Email ~2pm
Thanks man!
still no reply…bad news?
Have not been on this site since last summer…but have to say I’m loving this kind of dialogue and thoughts about the UMKC program. radracer good luck with your future schooling! Your discussion/comments and the glaring problems you discussed in an earlier post are on target and well thought out.
Has anyone here had there interview yet? How was it?
Does anyone know whether the reading and chemistry exam are considered for admission purposes?
the reading and chemistry test are not considered…
any tips for the interviews?
Thanks DON’TUndrEstimat!
It wasn’t without A LOT of research on my part through Google, Facebook, phone calls to student contacts, etc. Also thanks to HappytoGraduate for his advice on finding the information that’s pertinent and letting us reach our own conclusions. Just to be clear, he has been correct on everything, as I’ve double checked it and asked others myself.
I would say especially now with the way the economy is and the impending shrinking of availability of student loans, it was even more important for me to fully “vet” the program to see if I will be really getting what I am paying for. No matter how much money you pay - the quality of your education (esp. medical school education) is important. The program seemed to be more and more like a “Sarah Palin” program when I delved for info: Looks great superficially on the outside, but not that great once you research and find out more about the realities of the program.
I would feel this way whether I was out-of-state and had to pay $321,554 or if I was in-state and had to pay $164,454, for tuition and fees alone - not including inflation, see OldDominion’s post #1816, for the actual annual tuitions reported to the AAMC, which include inflation.
OldDominion couldn’t even get an answer about about Step 1 board scores from UMKC, yet all other combined programs were more than happy to give that information to him.(Post 1747, 1754, 1790).
As said before by another poster, students not getting to actually dissect human cadavers themselves to learn gross anatomy is important for applicants to know. The huge condensing of the curriculum to where Pharmacology is only 2 months is important for applicants to know. Most importantly - the ATTRITION from the program is very important to know, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. These as well as the numerous other points aren’t dinky things that don’t matter.
You had babanana who essentially didn’t like what HappytoGraduate said, yet ACTUALLY AGREED with him (Froggie’s post #1715) and then in my convo with The Scunyon who is an MD only student who did a 4 year degree and had to apply to osteopathic (D.O.) schools which tend to have lower average GPAs and MCATs in general, and the best he could get was UMKC. Which by the way, TheScunyon, certain fields are essentially closed to D.O. applicants getting an interview for allopathic residencies, mostly the competitive ones. It’s nothing against, D.O.s, it’s the truth.
Stellar students who enter the combined program, bc of a “guarantee”/“early assurance” are locked in and don’t have the option of taking the MCAT, without leaving the program and losing more years, than if they had just done 4+4.
I agree with HappytoGraduate when he said this:
Without proper funding, no medical school can achieve it’s objectives and goals for its students. Since the school has such poor funding from the state, they rely on student tuition & fees mainly - hence the lack of scholarships (or there are scholarships but 6 year med students are excluded). Thus, requiring students to take an exorbitant amount in loans.
[UMKC</a> wants cash infusion for med school - Kansas City Business Journal:](<a href=“http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2006/02/27/story6.html]UMKC”>http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2006/02/27/story6.html)
I got an interview to the UMKC program, as I had already sent my application before, but I declined it. I’m just glad I found out now rather than later.
HappytoGraduate has indeed been very helpful on this site. My family was not fortunate enough to see posts such as Happy’s or yours before going into the program. Very stressful situation whether it’s the student going through the program or the family making the financial commitment. Still hanging in but the regrets are great. It’s hard on students to criticize the school whether publicly or privately. Students really would like to see improvement in the program/school that would benefit them intellectually/academically. It’s hard mentally to spend all the years/money and have others view you as not up to the challenge because of where you went to school.
Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. These sites like CollegeConfidential and StudentDoctorNetwork, didn’t exist when I was applying, hence hearing anything else about the programs was difficult. When you are applying as a senior in high school to this program or any other one for that matter, as an 18 year old, it’s really hard to know what to ask, as there is so much that encompasses the medical school experience: quality and length of basic science instruction, required rotations, board exams, research opportunities available, etc. And that doesn’t even hit the undergraduate part of the program. At that age, you are so excited about the prospect of these programs (and the MCAT, for a high schooler seems like the biggest demon in the world) it’s hard to stay grounded and ask the important, tough questions before entering such a program. You hear scare/hysteria stories so often, you feel that combined degree programs are your only chance at getting into medical school, when in reality this is nowhere close to true. Look at the MDApplicants website.
There’s a reason why there aren’t combined degree programs at places that you’d expect like Harvard, Yale, etc. bc they want you to fully augment and take advantage of your undergraduate experience and they feel its not something that should be rushed through. When I applied, I also made the mistake of only asking one person in the program (he was in the first year of the program no less. lol) and someone who graduated from the program 10 years prior (a lot changed since then), as well as looking at the brochures/pamphlets, which magnify the 6 year aspect.
Most high schoolers, choose combined degree programs for the purpose of:
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Guaranteed admission to medical school - while this is nice, the caveat is that it may not be a good quality medical school or most importantly, it may not be a good fit for you. For example, there were quite a few of us who had difficulty learning concepts in the Anatomy block as students do not dissect themselves to learn the relevant anatomy (we looked at cadavers that were prosected by the professors). It’s also important to see if anything is left out of a program or compressed, esp. in the undergraduate curriculum. If a huge percentage are leaving the program or failing whether it’s the first few years or last few of the program, this is something to be concerned about. You are paying good, hard earned dollar bills (whether it’s loans, parents, or scholarships) for tuition and fees - so make sure the quality of the medical school is matching how much you are forking out. You should think whether you would still want to go to this medical school if the “guarantee” part was out of the picture.
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Not having to take the MCAT - for some programs you don’t have to take the MCAT at all, for others you have to take it but its just a formality, and for others you have to achieve a certain score in order to progress to the medical school. Once again, it’s one standardized exam, out of many you will take in your lifetime. If you’re entering a combined program bc you’re scared to death of taking the MCAT, then you really shouldn’t pursue medicine or really any professional vocation for that matter (sounds mean, but it’s true). All medical students, have to take the board licensing exams “The Steps”: USMLE Step 1, USMLE Step 2 Clinical Knowledge, USMLE Step 2 Clinical Skills, USMLE Step 3 (taken in residency).
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Finishing the undergraduate and M.D. degrees in less time (this would apply to 6 or 7 year programs, not 8 year programs obviously) - I’ll tell you now, although this may impress your relatives, your friends, and family, this should not be your sole reason to choose a program (or to go for medicine in the first place). Also many of these programs, once you enter, run year round without any summers off (even in the undergraduate portion) in order to fit requirements in within a small time period or are very difficult . For example in the UMKC program, for those entering this Fall, you get a total of about 2 years to complete your degree:
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Year 1: Fall semester 2009, Spring semester 2010
Year 2: Summer semester 2010, Fall semester 2010
Year 4: 1 semester in 2012-2013 (Summer, Fall, or Spring)
Residency program directors & faculty (who you interview with for residency positions in your field you wish to pursue) will find it interesting that you did a combined program, for a few seconds, and after that it won’t matter as you are being compared to other applicants just like everyone else. It’s the quality of and what you did through your education that matters - your board scores, did you participate in any research and with who?, did you publish anything?,etc. If you apply for a very competitive field that requires research, and you say that you weren’t able to bc the opportunity wasn’t available at your school or close by - you aren’t going to be given any slack.
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<li>[BA/MD</a> and BS/MD Programs FAQ - Student Doctor Network Forums](<a href=“BA/MD and BS/MD Programs FAQ | Student Doctor Network”>BA/MD and BS/MD Programs FAQ | Student Doctor Network)</li>
<li>[AAMC:</a> Applying to Medical School: Thirty-One Questions I Wish I Had Asked](<a href=“http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/31questions.htm]AAMC:”>http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/about/31questions.htm)</li>
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No matter what you decide to do, make sure you get all the information you possibly can about any program. This is a major decision that should NOT be taken lightly, both from a mental, financial, and time standpoint, for you or your family.
For those who are worrying about receiving interview notification: RELAX. I was on the phone with a representative yesterday and they are not yet done considering all applications.
Thanks CocaCola! Do you know when they will be done by?
is it true UMKC only mostly accepts you if one or both of your parents are doctors?. Do most of the current students have a doctor parent?.
They don’t dissect cadavers?
Is UMKC the only medical school that doesn’t have its students dissect the cadavers?
az1698: I don’t have a specific date, but I would give it another two or three weeks, just to be sure.
“is it true UMKC only mostly accepts you if one or both of your parents are doctors?. Do most of the current students have a doctor parent?.”
Sorry kayveelb, I needed that laugh!!! Thank you!!! ROTFLMAO!!!
No, your parental occupations does not in any way influence your acceptance or rejection. I know, bc NEITHER of my parents are doctors (thank god), which I must admit helped keep me grounded during times of stress, not to mention, I knew, with regards to becoming a doctor, that I was doing this for myself and not for parental love issues.
You are not seen as less likely to complete the program because one of your parents isn’t a doctor. There are people with parents who were doctors, who quit the program or failed out of the program.
If anything, on your application when they see your parents are doctors, they will want to ascertain to the best of their ability through the interview, whether you are entering the UMKC program bc you were forced to by your parents, or whether you really want to enter the program. Same for “non-doctor” parents as well, but naturally an interviewer who sees that a parent is in the field that an applicant is going for, will be noticed and thus even more important for the interviewer to get a sense of your motives not only for pursuing medicine in the first place, but on top of that your ability to enter and be successful in a rigorous, year-round, condensed, and accelerated combined Baccalaureate/MD program.
As part of the required curriculum, starting in Spring Semester of Year 2, Gross Anatomy is taught as part of the Human Structure Function (HSF) Series, which also includes Physiology, Histology, and Embryology.
Students, themselves, do not dissect cadavers to learn the relevant anatomy, as well as to appreciate the 3D perspective and spatial orientation. There are maybe 3 prosected cadavers (meaning the professors have previously dissected them already), which students can “take a look” at on designated “lab” days, which are about once every two weeks.
If a student wishes to dissect, he/she must use 2 elective months in Year 4 for two electives, both 1 month in length, one called Regional Anatomy of the Thorax and Abdomen (offered the month of September) and another course called Regional Anatomy of the Head & Neck (offered the month of February), but there are several caveats:
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There are a limited number of seats, 12 for Head/Neck and 28 for Thorax/Abdomen. Thus, they would not be able to accomodate the entire Year 4 medical school class that had previously taken HSF, if everyone wanted to take it. Also, Year 5s and Year 6s are also able to enroll in those courses, which will probably be taken advantage of by those that will be applying for surgical residencies.
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Those two electives are each only taught one month during the year, so if you have another requirement scheduled like Behavioral Science, Family Medicine, Docent Rotation (which you have to do with your Docent team), or you have to take your campus semester during that period, you can not enroll in the course.
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There is no Upper Limb, Lower Limb, Pelvis & Perineum, or Back Dissection Course.
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To be fair, there are other med schools that use prosections instead of dissections including UCSF. After having done anatomy, I actually prefer prosection to dissection. We spend 2 1/2 hours cutting out the fat and everything that we actually learn can be taught in 20 minutes. I can see how someone who enjoys the process would feel left out but for the rest of us, I think a prosection would do just fine.
And you would be wrong Norcalguy. While it may have worked for you just fine, it obviously was not for the majority of medical students as per the article below.
<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/preprofessional/health/reading_group/continue_teaching_by_dissection.pdf[/url]”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/preprofessional/health/reading_group/continue_teaching_by_dissection.pdf</a>
UMKC did not even have prosected cadavers in the past (students used an atlas), so there was no option to return to dissection, in the case of UMKC.