UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
1721

Thanks for all your help HappyToGraduate!!! Just wanted to let everyone know that I emailed and asked to see how the degree plan would look like for a Biology major and a Liberal Arts major. Happy is right, they are all Bachelor of Arts degrees and the ones people do are: Liberal Arts (most common), Biology, Chemistry, Psychology, Sociology, Communication Studies, Philosophy. He was also correct when he said that taking and passing the AP Biology exam does not give you credit for General Biology I and II.

Your post from #1544, is like my situation actually, so if I do decide to go to this program, I would most likely do the Biology degree. If I decide to leave after the first year, when I transfer, although my grades won’t count towards my GPA at another university, when you fill out the AMCAS application for 4 year med schools, it would count, and the AMCAS GPA is what matters not anything else. The Biology major requirements on the UMKC website is not exactly correct, bc that is for undergraduates not in the med program. I wish though they allowed medical students to do the Bachelor of Science degree in Biology ([Biology</a> degrees at UMKC](<a href=“http://sbs.umkc.edu/programs/undergrad/degrees.html]Biology”>http://sbs.umkc.edu/programs/undergrad/degrees.html)) though.

Biology BA for Six-Year Med Students

Required Previous Summer or Transfer Credit
<em>CHEM 211: General Chemistry I - 4
*CHEM 211L: Experimental General Chemistry I - 1
*CHEM 212R: General Chemistry II - 4
*CHEM 212LR: Experimental General Chemistry II - 1
**</em>PHYSICS 210: General Physics I - 4
MATH 210 or STAT 235: Calculus I or Elementary Statistics 3-4
B.A. Req.: General Education Requirement - 3

Year 1 Fall
LS ANAT 119: Functional Anatomy I - 3
LS ANAT 119L: Introductory Anatomy Laboratory - 2
MED 9110: Fund. Of Med. Practice I - 5
MED 9115: Medical Terminology - 1
MED 9119: Learning Basic Medical Sciences - 1
<em>PSYCH 210: General Psychology - 3
**</em>BIOLOGY 108: General Biology I - 3
BIOLOGY 108L: General Biology I Laboratory - 1
B.A. Req.: General Education Requirement - 3

Year 1 Winter
BIOLOGY 206: Genetics - 3
MED 9120: Fund. Of Med. Practice II - 5
<em>SOCIOL 101: Sociology: An Introduction - 3
**</em>BIOLOGY 109: General Biology II - 3
*BIOLOGY 109L: General Biology II Laboratory - 1
B.A. Req.: General Education Requirement - 3
B.A. Req.: General Education Requirement - 3

Year 2 Summer
BIOLOGY 202: Cell Biology - 3
CHEM 320: Elementary Organic Chemistry - 4
CHEM 320L: Experimental Organic Chemistry - 1
MED 9121: Hospital Team - 1

Year 2 Fall
LS MCRB 313 Microbiology - 3
LS MCRB 313WL Laboratory in Microbiology - 3
BMS 9265 Human Biochemistry - 5
MED 9210 Fund. Of Med. Practice III - 5
SOCIOL 211 Soc/Psych/Dev Thru Life Cycle - 3
*B.A. Req. General Education Requirement - 3

Year 2 Winter
BMS 9296: Human Structure Function I - 7
BMS 9297: Human Structure Function II - 6
BMS 9298: Human Structure Function III - 5
MED 9220: Fund. Of Med. Practice IV - 5

#Seven Credit Hours of Human Structure Function counts toward Biology Upper Level hours

Year 3 Summer
BMS 9399: Human Structure Function IV - 4
MED 9550A: Clinical Correlations - 5
MED 9300A: History of Medicine - 1

Year 3 Fall
BMS 9311: Medical Microbiology - 6
BMS 9310: Neurosciences - 9
MED 9380: Clinical Skills - 5
MED 9385: Introduction to Pharmacology - 2
MED 9383: Outpatient Clinic

Year 3 Winter
MED 9312: Pathology I - 8
MED 9313: Pathology II - 12
MED 9386: CUES - 3
MED 9383: Outpatient Clinic - 5

One Semester in Year 4 (Summer, Fall, or Winter)
**B.A. Req.: Biology Elective (300 or Above) - 3
B.A. Req.: Biology Synthesis Course - 3
MED 9485: Amb. Care Pharmacology - 2
MED 9482: Patient, Physician, Society - 2
MED 9483: Outpatient Clinic - 5

<ol>
<li>Black text indicates courses required by School of Medicine
</li>
<li>Red/Bold text indicates courses required by School of Biological Sciences in addition to M.D. requirements</li>
<li>A maximum of 30 transfer credit hours may be accepted</li>
<li>28 hours of course work in Biology are completed in addition to M.D. requirements (1.)</li>
</ol>

<ul>
<li>= indicates courses that may be transferred into UMKC</li>
</ul>

1722

Liberal Arts BA for Six-Year Med Students

Recommended Previous Summer or Transfer Credit
*CHEM 211: General Chemistry I - 4
*CHEM 211L: Experimental General Chemistry I - 1
*CHEM 212R: General Chemistry II - 4
*CHEM 212LR: Experimental General Chemistry II - 1

Year 1 Fall
LSANAT 119: Human Anatomy - 3
LSANAT 119L: Human Anatomy Lab - 1
<em>Chem 211: General Chemistry I - 4
*Chem 211L: General Chemistry I Lab - 1
*Psych 210: General Psychology - 3
MED 9110: Fund. Of Med. Practice I - 5
MED 9115: Medical Terminology - 1
MED 9119: Learning Basic Medical Science - 1
</em>BA Req. - 3

Year 1 Winter
<em>Chem 212: General Chemistry II - 4
*Chem 212L: General Chemistry II Lab - 1
LSMICRO 121: Microbiology - 3
LSMICRO 121L: Microbiology Lab - 1
MED 9120: Fund. Med. Practice II - 5
*Soc 101: Intro to Sociology - 3
</em>BA Req. - 3

Year 2 Summer
BIOLOGY 202: Cell Biology - 3
CHEM 320: Elementary Organic Chemistry - 4
CHEM 320L: Experimental Organic Chemistry - 1
MED 9121: Hospital Team - 1

Year 2 Fall
BIOL 206: Genetics - 3
BMS 9265: Human Biochemistry - 5

MED 9210: Fund. of Med. Practice III - 5
Soc 211: Soc/Psych/Dev Thru Life Cycle - 3
**BA Req. - 3
BA Req. - 3

Year 2 Winter
BMS 9296: Human Structure Function I - 7
BMS 9297: Human Structure Function II - 6
BMS 9298: Human Structure Function III - 5
MED 9220: Fund. Of Med. Practice IV - 5

Year 3 Summer
BMS 9399: Human Structure Function IV - 4
MED 9550A: Clinical Correlations - 5
MED 9300A: History of Medicine - 1

Year 3 Fall
BMS 9311: Medical Microbiology - 6
BMS 9310: Neurosciences - 9
MED 9380: Clinical Skills - 5
MED 9385: Introduction to Pharmacology - 2
MED 9383: Outpatient Clinic

Year 3 Winter
MED 9312: Pathology I - 8
MED 9313: Pathology II - 12
MED 9386: CUES - 3
MED 9383: Outpatient Clinic - 5

One Semester in Year 4 (Fall, or Winter)
MED 9485: Amb. Care Pharmacology - 2
MED 9482: Patient Physician Society - 2
MED 9483: Outpatient Clinic - 5
*BA Req. - 15

Black text indicates courses required by School of Medicine
Blue text indicates courses required by College of Arts and Sciences in addition to MD requirements

  • indicates courses that may be transferred into UMKC

30 hours maximum transfer credit
21 hours minimum of Humanities courses required
21 hours minimum of Social Science courses required

1723

Financial Aid/Scholarships through UMKC: [UMKC</a> Financial Aid and Scholarships Office](<a href=“http://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site/index.cfm]UMKC”>http://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site/index.cfm)
Fee Calculator: [UMKC</a> Fee calculator](<a href=“Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City”>Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City)

Amount per credit hour for 2008/2009:
Fall/Spring: [16</a> wk semester - School of Medicine](<a href=“Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City”>Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City)
Summer: [8</a> wk semester - School of Medicine](<a href=“Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City”>Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City)

Missouri Resident - $590.40 per credit hour
Regional - $885.60 per credit hour (Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Arkansas and Illinois)
Missouri Non-Resident - $1,180.80 per credit hour

Just for comparison - for undergraduate students who are not in the medical program (there is not regional in this category)
Fall/Spring: [16</a> wk semester - Undergraduate](<a href=“Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City”>Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City)
Summer: [8</a> wk semester - undergraduate](<a href=“Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City”>Cashiers Office | Cashiers | University of Missouri - Kansas City)

Missouri Resident: $245.60
Missouri Midwest Exchange: $368.40 (Kansas, Nebraska, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, or Wisconsin)
Missouri Non-Resident: $615.30

They stop assessing fees after you hit a certain number of credit hours (cap) in the semester, although you can keep enrolling in more hours past the cap (you just won’t be assessed fees for them).

I asked whether you get charged the undergraduate rate per credit hour for the undergraduate courses you take, and the medical school rate for the medical school courses (labeled MED and BMS only) you take, and I was told no. You get charged at the medical school amount per credit hour for ** ALL ** hours you take in the semester up to the cap, as long as you are in the medical program. Kinda sucks to be charged $1,180.80 per credit hour or even $590.40 per credit hr, for 4 hours of General Chemistry I. I guess I’ll be filling out a lot of private scholarships on Fastweb.

Also I almost forgot in the Biology BA degree plan, I pasted before where it says “B.A. Req.: General Education Requirement”, they come from here: [UMKC:</a> General Education Requirements for Bachelor’s Degrees in Biology](<a href=“http://www.umkc.edu/catalog/2008-09/undergraduate/pg35.html]UMKC:”>http://www.umkc.edu/catalog/2008-09/undergraduate/pg35.html)

In the Liberal Arts degree, the courses that are defined as Humanities and the courses defined as Social Sciences which are labeled as “B.A. Req.”: [UMKC:</a> Bachelor of Liberal Arts (B.L.A.)](<a href=“http://www.umkc.edu/catalog/2008-09/undergraduate/pg755.html]UMKC:”>http://www.umkc.edu/catalog/2008-09/undergraduate/pg755.html)

1724

wow thanks for the input

1725

Hey happy i talked to you a while ago and you said that i should take a computer science class in high school, i am currently a junior planning my senior year and I was wondering what type of computer science class i should take.

My school offers classes such as: intro to C++, AP java, programing, intro to ms office, Ap networking, and probably some others that i don’t know about (lol). Of the listed which would make me look the best as a good candidate for the program. Also which computer science course did you take in high school if any?

Regards
-Breaking Dawn

1726

when do people usually hear about interviews (for out of state)?

1727

I took AP Computer Science I, but really it can be anything. I took AP Computer Science I as we got a weighted GPA for it so that my rank would not be affected by taking a regular computer science class. For the purposes of UMKC it can be anything, but I think an AP class would look good, esp. since you’re in-state, few schools in Missouri offer AP Computer courses.

[Six-year</a> Program Application Requirements](<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/med_admissions/six-year_application.html]Six-year”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/med_admissions/six-year_application.html)
The website says it only has to be half a unit, so you don’t even have to take it the full year.

<a href=“http://www.umkc.edu/admissions/docs/2009MedApplication.pdf[/url]”>http://www.umkc.edu/admissions/docs/2009MedApplication.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
I think you already did this, but download this year’s application and see where your weaknesses are and work on them, and work on the essays so that by next year, you are WAY ahead of the game. What’s weird is on page 5 it says, “one-half unit of a computer science course is recommended by the medical school.” but then on the next page where you list your courses, it doesn’t have a category for you to put it. So what I would do is email Mary Morgenegg (<a href=“mailto:morgeneggm@umkc.edu”>morgeneggm@umkc.edu</a> or call at 816-235-1783) at UMKC and ask her whether that computer science course is still recommended and in what category would it be placed under on the “Report of Required High School Coursework” page. Unless AP Computer Science would go under “Science” but find out anyways.

1728

BreakingDawn,

Also in line with what RadRacer said, start looking through scholarship engines and seeing what scholarships you qualify for now as well for as a senior next year, so that you can send them all in mass when the time comes.

1729

I got into this program but I rejected it because it is pricey and is ranked one of the worst medical schools in the nation.

1730

Especially with how bad the economy is doing right now, UMKC is not worth the hefty price tag burden for a low quality medical school just to skip the MCAT. Those prices per credit hour in Radracer’s post (#1723) are ridiculous, esp. for out-of-state. They should charge undergraduate tuition for the undergraduate courses, which is compressed to barely 2 years. At least some of the others let you take the MCAT and you have the option to transfer if you want and certain programs like Northwestern, Brown, Baylor, Jefferson Medical College are well-known quality medical schools. Where did you end up going to shreynayluv4eva?

1731

I am one of those miscreant “MD-Onlys” who is currently a third year that stumbled upon this this thread and have been flipping through the pages and appreciating the back and forth. There is nothing inherently wrong with giving the good, the bad, or the ugly to any program. I don’t understand the tendency to kill the messenger, especially if they have been there and done that. I appreciate “Happy’s” contributions, especially since he’s been through the whole program. I also don’t get why some people who have decided against the program feel the need to continually disparage it. If you don’t want to go to UMKC, don’t go to UMKC. It’s pretty simple. Allow everyone else to make up their own minds and weigh the pros and cons.

I can’t comment on the six year program, as I had a BS when I entered UMKC SOM for HSF I in January of last year, but I would make some points:

I can say I got my degree from a top 50 undergrad school and did the usual pre-med course work (two Bios, Two English, Two Gen Chems, Two Physics, Two Organic Chems) as well as genetics, biochem, and cell bio and took the MCAT. Despite taking more hard science classes than the typical six year (and about 100 more college credits in general), I still felt completely blitzed during the entire semester (and still do). I wouldn’t say, and my GPA would bear out, that I had any advantage over the six year students in HSF for taking the regular pre-med load. I was a huge organic chemistry nerd (loved it), but honestly, of all the core sciences you take, it probably has the least applicability to the basic medical sciences.

As for the attrition rate, UMKC’s reports their attrition rate to the AAMC at year three (after the HSF series) at around 95% which is on par with most other medical schools. It is 20% from year 1. (I included the relevant citation and link from “Academic Medicine”. It would be a good read for anyone interested in coming here.) A 20% attrition rate for a medical school is atrocious and it is doubtful such a school would retain it’s accretidation. However, for pre-meds, it’s pretty good. When I started my traditional college experience, it seemed every single freshman wanted to be a Doctor. At the end of college, few of them went to medical school.

[ACADEMIC</a> MEDICINE - Abstract: Volume 82(4) April 2007 p 361-369 The University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Medicine: Thirty-Five Years of Experience with a Nontraditional Approach to Medical Education.](<a href=“The University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Medicine: T... : Academic Medicine”>The University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Medicine: T... : Academic Medicine)

If the link is broken, google: “The University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Medicine: Thirty-Five Years of Experience with a Nontraditional Approach to Medical Education.”

As far as I am in my education, I can’t comment on much more (to include step 1). I will say, if you are already concerned about residency, good for you for thinking so far in advance. Plunk down the $25 to buy the MSAR from the AAMC and look at the numbers. Every school has their match percentage. My MSAR is old but the match rates for UMKC for sugery for 2001-2003 graduates was 5%. The match rate for Wash U (a top medical school) for surgery was 6%. Than again, the match rate for UMKC for Anesthesiology was 4%. The match rate for Brown was 1%. The match rate for Creighton was 14%. If you are dying to be an Anesthesiologist, maybe you should consider Creighton. So clearly, it’s not all name recognition (at least for the 10 residencies covered by the MSAR (derm isn’t in there, sorry)).

All anecdotes aside, make your decision based on the best info you can find and try and weed out the bunk.

Good luck to you all.

Oh, one final note, I would NOT decide to go to UMKC to avoid the dreaded MCAT. Seriously, it’s just a standardized test, and if you really want to go to Med School, you’ll do fine on the MCAT. It’s not written in greek.

1732

about the mcat point: While it is nice to avoid that, I think a bigger calling to this program is 2 years less schooling

1733

2 caveats, however, to the 2 years less schooling:

<ol>
<li>
You’re assuming that you do not extend in the program, especially if its in the first 2 years, where you are set back one whole year and another year of medical school tuition. The school does have a ridiculous high rate of extension, if not attrition starting from Year 1.
</li>
<li>
As you are an out-of-state student, the level of obscenely high debt, as fully discussed by many in the previous posts, even higher than the most expensive private medical school is something that would highly negate saving 2 years. $321,554+ for a public undergrad/public school is insane, esp. when the average is $139,517. (Post 1720).
</li>
<li>
You assume that whichever field you choose even the highly competitive ones, you will match directly into them the first time, even though UMKC doesn’t seem to have a great track record when it comes to the number of people matching into competitive residencies like Rad Onc, Derm, Orthopedic Surgery, etc, if you look at the match lists (Post 1710)
</li>
</ol>

The Scunyon, is an MD-only so he doesn’t get the 2 years saved benefit. I think more important, which applicants probably forget as they’re so excited about the six year part (which I admit is enticing), is finding out whether the quality of the basic science education at UMKC is good when it comes to preparing students for their board exams. I posted the curriculums before and it seems to be highly compressed and you’re taking A LOT of credit hours each semester. According to babanana, if a majority of students are needing to shell out even more money for Kaplan commercial courses to adequately prepare for Step 1 (something their classes should be doing), when most medical schools don’t need to, that’s a problem.

1734

Maybe, as noted, I am on a regular four year track after obtaining an undergrad degree, so I will not save any time.

If you are in and out in six years, than you will have two more years of earning potential that will offset the tuition costs that everyone here is so worried about (unless you are independently wealthy or your parents are footing the bill, I believe the average medical school debt is in the 150K range now. With any professional degree, you are investing in yourself and your knowledge base is your “business”. If you went into business for yourself, you would have to take out loans to cover your costs and overhead too.).

At any rate, where ever you guys decide to go, do it for the right reasons (that should be more than dollars and cents). I came to UMKC because it was the right fit for me personally for a variety of reasons that I won’t go into. I had other options, be it acceptances, weight lists, or spring interviews at other allopathic and osteopathic schools, this was the best choice for me.

As for step 1, every year the school graduates close to 100 physicians which mean that the students are passing Step 1 and 2. If I fall in the 5% of students who don’t graduate past year three, than it is on me. It’s not UMKC’s fault that I didn’t fall within the 95%. It’s my fault. As for being able to match into the most competitive orthopedic residency program in the world out of UMKC, that was never my goal in medicine so it never factored into my decision process. If that is your goal, than you should find the medical school in the nation that has the best match rate for that specialty and go there. All of this information is available, you just need to do the legwork and find it. Case in point: I don’t know what % of UMKC utilize Kaplan to attack Step 1. Is that the full course? Is that just qbank (which a lot of students at all medical schools pay for)? etc.

As for the school’s ranking, that never concerned me either. IMO, UMKC gets slammed in the rankings simply because no one knows about the program. Those of you that come here will never go through the traditional application process, but that is where you start to research schools and find out the good ones (beyond the Ivys) and that process sticks in your mind as you move on in your career. You can’t even apply to UMKC through AMCAS and it’s not even advertised for traditional applicants on the MSAR. That’s absurd IMO. The school suffers from a PR problem of it’s own making. I didn’t even know they had an MD only program until I stumbled upon it on the internet. I think the school would help itself out tremendously if it took in about 40 MD-Only students every year to augment the class (not sure it could do it logistically). Again, just my $.02.

Since you are all about to embark upon a career in the sciences, you should be cautious of all anecdotes (to include mine), opinions, and cheer leading (good or bad). Take all opinions for a grain of salt and do the research to make the best decision for yourself based on a set of criteria that only you can weigh.

Good luck.

1735

According to Happy’s post (Post #1720), from the AMA, the average total amount of debt from med school graduates (both private/public med schools) is $139,517. As Happy said before, tuition ALONE for in-staters for all six years in the UMKC med program exceeds that number – $164,454 (and that’s w/o inflation and w/o other expenses). For out-of-state students it is ridiculously high at $321,554 - that’s enough money to go to an Ivy League undergrad and an Ivy League medical school!!

Yes, assuming you do not extend at all, you have 2 years earlier of earning potential, however, you’re also drowning in an enormous amount of debt MUCH MUCH higher than other schools. So 2 measly years is not going to offset $321,554 dollars of loans + accruing interest, when you could have had an overall decrease in total debt burden to begin with. As detailed with links by Happy, for an out-of-state tuition, the 50K+ tuition annually ends up costing more than even the most expensive private medical school. For in-state students, they’d be better off doing undergrad at Mizzou (University of Missouri-Columbia) and going to Mizzou’s medical school through the 4+4 route or through the Conley Scholars program or for out of staters: SLU Medical Scholars or WashU Medical University Honors program.

Mizzou Undergrad: [Mizzou</a> Undergraduate Admissions - Costs](<a href=“http://admissions.missouri.edu/costsAndFinancialAid/costs/index.php]Mizzou”>Costs – Mizzou Admissions)
Mizzou Medical School: [Types</a> of financial aid, School of Medicine Financial Aid Office, MU Health Sciences Center](<a href=“http://som.missouri.edu/financial/cost.shtml]Types”>http://som.missouri.edu/financial/cost.shtml)

Missouri in-state student at Mizzou undergrad/medical school (4+4) = (8,500 x 4) + (24,856 + 24,856 + 27,648 + 27,536) = $138,896 (vs. $164,454 at UMKC) not to mention Mizzou being higher ranked than UMKC.

1736

The reason UMKC does not participate in AMCAS is that UMKC is unusual in that it takes almost everyone as a six year student. No disrespect, but MD-onlys are only there to fill out vacant spots from attrition from the six year class to bring the number back up to 100 people at Year 3. If you look at their monthly newsletters esp. in June, 100 students do not graduate each year - it’s more like high 80s: [P.R.N</a>. Back Issues](<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/prnback.html]P.R.N”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/prnback.html)

2005: 77 graduates (<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/back_pdfs/Jun05_PRN.pdf[/url]”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/back_pdfs/Jun05_PRN.pdf&lt;/a&gt;)
2006: 88 graduates (<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/back_pdfs/June06_prn.pdf[/url]”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/back_pdfs/June06_prn.pdf&lt;/a&gt;)
2007: 86 graduates (<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/back_pdfs/June07_prn.pdf[/url]”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/back_pdfs/June07_prn.pdf&lt;/a&gt;)
2008: 78 graduates (<a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/back_pdfs/June08_prn.pdf[/url]”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/backissues/back_pdfs/June08_prn.pdf&lt;/a&gt;)

Thus with an original Year 1 class of 100 students (On page 2: <a href=“http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/November08_PRN.pdf[/url]”>http://www.med.umkc.edu/news/sections/prn/November08_PRN.pdf&lt;/a&gt;), with even the highest of 88% in the year 2006, is still a much lower graduation rate than for most medical schools (and the 88 number is taking into account those who come in as MD-onlys and those who extend from previous classes back one or two years).

I very much doubt that the program suffers from a “PR problem of it’s own making.” The school is not meant to cater to MD-only students. The school revolves around the six year program primarily which is very well advertised by the school through their brochures and websites. If there wasn’t such a huge attrition rate, they wouldn’t take any MD-only students at all. According to SDN, everybody does Kaplan Qbank, happy and babanana were talking about actual courses. Qbank is not a course. While many students do Qbank, typical medical students rarely take the month long courses that are usually taken by foreign medical graduates. Just thought I’d bring in the facts.

1737

how much do those classes count, and what is a good score on the step 1’s

1738

Rad,

Are you in the program here or have you graduated from it? Just curious as to what your interest in UMKC is at this point. I am all for pragmatism, but there seems to be a lot of people on this thread who have decided not to go to UMKC and are making it their personal mission to talk everyone else out of going there as well.

No offense on the MD-Only comment, the program has always existed to backfill 6-years who have failed out of their pre-med requirements (it used to be called advanced standing or placement). The number of MD-Onlys taken is minimal (usually less than 10) and it never pluses the class back up to 100. I think my class is currently in the mid-80’s after adding on the MD-onlys. The numbers you provided are still taking the high attrition rate of the year 1s and 2s into consideration. From year three, which is where UMKC reports it’s numbers, the rate is on par with any other medical school. This was all acknowledged in the quote I provided. However, the high attrition rate of years 1 and 2s is a consideration for anyone considering the six year program. It’s a high attrition number, but when you consider the fail rate for a normal pre-med isn’t really that alarming. I would submit that, with the few cases that leave the program and go the traditional route to med school, that many of students that struggle in years 1 and 2 were probably in it for the wrong reasons. Not to be a jackass, but I am sitting in one of their seats right now. My point was that the school should keep 40 MD-only slots and open them up to the AMCAS so the school could get some exposure to traditional applicants. I realize that isn’t going to happen, just making a point.

As for tuition and in state vs. OOS; this is why I advise people to buy an MSAR and look at the stats. UMKC is a state institution, it charges an enormous amount of money for OOS students as opposed to in-state. That’s not unique to UMKC. Most state schools charge a ridiculous tuition for OOS students, since the school is supported by the state tax payers. In fact, based on the state school, the restrictions and differences in being in state versus out of state could range from a huge tuition difference to not even being able to apply (i.e. LSU won’t let OOS applicants apply). If I would have gone to KU, which is about ten blocks from my house, but on the other side of the state line, I would be paying an enormous sum for tuition as well. Where UMKC is different is that the 6 year students have to pay Med School rates for pre-med classes. Again, it’s risk vs. reward, if you can crank out the program in six years than you will have two extra years of earning potential (As a business finance major who remembers about 1/10th of my instruction, I can tell you that does not simply equate to two extra years of pay in dollars, it’s significantly higher than that when you account for interest and various other factors of practicing two years earlier spread out over a 30+ year career).

As for Ivy League schools, and all private medical schools, they spread their tuition rates out evenly without regard to state of residence, since they receive no state tax dollars. I see your point on the price of an Ivy vs. UMKC as far as bang for tuition buck. However, it’s pretty hard to get into an ivy league school (or a California State School) so all things are not equal here. The average person applying to UMKC most likely would not be a successful candidate for an Ivy League school.

As for Mizzou, the Conley, and the Bryant scholarships, having had family members who have gone through the application process for both of those scholarships with varying levels of success, I would say that you shouldn’t bank on either, especially the Conley, to pay your way through Mizzou Med. The Conley slots are few and far between. I wouldn’t chose to go the Mizzou route simply assuming someone was going to hand me the Conley. That being said, Mizzou is a great Med School, but the fact is that most med students there are taking out loans just as most every other Med Student in the country is.

Neither I, nor you, can quantify how many UMKC students enroll in Kaplan courses. I can say from my anecdotal experience that it doesn’t seem like an extraordinary amount of students are, but I could be wrong. If you have anything other than your anecdotal experience that says that the average UMKC student has to enroll in a Kaplan program to pass Step 1, I’d like to see it so I can budget accordingly.

I am not trying to cheer lead for the school, there are a lot of things about the school that grate on my nerves, just pointing out some basic facts as someone who is in the unusual position of having applied through the conventional route with success and chose to go to UMKC for various reasons.

On that note, “various reasons” are as good of a reason to choose where you want to go to Medical School as money or strength of program. If you have the desire to be a Doctor, you will be successful anywhere. However, if you hate Kansas City, or you are from South Florida and go into convulsions when the weather drops below 40 degrees than, by all means to somewhere else. Picking your med school based out of fear (i.e. “I am afraid I might not do well on the MCAT” or “I might not be able to get into Med School otherwise”) are not good reasons to go anywhere.

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froggie2009, I’m currently in a combined program with George Washington School of Medicine, which I am content with. It is a highly ranked medical school and in the center of Washington DC, which are the two things that matter to me.

The Scunyon, I just wanted to tell others of my decision and reasoning for the first time; there is nothing wrong with ending up at UMKC. The MCAT is also something that may be an issue for some people, so I believe that you should also “allow everyone else to make up their own minds and weigh the pros and cons.”

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Shrey,

Nothing I said was directed at you. I haven’t read every single on of the 2K posts on here.

You obviously made a decision based on the pros and cons, so if the shoe fits and all.

Good luck to you.