lol…i couldn’t help chuckling a little…
in all honesty, unless the other 7 people were absolute geniuses, i don’t think it would count that much.
You’d probably have to explain about your classes on the application, as most schools offer the AP or IB program. Thus if you don’t explain that these are college classes, it may get interpreted as being regular.
If you only have 7 people in your class, I don’t know how this would affect your application as I’ve NEVER seen that before. The smallest senior class I heard of was 35 (in very small rural areas). But if you’re too low, it may work against you. A class of 7 in your senior class is ridiculous I must say. If you ranked #1, then that would be fine as you can’t help if your class is small. If you’re like #6, you might be in trouble. The point is you should be in the most rigorous curriculum and do well, and include a summary sheet about your school explaining about classes available (most schools have it if you ask your registrar or counselor), so that the person reading your application understands your courses better and that you are taking the most challenging curriculum.
HappyToGraduate in one of your earlier posts you stated that there were “MANY more negatives” to UMKC. What exactly does this program lack that others may have?
MetsFan, here are the negatives I can think of quickly:
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Limited number of Bachelors Degrees you are allowed to pursue: Liberal Arts (which is utterly useless without the MD program), Sociology, Psychology, Chem, Bio, all which are BA degrees. Getting a BS is out of the question as well as others that aren’t already set up. On top of that you only get 2 years complete to finish your degree thus most people end up doing the Liberal Arts degree not out of choice, but the only way to make it fit, as it has so little hours.
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Very little to no state funding thus most of the cost is transferred to the student, which is why for the BA/MD program, the tuition is one of the highest in the country. There are literally no scholarships given as being a medical student is one of the exclusionary criteria.
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Little to no research activity at UMKC, although I’ve heard that it is getting better now. UMKC is not a research institution, its to send students into primary care. Thus this can hurt you in applying to competitive residencies and there are many in my class who did stellar in their academics, but did not match into residencies such as Urology or Derm.
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Not a prestigious or highly ranked program compared to Mizzou or WashU or even in official rankings in US World News Report: both in Research or Primary Care
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Many prerequisite courses are taken out: General Bio I and II, Physics I and II, Organic I and II (you do a one semester course). Thus by skipping these prereqs this sometimes creates a problem for students in upper level courses. Which the program makes you jump into them starting your Year 2: taking Medical School biochemistry and then Med School Anatomy.
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Basic Science education is not taught well here, and thus are very unprepared for USMLE Step 1. Thus students, end up having to enroll in expensive commercial board prep courses. Because of funding issues, there aren’t enough microscopes for all students, thus, they have to have separate lab groups that come at a specific time. Gross Anatomy - students’ don’t even dissect.
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School runs year round and you get NO summers off, thus burn out is common at this program. In fact if you check statistics: 20% of students end up leaving the program without the MD degree.
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These are just the ones at the top of my head.
What positives stood out to you as a graduate from the program?
POSITIVE(S):
Being able to graduate in six years (some residencies, esp. the competitive ones, consider this a negative though - as you are considered too young or that your education is too hurried as they know things are squeezed into six years, even if you are academically stellar as I was).
People have been asking me about the funding situation at UMKC, this should give you a better idea: [UMKC</a> wants cash infusion for med school - Kansas City Business Journal:](<a href=“http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2006/02/27/story6.html]UMKC”>http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2006/02/27/story6.html)
Just to give you context, Guy Bailey has left UMKC as have other chancellors in the past.
I don’t understand how a lot of graduates I have spoken with have discussed many positive attributes of the program and how you have so many negative points about it. Did you have a really bad experience?
To be honest, besides this board which is anonymous, unless the person is a very good and true friend, they won’t tell you the truth. Not one thing I’ve listed for the negatives is untrue. The truth is most people don’t want to admit that they made a hasty decision, or that their decision was wrong, so most people are tight-lipped about it and when they graduate are glad to get the hell out. Thus, when you get in the program you figure out these things very quickly. What’s worse is the tuition rate is ATROCIOUS, esp. if you’re out of state.
Now whether other people choose to use rationalization as their defense mechanism to be able to get through the BA/MD program, that’s another story. After going through the program for years with many problems and complaints, after leaving they disappear, as you are ready to get on with your life bc you can’t change it and leave KC, and just think about the good memories. You have to ask yourself, if UMKC was that great, why do most people not stay at UMKC for their residency programs? Also, why is it not ranked at all in US World News and Report for research or primary care? If the clinical training and early exposure was so great, at least you would think UMKC would rank high in the clinical ranks (aka Primary care rankings).
As you can see the news article in my last post, the school does have problems esp. when it comes to funding, and none of the stuff I have said is untrue. UMKC HAS had trouble in their board passing rates in the past, although now that problem is a lot less as there are a lot of hoops to jump through before taking boards (specific Science GPA required to promote, Mock Board exam written by those who write USMLE questions, in which students have to get a certain score in order to be allowed to sign up).
It all depends what you want in a medical school and how competitive you wish to be for residency, esp. if you desire a highly competitive residency.
You have to ask more probing questions than just “Do you like the program”: [AAMC:</a> Applying to Medical School: Thirty-One Questions I Wish I Had Asked](<a href=“http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/31questions.htm]AAMC:”>http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/31questions.htm)
Ask the admissions person at UMKC if you can get a contact with a student who’s in the program NOW (like Year 4/5) to ask them questions about the program. If they say they can’t do that, that is a HUGE red flag. The curriculum of the program changes all the time, so it is utterly useless to talk to a graduate, especially if it was a while back. Classes and more and more requirements get added to the six year program. Check out SDN (Student Doctor Network as well) to see about the program.
Ask them how did they feel coursework alone prepared them for boards or did they have to rely on courses like Kaplan, ask about scholarship funding and state med school funding (apparently now #72/76 according to the article), etc. I would talk to them on the phone as most don’t want to be traced to an email and would be more honest getting to talk to them directly. Do your HW on BA/MD programs as they are not all created equal by any means.
Wohoo just got my ACT Score back, im in state and i have a 30! what is the average for instate?
Breaking, I think it is 28.
30 is great Breaking Dawn. Your ACT score will exempt you from having to take Freshman English - “A student earning a score of 30 or better on the ACT English subtest or 690 or better on the SAT Verbal, may be exempt from the English 110 requirement.”
Happy, there are no scholarships given out by UKMC? and also, do you have any suggestions for the interview? Also, what are the research opportunities available there? Do students get papers published?
been a while since i was on here…
glad to see you’re still around happytograduate 
i’m currently a third year in the program so ask away if you want any advice or tips.
How were your first 2 years?? Do you feel prepared for the med school? How are your classmates doing? Any regrets?
Hey otacon 88, hope you’re doing well.
az1698,
With respect to scholarships given, many of the scholarships given by UMKC exclude medical students being able to apply and receive them: <a href=“https://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site/forms/scholarships/scholarships_chart_freshman.pdf[/url]”>https://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site/forms/scholarships/scholarships_chart_freshman.pdf</a>. Unless things have changed in the past few years, no one I know gets a full tuition or half tuition scholarship or even close to that. If you are out-of-state, you agree to paying full out-of-state tuition for all six years, or longer if necessary (i.e. if you extend). UMKC gives very little scholarship support to med students as UMKC in general receives a lot less funding from the state as compared to Mizzou in Columbia (University of Missouri-Columbia). See the article I linked above regarding UMKC being #72 of 76 public med schools with regards to funding by the state (the article says apparently we used to be dead last). Thus this means the pricetag is passed on to the student, resulting in students with MUCH MUCH higher aggregate loans by graduation.
The interview more focuses on you as a person (why you want to be a doctor, why specifically the six year program vs. 4 + 4 - (look at the brochures for this one), and more holistic type of questions as they already have your academic information in front of them).
As far as a I know there is not really any innovative research going on as UMKC is not a research institution. I have noticed on the website though that they are more organized now with the “Office of Research”. You might want to ask otacon88, regarding this as he is a 3rd year now as far as if anything has changed with regards to research opportunities and more importantly medical students being able to get involved in them, but I know when I was there, the research opportunities were minimal to none. The people I know who did research mainly had poster presentations and abstracts, but not actual published in a journal stuff from UMKC. The ones that I know that got stuff published in journals either did so from away rotations at other places or took a year off do research at other places.
Thats good to know because i got a 31 for the English section!
A consistent question I keep getting is UMKC’s ranking in US World News and Report. To be fair, USWNR has a list for research rank vs. primary care rank. (research vs. clinical medicine). UMKC chooses not to be included in either ranking list.
Here is the methodology that takes into account the numerous factors, each one weighted at a specific percentage some calculated for the research rank and others calculated for the primary care rank: [Medicine</a> Methodology - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-graduate-schools/2008/03/26/medicine-methodology.html]Medicine”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-graduate-schools/2008/03/26/medicine-methodology.html)
Copied and Pasted below:
Research Activity (weighted by .30 in the research medical school model only)
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Total Research Activity (.20) Measured by the total dollar amount of National Institutes of Health research grants awarded to the medical school and its affiliated hospitals, averaged for 2006 and 2007. An asterisk indicates schools that reported only research grants to their medical school in 2007.
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Average Research Activity Per Faculty Member (.10) Measured by the dollar amount of National Institutes of Health research grants awarded to the medical school and its affiliated hospitals per full-time faculty member, averaged over 2006 and 2007. Both full-time basic sciences and clinical faculty were used in the faculty count. An asterisk indicates schools that reported research grants only to their medical school in 2007.
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Primary-Care Rate (.30 in the primary-care medical school model only) The percentage of M.D. or D.O. school graduates entering primary-care residencies in the fields of family practice, pediatrics, and internal medicine was averaged over 2005, 2006, and 2007.
Student Selectivity (.20 in the research medical school model, .15 in the primary-care medical school model)
Mean MCAT Score (.13 in the research medical school model, .0975 in the primary-care medical school model) The mean composite Medical College Admission Test score of the 2007 entering class.
Mean Undergraduate GPA (.06 in the research medical school model, .045 in the primary-care medical school model) The mean undergraduate grade-point average of the 2007 entering class.
Acceptance Rate (.01 in the research medical school model, .0075 in the primary-care medical school model) The proportion of applicants to the 2007 entering class who were offered admission.
Faculty Resources (.10 in the research medical school model, .15 in the primary-care medical school model) Faculty Resources were measured as the ratio of full-time science and full-time clinical faculty to full-time M.D. or D.O. students in 2007.
Overall Rank: Indicators were standardized about their means, and standardized scores were weighted, totaled, and rescaled so that the top school received 100; other schools received their percentage of the top score.
Specialty Rankings: The rankings are based solely on ratings by medical school deans and senior faculty from the list of schools surveyed. They each identified up to 10 schools offering the best programs in each specialty area. Those receiving the most nominations appear here.
If i haven’t taken any AP classes for my junior and sophomore years will still have a pretty good chance of getting in? I plan on taking AP Statistics, AP Chemistry, and AP psychology my senior year. I mean its not like Ive taken regular classes, i have taken practically all honors classes up to now.
Here is my schedule for this year and the last
Sophomore year
Latin 4
English honors
World history honors
Technical theater
Health
Biology
strength training
Junior year
Pre-calculus
Teachers assistant (for biology teacher)
Language and grammar honors
World history honors
Personal finance
Sports medicine
Anatomy and physiology Honors
Strength training
Chemistry Honors
Oh ya and i have a 3.88 GPA and Rank 32/602
ACT: 30
Extracurricular Activities/ Achievements
Freshman
• People to People (student ambassador)
• Student Council Represenative
• Teacher Council Student Representative
• Bord of Civic Education meeting (Missouri bar meeting)
• We the People Debate (first place in all catagories)
• Small Group (religious)
Sophmore
• Fellowship of Student Athleates
• Future Doctors of America
• Tomorrows Health Care Elite
• Tomorrows Health Care Elite Scholarship winner
• HOSA first place in the Medical Quiz Boul (State levle)
• HOSA Second Place int he Biomedical Debate over -qualified to go to nationals in Texas for hosa
• Volenteer Hours at the University Hospital (50 HRS)
• Small Group
Junior
• Small group
• Mini med school
• FDA – President
• Volunteer win the laboratory of Fredric VomSawl (studying the effects of byzthemal A (a type of plastic) on fetuses)
• Junior leadership – Columbia chamber of commerce
What do you guys think?
Hey BreakingDawn,
Your CV looks pretty good. Being a Missouri resident also helps you in that regard with respect to competitiveness to other Missourians. Keep making superior grades to bring up your rank as well.
The important thing to do is to take the most rigorous curriculum that you can handle and that is available at your school. For example, at my school, I was lucky in that almost every AP test had an AP class available at my school (except like Chinese, Japanese, Italian, etc.), but I was also an out-of-state student. The courses that were taken before the official AP courses, were designated Pre-AP (what your school calls Honors courses) (i.e. Pre-AP Precalculus, Pre-AP English I, Pre-AP World History, etc.). Just curious does your Language and Grammar Honors class prepare you for the AP English Language exam? I’m surprised in looking at your schedule as most schools that offer AP courses at least offer AP English Language (junior year) and AP English Literature (senior year).
I know many people in my class, from Missouri, came from high schools that did not offer AP courses at all, so you are better off than a lot of them.
Before I forget, take a computer class offered at your school, (I took AP Computer Science I), as apparently that’s the most common reason for rejection when someone has not taken a computer course, although they don’t directly tell you.
Also inquire about other BA/MD programs, as no matter what your stats/extracurriculars, out-of-state or in-state, NOTHING is a guarantee, and a lot of times it comes down to luck or getting off the waitlist. You don’t want to put all your eggs in one basket with no backup plan.
Also look into scholarship opportunities (there are some you can apply your junior year), bc regardless of whether you make it into the program or not, scholarship support is always helpful.