion estimates between the ACT and SAT:
[ACT/SAT</a> Equivalencies - Requirements and Deadlines - Undergraduate Admissions - The University of Iowa](<a href=“http://www.uiowa.edu/admissions/undergrad/requirements/act-conversion.html]ACT/SAT”>http://www.uiowa.edu/admissions/undergrad/requirements/act-conversion.html)
[Convert</a> ACT to SAT - How to Convert SAT Scores to ACT Scores](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/standardizedtests/a/convertSAT2ACT.htm]Convert”>Convert ACT to SAT: A 2017 Table for Score Conversion)
Many colleges at this time, do not take the Writing portion of the SAT into account unlike the Verbal and Math which have been used for decades.
I’ve been asked which premed requirements are skipped in entering the BA/MD program at UMKC. I’ll list what the pre-med requirements usually are at most medical schools and what are skipped at UMKC. I will do it under the assumption that the student entering UMKC does the Bachelor of Liberal Arts degree that most people end up doing.
General Chemistry I and II with Labs
English (Freshman and Sophomore English)
General Biology I and II with Labs - SKIPPED
General Physics I and II with Labs - SKIPPED
Organic Chemistry I and II with Labs - We do not take the full year “premed” Organic Chemistry. We do a condensed one semester survey of Organic Chemistry with the one-semester lab instead. This course would not ordinarily fulfill the premed requirement in someone applying for medical school.
Math (usually 1 semester of Calculus) - SKIPPED
On par with what HappytoGraduate is saying, I was in the combined program as well. I graduated from high school in May 2004, and started the program that Fall of 2004. I was at the top of my class in Missouri, I was ranked 5 out of 800. I came in with credit for: AP English Language, AP US History, AP Psychology, AP Physics B (which didn’t help for my degree), and AP Biology (which didn’t help either). I took as many AP courses as maximum allowed, as luckily our school offered almost everyone, and I would say with respect to college preparation and earning my “A” in my coursework in high school was very rigorous.
During my first year or you’re called a “Year 1”, I really enjoyed it. I happened to have a docent (who’s pretty much like an attending doctor-mentor) from whom I learned a LOT about medicine, like taking patient medical histories and learning about communicating with patients. For me, the learning experience was effective, I know for others it was more of a pain from studying for their other classes. At the school, there is a huge emphasis on Science GPA in order to promote so you end up putting in more effort in those classes rather than Docent, Med Term, etc. which are Pass/Fail, which I think is a little sad, considering the latter classes are more important to becoming a doctor. I was going for the liberal arts degree, as I figured the important part is the MD.
So by the end of my 2nd semester of Year 1, I knew I wanted to be a doctor.
We didn’t get to go home right away when finals were over the first week of May, as we had to do a 2-wk Hospital experience right after, when everyone else went home for the summer, and then we got to go home for about 2 weeks before the summer semester started and then the fall semester starts 2 weeks into August, about 2 weeks after the summer semester is over. So all in all you get 1 month vacation after Year 1, when most undergrads get about 3 months off.
Well the summer semester is only eight weeks long and I was taking Cell Biology, Orgo Chem, and Orgo Lab, and it was the most exhausting summers of my life unlike the first 2 semesters. Literally the moment I stepped out of class I would walk back to the dorm and start studying, with only time to sleep and eat every single day for 2 months as you have master things so fast. Things go that fast and it’s not watered down at all. Unlike the first two semesters, in the summer you cover like 1 chapter every 1 or 2 days.
Both Cell and Orgo meet 4 days a week in the 8-week summer with twice a week lab. To give you an idea:
Organic Chem was MoTuWeTh 12:00PM - 1:40PM
Organic Chem Lab was TuTh 8:00AM - 11:00AM
Cell Bio was MoTuWeTh 2:00PM - 3:15PM
For Organic we had a total of 4 exams to determine our grade, with one exam every week-and-a-half covering 3-4 chapters.
For Cell Biology we had 3 exams to determine our grade, with each exam covering 6 chapters, with the first exam after 3 weeks, and the next two exams, after every 2 weeks.
It was a very hard and difficult decision as I knew I wanted to be a doctor but I withdrew from the program immediately after the summer semester was over. My GPA was 3.98. The reason I did this is because I knew I would not be able to do this program constantly year round with no break at all for 6 years, and so then I transferred to my state school closer to my family, University of Missouri-Columbia (Mizzou) and did my bachelor’s in Finance.
I got more financial aid from Mizzou than I got at UMKC which is virtually non-existent for medical students, esp. OOS. I got to get involved in research and many more extracurricular activities, I got into Phi Beta Kappa, an undergrad honor society at most colleges, but not available at UMKC, and also get involved in medical research at the local medical school and undergrad campus, that wasn’t available at UMKC at all. I quickly caught up on my premed requirements, took my MCATs my junior year and with Princeton Review got a 40. And this 2007-2008 school year, I applied to medical school and will be going to University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine in Fall 2008.
Many of my friends who continued the program were academically separated later and now owe back a huge debt, extended, and/or don’t like the program at all now that they are in the medical school, but they have no choice now. I am glad I left early enough, as I ended up in a top ten medical school by applying myself, finishing the requirements, and doing well by not rushing things and skipping many good foundational classes. My mental health and physical health, as well as my stress level is also better because of it.
I also started UMKC in the Fall of 2004, but I jumped out (voluntarily) of thE sinking ship after one semester.
Bottom line, go to UMKC under these two conditions:
<ol>
<li>You 100% want to be a physician</li>
<li>You can’t trust yourself to get into a better med school from undergrad.</li>
</ol>
Any other way, you’re just wasting time and money. Besides the high economic costs of staying in the program (~60K per year), understand that most of the classes do not transfer (the organic chem, biochem, etc.) and thus, are useless at other colleges. You’d have to re-take them.
I realized that medicine was not for me and transferred to my state school (Univ of Florida). I did an undergrad in finance, currently in grad school at Johns H.
Another big mistake kids make is that they think they ‘don’t have to work as hard’ at UMKC vs. going to a tough undergrad school. That may be true if you are content with spending residency (and the rest of your life) at Hospital Hell (Truman). When you don’t come from a known school such as UMKC, you have to be a champ (solid grades, TOP Step-1 scores, 240+) to get decent residency interviews.
So really, one should only go to UMKC if they honestly believe that no other American medical school will accept them (adjusting for risk). I still have some good friends at KC, so I do not have negative feelings toward the place, though they robbed me of 28K for one semester…I’m just giving my objective opinion from an investment point-of-view.
Factors:
Total economic investment: Out-of-state: At least $360K
Lack of transferability of courses if you decide to leave
Lack of prestige for residency purposes (maybe Mayo Clinic and Beth Israel Deconess are the few exceptions of recent)
Undergrad experience is unremarkable
KC blows if you aren’t from the Midwest
While I was very focused/prideful on the 6-yr accelerated aspect (and there are many people against it), I think the tremendous financial investment negates the saving of two years (translation: you’ll be in so much debt, that it will probably take more than 2 years of after-tax income to pay it off, relative to doing it the 4 yr undergrad +4 MD school route).
az1698:
UMKC doesn’t care about SAT II scores. Heck, I don’t even think that standardized test scores are that important in UMKC because many people in this program did not score at the top. For example, the average ACT score this year was 29-30 (forgot which one), which is equivalent to around a 2050 on the SAT. However, your year might be harder because I’ve heard that the next few years will be the hardest for college applications. I would probably aim for a 2200 for your year, just in case (you’re an incoming senior right?). If you’re applying for some other med prog, I would try to raise the math and the two science SAT IIs to at least 750 and get at least a 2300 on ur SAT I or a 34 on your ACT.
yea i am going for a 2300 and 35; thanks for the advice sharingan
I am really interested in applying there, and i know these programs are competitive but here are my stats, please give me honest feedback::
GPA: 4.0 unweighted, i dunno weighted
Rank: 1(out of 604)
ACT: 30 but shooting for a 33
SATI: - will take soon
PSAT: 192
SAT II: Math2-710 Bio-770
I’ve taken AP Bio and AP Calc as a junior, i’ll be a senior soon and will take AP Chem, dual enroll in Calc II and III and might take AP History.
Health experience: Physician shadowing (50+)
Nursing home (100+)
Medical Research (250 +)
Volunteering: Big Brother once a week, Hindu Temple (50+)
Freshman tutor (plan to be next year)
EC’s: NHS, Chess club, UNITE club, and Anime Club (of course lol)
Work Experience: Kumon; tuesdays, thursdays and Saturdays 12 hrs a week
Please help me out, I am also applying to Wayne State University’s MedStart program and also Michigan State Universitiy’s BS/MD program
I forgot to mention, im out of state…
Michigan State Universitiy’s BS/MD program -
Are you a Michigan Resident? There are 2 spots for OOS. My D. did not get in last year with the same stats, except her ACT was 33. She got to 3 other combined programs in Ohio (our residency)
Yes I’m in State, Michigan resident
You have a good chance! Yey, practice a little more, get a little higher ACT, and you should be fine. Just on a safe side, I would recommend to apply to some programs in our state of Ohio. They are not necessarily as compettitive for OOS as Mischigan State and would definately be less competitive than UMKC, if you are considering it.
Thanks, I’ll be sure to apply to NEOCOM, which is pretty much the only one in Ohio that i know of…
There are several others.